Paths of Civilization

[] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
No explanation needed, one of our most important traits.

[] [Inv] Highland Kingdom
[] [Inv] Trelli
[] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[] [Inv] Metal Workers
[] [Inv] Storm Wolves
No cost to inviting, so gut instinct is to invite everyone. Will probably change later.

[] No
Plan on voting for Heroic Admin leader, so he should take care of Redshore

[] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))
Better in every way that counts than the mediocre candidate, and Yeyena deserves her rest. He should also nip the Redshore problem in the bud, and will likely help innovate ways to manage our new economy.

[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance

Yes, I can hear happy weasel squealing from somewhere southeast of me.

[X] [Inv] Highland Kingdom

[X] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)

*with grumbling*

[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))

Of course, if duty weren't everything to him

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Some of the older families also wouldn't like him being king, seeing him as having risen from an unimportant house far too quickly

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Excellent qualifications!

[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))
[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] [Inv] Highland Kingdom
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves

[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance

Good stuff

[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves

I doubt they all come but little harm in inviting them that I can see, also interesting that the metal workers and the Storm wolves are two distinct polities still, seems they didn't get taken over?

[X] No
[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))

These two I feel have to go together, it's a pretty brutal choice as if he lives long enough we probably don't get to fight before the CB expires, but the other choices are just that bad.

It's not all downside though, when he takes control he'll probably do the enforce justice action that our civ has been begging for but the thread will never vote for. Plus a bunch of other cool stuff I imagine, he's a hero after all.

We have a major corruption issue. Hertythn is God's gift to us.

*looks up*

Well I said I was gonna.


Thus:



Why no invite HK? Opportunity is there to avoid a massive issue deciding how to go about attacking them next turn.

And hey they may decline! Then we have extra reasons!


[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance

[X] [Inv] Highland Kingdom
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves


[X] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)


[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))


I'm just going to go fuck it here on the Free City. Maybe we'll get something or not. It synergizes well with this Admin guy. We need new blood pretty regularly.

BungieONI said:

I'm just going to go fuck it here on the Free City. Maybe we'll get something or not. It synergizes well with this Admin guy. We need new blood pretty regularly.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

It doesn't synergise with him at all. It takes the city out of his jurisdiction and he badly needs it if he wants to root out the corruption there.

Patricians won't be happy, but we do need to make "Genuinely talented people should be able to rise" and "The best man for the job should be King, and you shouldn't take a substandard candidate just because reasons"

They're probably going to tantrum to introduce the new Faction mechanic.

Honestly, I hope we get a chance to follow the money and start actually fucking unwinding the Shadow King nonsense, if only so we can actually start getting people who can into Intrigue.

[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
[X] No
[X] [King] Kinda mediocre (Mediocre Admin, Diplo, and Martial)

[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] No
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
[X] [King] Kinda mediocre (Mediocre Admin, Diplo, and Martial)

Fuck no to giving up control of the city when we learn there's corruption endemic. You'll get yours yet, Shadow Broker.
This is the war vote, don't invite the Highlanders and don't pick the Admin king who isn't going to go to war.

If you're fine letting the HK live, then go ahead and invite them and take the admin king.

[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
[X] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)

@Academia Nut how did we lose Stability? We were above 3?

I mean...inviting HK does not guarantee that they will accept, and does not preclude us from warring them. Why not get extra Diplo if they somehow agree, while also scaring them with our size?
Greek states were participating in Olympics despite often warring each other, so it's not like there is an obligatory non-agression pact everyone agrees to. And inviting literally everyone would make us into cool weird Ymaryn, foster relationships and generally be a damn cool move.

What do we lose from inviting them?

10ebbor10 said:

Before everyone jumps on the bandwagon, remember that Cosmopolitan Acceptance got changed. It now inflicts temp Econ damage every time we take refugees. The last CA tree upgrade forced us to take more refugees. If that trend continues, it could very well be dangerous.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

We've got Iron, Sacred Warding and Hatvalley from it. It is still worth it.

Alectai said:

Patricians won't be happy, but we do need to make "Genuinely talented people should be able to rise" and "The best man for the job should be King, and you shouldn't take a substandard candidate just because reasons"

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yes, this is a big reason to take Admin hero: because patricians would like him to not become king. We should promote social mobility and meritocracy.

Don't invite the Thunder Horse and the Swamp People pick one they hate each other

edit just remembered that the metal workers and the Storm Wolves Hate each other too

"Hertythyn nodded at that and said, "There have been requests for Redshore to have more freedom in dealing with some of its issues?"

"There have, although we think that some of them may grow worse," the first investigator reported.

"Or perhaps the Shadow King will reveal himself if he is allowed to have the city as his personal fief in law as well as fact," the third man said, half-sarcastically and half out of paranoia.

"There are certainly administrative issues at play either way," Hertythyn said, waving the longstanding argument away."

So from this, I'm thinking that a Free City is basically letting some shadier elements of our system go by while in return allowing the city to manage it's own issues.
I still think it's better not to make Redshore a Free City while we have Admin King, if only because he can probably solve many of it's current problems, but I can also see the argument for creating the Free City under his watch so that we can avoid the obvious pitfalls.

[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance

[X] [Inv] Highland Kingdom
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves

[X] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)

[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))

[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] [Inv] Highland Kingdom
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
[X] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)
[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))

[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves

Invite everyone but the HK and TH to show that we are still pissed that they dared to war with us maybe next games.

[X] No
[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))

To whoever the shadow king is we will search for you, we will find you and we will kill you.

[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] [Inv] Highland Kingdom
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)
[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))

[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
[X] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)
[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))

Raichu1972 said:

"Hertythyn nodded at that and said, "There have been requests for Redshore to have more freedom in dealing with some of its issues?"

"There have, although we think that some of them may grow worse," the first investigator reported.

"Or perhaps the Shadow King will reveal himself if he is allowed to have the city as his personal fief in law as well as fact," the third man said, half-sarcastically and half out of paranoia.

"There are certainly administrative issues at play either way," Hertythyn said, waving the longstanding argument away."

So from this, I'm thinking that a Free City is basically letting some shadier elements of our system go by while in return allowing the city to manage it's own issues.
I still think it's better not to make Redshore a Free City while we have Admin King, if only because he can probably solve many of it's current problems, but I can also see the argument for creating the Free City under his watch so that we can avoid the obvious pitfalls.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I'm actually thinking that in some ways saying yes will let him notice things easier. People becoming less cautious for example?

But that's speculation.

My most sturdy opinion based on the text is that Admin Guy will solve some of it regardless.

[] [WB] Gain a free random value slot

Always good.

[] [WB] Randomly upgrade a value

Hmm, always good too but...

[] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance

Ahaha hell YES. We were looking for this!

[] [WB] Gain a free Gymnasium in Redshore

Gym battles?!
I'm pretty sure we can build those normally later

[] [WB] Gain a free Temple at Holy Sea

We can build this on our own

Choose Who to Invite (Great Powers Participating, no cost to extend invitation), choose as many as desired
Cool, Great Powers playing means everyone wants in.

[] [Inv] Highland Kingdom

This is iffy, if we intend on declaring war on them then we shouldn't.
If we want to give them a final chance to redeem themselves, we should.

[] [Inv] Trelli

Let them come and see.
Too far to fight effectively for now.

[] [Inv] Thunder Horse

Too far to fight effectively. The longer they don't fight, the better.

[] [Inv] Swamp Folk

Too far to fight effectively. The longer they don't fight, the better.

[] [Inv] Metal Workers

We've had a good history together, so why not?

[] [Inv] Storm Wolves

Impress the nomads too!

Make Redshore a free city?
[] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)
[] No

Personal preference thing here. I feel it's fine as a testbed, but it depends on what the thread prefers.
Corruption however is bad and needs hero stompy

The next king would be
[] [King] Kinda mediocre (Mediocre Admin, Diplo, and Martial)

Probably not happening.

[] [King] Yenyna (Genius Martial, Poor Admin, Awful Diplomacy, Wildcard Mystic; dangerously unpredictable)

Even if we were fighting the HK, she's not a good choice when we have an event we're inviting a lot of nations to.
Let her have her rest.

[] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))

I'm okay with this.
Heroic Admin never goes wrong.

[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] [Inv] Highland Kingdom
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
[X] No
[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))

I'll give them a chance. But no more than a chance.
No problems with leaving the HK off the invite list if nobody else wants though.

[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] [Inv] Highland Kingdom
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
[X] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)
[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))

Spectrum said:

Fuck no to giving up control of the city when we learn there's corruption endemic. You'll get yours yet, Shadow Broker.
This is the war vote, don't invite the Highlanders and don't pick the Admin king who isn't going to go to war.

If you're fine letting the HK live, then go ahead and invite them and take the admin king.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

How does inviting HK preclude us from warring them? I do not see "mandatory non-agression pact" anywhere within description, and I do not remember Olympics forcing greek states into long periods of peace either.

[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
[X] No
[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))