Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest
- Thread starter Charcolt
- Start date
- Location
- Underground
[] Plan Reap What You Sew.
[] Suggest that in light of his injuries, Jaime Lannister be kept in Stannis's custody until he recovers under the treatment of a maester, after which, he will be given a choice. To serve out the rest of his life as a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch, where he might one day regain a semblance of honor, or to march forward and be greeted with the headman's axe as justice for his many, many crimes.
[] Randyll Tarly is to be raised up as Lord Paramount of the Mander, Lord of Highgarden, and Warden of the South.
[] Garth Hightower is to be given leave to besiege and sack any Reachlords that do not bow, whose lands shall then be divided up amongst royalist second sons and claimants. House Tyrell is to be stripped of all their lands and titles. The men of the main branch of House Tyrell shall either take the Black, join the Citadel, swear to the Sept, or they shall soon meet the Stranger themselves. Margaery is to be married to Dickon Tarly to cement Randyll's rule. The cadet branch will be allowed to keep their lands and will be treated as other houses that sided with Renly (see below) assuming they swear loyalty.
[] Treasonous lords: One time offer, bend the knee and pledge loyalty to King Stannis. They will be expected to bring their forces to the fold, of course. The treasonous houses will be required to supply the relief efforts for the refugees of King's Landing. Increased support to the Watch will also be expected in the future. Houses that remained with Renly until the end will be expected to provide a greater share than those that did not, and hostages will also be required of them.
-[] The alternative is to take the Black or face the axe. Their lands will be divided amongst second sons and hedge knights of loyal houses.
[] Part of House Redwynes 'greater share' will be ships to replace the losses the Royal Fleet has suffered.
[] Lower level knights will be offered a chance to redeem themselves if they join with the Royalist forces, but they can always take the Black or the axe if they have a problem with that.
[] The sell sword Bronn is to be knighted and given the hand of Brienne of Tarth for slaying Loras Tyrell in open combat. (If this is accepted. I just like the idea of Loras doing a bunch of fancy sword twirling and then Bronn just shivs him when he's over extended.)
[] Besides any lands that are seized, loyal lords and knights will be rewarded with fair shares of the ransoms from the captured treasonous lords.
[] The lands of the Reach along the Roseroad between the middle and south arms of the Mander river are to be considered part of the Crownlands. The current lords will remain, assuming they were already loyal or have bent the knee. They will simply give direct fealty to the King rather than the Lord Paramount of the Mander.
Alright, here's the current version of the plan. The cadet branch of House Tyrell will be treated as other houses.
I'm still not sure about the change in hands of lands along the Roseroad from the Reach to the Crownlands. Or how smooth a transition that would be. Would that change any lord's territory in a serious way, @Charcolt ?
I figure expecting to aid the refugees is effectively an increase in taxes through grain and other supplies. I slipped in a bit about expected support to the Watch in the future.
I'm still considering if Tarly should get Highgarden. It seems like too much land and power to put in one lord's hands. The alternatives being to give it to the Tyrell branch (not likely) or to split up the lands of Highgarden and give it too loyal houses and knights.
Regardless of any tweaks I may yet make to the plan this is the one that isn't overly harsh and gets the punishments and rewards done with so we can then focus on the fighting that still has to be done, with the Reach and Stormlands power added to ours.
Guys... plan 'War, what is it good for' is basically:
Stannis: *Asks Robb to decide punishments for them.*
Robb: Naw, we'll do that later for most of them. let's talk strategy instead.
Stannis: All I asked for was punishments and rewards right now.
Robb: Nope.
It doesn't fully cover what the vote actually asks for.
And what are we supposed to do, just hang onto the lords of the Reach and the Stormlords in the meantime as prisoners to keep them in line? Because letting them loose while saying 'your punishment will come later' doesn't seem likely to inspire them to stay loyal.
Even if you put them all the armies under Tarly (with their lords kept prisoner in the meantime, by the by) we'd have a shortage of nobility to command all those levies.
My plan at least gets the punishment over and done with. It isn't overly harsh, and it requires hostages for the houses that were most loyal to Renly as an added measure to keep them in line.
[] Suggest that in light of his injuries, Jaime Lannister be kept in Stannis's custody until he recovers under the treatment of a maester, after which, he will be given a choice. To serve out the rest of his life as a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch, where he might one day regain a semblance of honor, or to march forward and be greeted with the headman's axe as justice for his many, many crimes.
[] Randyll Tarly is to be raised up as Lord Paramount of the Mander, Lord of Highgarden, and Warden of the South.
[] Garth Hightower is to be given leave to besiege and sack any Reachlords that do not bow, whose lands shall then be divided up amongst royalist second sons and claimants. House Tyrell is to be stripped of all their lands and titles. The men of the main branch of House Tyrell shall either take the Black, join the Citadel, swear to the Sept, or they shall soon meet the Stranger themselves. Margaery is to be married to Dickon Tarly to cement Randyll's rule. The cadet branch will be allowed to keep their lands and will be treated as other houses that sided with Renly (see below) assuming they swear loyalty.
[] Treasonous lords: One time offer, bend the knee and pledge loyalty to King Stannis. They will be expected to bring their forces to the fold, of course. The treasonous houses will be required to supply the relief efforts for the refugees of King's Landing. Increased support to the Watch will also be expected in the future. Houses that remained with Renly until the end will be expected to provide a greater share than those that did not, and hostages will also be required of them.
-[] The alternative is to take the Black or face the axe. Their lands will be divided amongst second sons and hedge knights of loyal houses.
[] Part of House Redwynes 'greater share' will be ships to replace the losses the Royal Fleet has suffered.
[] Lower level knights will be offered a chance to redeem themselves if they join with the Royalist forces, but they can always take the Black or the axe if they have a problem with that.
[] The sell sword Bronn is to be knighted and given the hand of Brienne of Tarth for slaying Loras Tyrell in open combat. (If this is accepted. I just like the idea of Loras doing a bunch of fancy sword twirling and then Bronn just shivs him when he's over extended.)
[] Besides any lands that are seized, loyal lords and knights will be rewarded with fair shares of the ransoms from the captured treasonous lords.
[] The lands of the Reach along the Roseroad between the middle and south arms of the Mander river are to be considered part of the Crownlands. The current lords will remain, assuming they were already loyal or have bent the knee. They will simply give direct fealty to the King rather than the Lord Paramount of the Mander.
Alright, here's the current version of the plan. The cadet branch of House Tyrell will be treated as other houses.
I'm still not sure about the change in hands of lands along the Roseroad from the Reach to the Crownlands. Or how smooth a transition that would be. Would that change any lord's territory in a serious way, @Charcolt ?
I figure expecting to aid the refugees is effectively an increase in taxes through grain and other supplies. I slipped in a bit about expected support to the Watch in the future.
I'm still considering if Tarly should get Highgarden. It seems like too much land and power to put in one lord's hands. The alternatives being to give it to the Tyrell branch (not likely) or to split up the lands of Highgarden and give it too loyal houses and knights.
Regardless of any tweaks I may yet make to the plan this is the one that isn't overly harsh and gets the punishments and rewards done with so we can then focus on the fighting that still has to be done, with the Reach and Stormlands power added to ours.
Guys... plan 'War, what is it good for' is basically:
Stannis: *Asks Robb to decide punishments for them.*
Robb: Naw, we'll do that later for most of them. let's talk strategy instead.
Stannis: All I asked for was punishments and rewards right now.
Robb: Nope.
It doesn't fully cover what the vote actually asks for.
And what are we supposed to do, just hang onto the lords of the Reach and the Stormlords in the meantime as prisoners to keep them in line? Because letting them loose while saying 'your punishment will come later' doesn't seem likely to inspire them to stay loyal.
Even if you put them all the armies under Tarly (with their lords kept prisoner in the meantime, by the by) we'd have a shortage of nobility to command all those levies.
My plan at least gets the punishment over and done with. It isn't overly harsh, and it requires hostages for the houses that were most loyal to Renly as an added measure to keep them in line.
- Location
- Surabaya, Indonesia
@Arcvalons Maidenpool is ALREADY part of the Riverlands, and Harrenhal is a cursed ruin. It's better to stick with Storm's End or Dragonstone as temporary capital until King's Landing is rebuild as Godsgrief.
- Location
- Surabaya, Indonesia
[X] Plan Reap What You Sew.
I'm actually fine with letting Tarly be powerful with him having Highgarden and Horn Hill. If he has no other son, Dickon's firstborn will inherit Highgarden and the LP of the Reach position while the second son gets Horn Hill. This is fine, he did perform admirably by being the cause of desertion among Renly's men and unlike the cowardly Florents he answer our call. Fair is fair after all. Plus we're taking that eastern part of the Reach bordering Crownlands and Stormlands anyway, so we're already reducing their power.
I'm actually fine with letting Tarly be powerful with him having Highgarden and Horn Hill. If he has no other son, Dickon's firstborn will inherit Highgarden and the LP of the Reach position while the second son gets Horn Hill. This is fine, he did perform admirably by being the cause of desertion among Renly's men and unlike the cowardly Florents he answer our call. Fair is fair after all. Plus we're taking that eastern part of the Reach bordering Crownlands and Stormlands anyway, so we're already reducing their power.
- Location
- Underground
Plan 'War, what is it good for' actually does the same thing in regards to Highgarden right now; giving it to Tarly.
But that is an option I'm considering...splitting up Highgarden's lands, I mean. I've heard arguments for both for that and giving it to Tarly.
It is true that they would split control within a generation or two.
That part I'm unsure of...I don't want it to be stripping any lands from the lords that currently rule them. All it should be is a change from their LP being the lord of the Mander to the King. At least that's what I'm going for, but I'm not sure about the borders.
'War, what is it good for' leaves the rest of the Reach and Stormlands in a sort of limbo, at least as far as their lords go.
It also doesn't provide much reward for most of the houses that were loyal.
- Location
- Pacific NW
[x] Plan Reap What You Sew
Yeah spudman, the land between the arms of the Mander is just switching direct fealty to the King rather than the LP. It also has the advantage of trimming the influence that Highgarden can claim.
Yeah spudman, the land between the arms of the Mander is just switching direct fealty to the King rather than the LP. It also has the advantage of trimming the influence that Highgarden can claim.
- Location
- Underground
I'd really like to...but the Crown is still heavily in debt as well. I could put in a caveat that takes the debt into consideration.
Davos getting Rainwood added.
Edit:
Besides adding Davos as a part of the plan, I edited this part a bit.
[] Besides any lands that are seized, loyal lords and knights will be rewarded with fair shares of the ransoms from the captured treasonous lords. Those lords that were loyal to the true King all along can also expect lower taxes for at least a bit. The latter within reason, since the Crown is in debt and King's Landing will need to be rebuilt.
In other words, do what we can. But we can't go nuts.
But barring that...which may be subject to change. I think that about does it and the plan is all set.
Unless people feel strongly about Highgarden's lands being split up. It WOULD be a good reward for loyal lords and knights.
But that and tax breaks aside...yeah, that's pretty much my plan. Some penalties but nothing too harsh (except for the main line Tyrells), so long as they bend the knee. And it brings the Stormlands and Reach back into the fold. Make sure to vote if you haven't already.
Hmm...I think requiring all the captured lords to take the Black is overly harsh. But it seems like an all or nothing deal (those that choose to not bend the knee aside).
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I don't think this is a good idea. Stannis has given Robb the authority to decide what to do about the Houses of the Reach and Stormlands, no more. If we suddenly start authorizing tax breaks for half the realm, conveniently the half loyal to us, Stannis may well be understandably upset. At the very least, it's wildly presumptuous on Robb's part.
Camiadus
The Lion in The Sky
- Location
- The Holy Land
Hmm, some points here that I want to address.
I've made some edits to my plan, in part because you've raised some valid points, and because I posted it when I was tired so I didn't think everything through. I did overlook the fact that Stannis wanted us to mainly focus on sorting out the punishments first and foremost, and any strategy deriving from that secondly. The two are intertwined however, simply just because of the situation. I do think you're making several oversights of your own here however.
The largest and most glaring one is forgetting that Stannis hates the Tyrells. Root, branch, and stem. Without the Tyrells whispering in his ear, Stannis would still have a living brother. First they tried to starve him and Renly to death while taunting and mocking them for a year, and now, years after Stannis nearly wasted away to death and has been forced to suffer indignity after indignity, they turned his own brother against him? No. The Tyrells will be Stannis's Reynes. They are fortunate he is a just man, and not a vengeful one like Tywin.
As for the other lords...something people seem to be forgetting is that there was no law, no duty, no obligation, that the Tyrells, the Reach, or the Stormlands were adhering to. This isn't like Robert's Rebellion, where they chose to be loyal to their highest suzerain lord. Not even close. By every single Westerosi law, Stannis was the lawful King. Period. The only thing stopping even more drastic punishments is the fact there is currently a two front war to fight, and the largest fucking disaster in the history of Westeros since the Long Night.
If people are concerned with Tarly's lands being to large, force him to pick. He's already Lord Paramount of the Mander and Warden of the South. Have him either choose Highgarden or Horn Hill, or have him appoint a castellan that Stannis approves of to rule over one of them until he has another son who comes of age to inherit. I'd love to do something to Hightower, but they're honestly too powerful to fuck with, and they had marriage ties to the Tyrells as an excuse.
However...most Houses aren't even a fraction as powerful as the Hightowers. The ones that stayed with Renly to the end? Unland them. One and all. They are traitors and lawbreakers, they may either take the oaths of a Black Brother if they are men, or swear to the Silent Sisters if they are women. Also, I think we're forgetting how ungodly rich the Lannisters are. If we ever want the money necessary to actually rebuild King's Landing within the next decade, let alone pay off the debt, we'll need to force them to pay up. We should also think about taking hostages, sorry, "wards" from not only the Lannisters, but the Westerlands in general, to be sure of their obedience.
Lastly, uh, the only realm that has ever supported the Night's Watch is the North. For everybody else it's either considered a less lethal exile, a way to escape certain death, or a means to be rid of an unwanted member of one's family. Anyways, with Ned in the North and it not being bled dry in the war, he should have the situation handled. The Watch will be receiving several dozen new men at the very least, anything more than that is really going to be business between Joer, Ned, and maybe Stannis.
[x] Plan: War, What Is It Good For 2.0
[] In light of his injuries, Jaime Lannister will be kept in Stannis's custody until he recovers under the treatment of a maester, after which, he will be given a choice. To serve out the rest of his life as a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch, where he might one day regain a semblance of honor, or to march forward and be greeted with the headman's axe as justice for his many, many crimes.
-[] A hostage from each Westerland house that rose for the Lannisters is to be surrendered to Stannis. They shall also pay a heavy tax so as to aid with the hastening of rebuilding King's Landing, the lion's share being paid from the mines of Casterly Rock.
[] Randyll Tarly is to be raised up as Lord Paramount of the Mander and Warden of the South. In standing with his new duties, he will march south to meet the Dornish host with an army made of both Reachmen and Stormlanders. Beric Dondarrion shall go with him. Ravens are to be sent out that any lord wishing to profess loyalty in the Stormlands and Reach shall join a part of their levy to his host.
-[] Randyll is also to either choose which lands he shall keep, his ancestral home of Horn Hill, or his new demesne of Highgarden. If he wishes to keep both within his House, he must forswear the governance of one to a castellan of Stannis's choosing, until such time as a second son is of age to rule them.
[] Garth Hightower is to be given leave to besiege and sack any Reachlords that do not bow, whose lands shall then be divided up amongst royalist second sons and claimants. House Tyrell is to be stripped of all their lands and titles. The men of House Tyrell shall either take the Black, join the Citadel if they are infirm, or they shall soon meet the Stranger themselves. Margaery is to be married to Dickon Tarly to cement Randyll's rule. Any other women are to take their vows as Silent Sisters, or to be married off if they are of age and unwed.
-[] Lords that did not strike their banners for Stannis shall be unlanded one and all. They are lawbreakers and traitors. There was no legal right in all of Westeros Renly had when he laid claim to the Iron Throne. Every single one of them knew this. No mercy. Every able bodied man of these houses are to swear to the Night's Watch, wear a chain of the Citadel if they are old or infirm, or face the axe. The women and girls are to be dolled out for marriages and claims if suitable, and take the vow of the Silent Sisters if not. Desmera Redwyne, as heir of the Arbor, is to become a hostage at the court of Stannis for the foreseeable future.
-[] The former lands of House Peake are to be given to Marlon Manderly, the ancestral lands of the Manderly's, and that of their rivals, returned to them at long last, after a thousand years of loyal, unfailing service. He should be wed to a relation of Randyll Tarly to bind him to his new liege lord.
[] A mixed host of loyal Crownlanders and Rivermen is to remain at the ruins of King's Landing, under the command of Davos Seaworth, who shall be given the Lordship of Rainwood, to begin efforts to rebuild and to maintain order. The remaining host is to march east with Stannis to confront and deal with this Targaryen pretender once and for all.
-[] The Blackfish is to be given command of a group of outriders and scouts to gain as much information as possible on the Targaryen pretender forces.
-[] Davos shall also hold hostages at his camp, only to be released if three condition are met: One, an oath of fealty to Stannis is given by the head of their House. Two: A heavy ransom is paid. Three: Supplies for the survivors of King's Landing are delivered.
[] The lands along the Roseroad, between the middle and south arms of the Mander, are to be taken for the Crownlands. The current lords, if they had deserted Renly, shall retain their lands. They shall instead swear directly to Stannis, and be harshly taxed to supply King's Landing. The rest of the Reach shall also be required to pay a greater share of wealth as justice served for their lawbreaking, and to feed the homeless masses of King's Landing.
-[] Also, the Stormlands and the Crownlands shall be formally merged together, as Stannis is the only rightful ruler of either of these lands still alive. Any House in the Stormlands that Stannis deems disloyal will be treated the same as those that stood by Renly to the bitter end.
[] The sell sword Bronn is to be knighted and given the hand of Brienne of Tarth for slaying Loras Tyrell in open combat. This means he will one day become Lord of Tarth. (If this is accepted. I just like the idea of Loras doing a bunch of fancy sword twirling and then Bronn just shivs him when he's over extended.)
Edit: Made a change to reward the Manderly's, since I realized that the Peake's stuck with Renly till the end. So that means that House Manderly, for being kickass bros, get to have their ancient family lands, with a side helping of their historical rival's lands, as a very well earned reward.
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- Location
- Underground
Wow...harsh.
But I like it.
It unlands the houses that stayed with Renly until the end, which actually isn't all that many...and brings the rest to heel, requires hostages, and makes sure they pay in some fashion.
I missed the bit about Desmera Redwyne at first. Good thing to keep her as hostage. We could certainly use the Redwyne's fleet right now with the Ironscum out and about.
I'm tempted to change my plan to a copy of this, but that seems unfair to those that voted for my previous plan.
[x] Plan: War, What Is It Good For 2.0
But I like it.
It unlands the houses that stayed with Renly until the end, which actually isn't all that many...and brings the rest to heel, requires hostages, and makes sure they pay in some fashion.
I missed the bit about Desmera Redwyne at first. Good thing to keep her as hostage. We could certainly use the Redwyne's fleet right now with the Ironscum out and about.
I'm tempted to change my plan to a copy of this, but that seems unfair to those that voted for my previous plan.
[x] Plan: War, What Is It Good For 2.0
- Location
- Asia
Shapeless Phobos
Filthy Casual
[x] Plan: War, What Is It Good For 2.0
- Location
- Pacific NW
[x] Plan: War, What Is It Good For 2.0
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan: War, What Is It Good For 2.0
- Location
- Tarn-Vedra
Changing my vote to:
[X] Plan: War, What Is It Good For 2.0
[X] Plan: War, What Is It Good For 2.0
- Location
- The Holiest of Cities
Not sure I need to change my vote for this, but as I stand by my previous words ("Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.") and I like these changes to the plan, as well as to be certain:
[X] Plan: War, What Is It Good For 2.0
@Camiadus, I would suggest marrying Desmera Redwyne to one of Davos's sons - we want someone with seafaring experience to be in charge of the Redwyne Fleet, and Davos's sons are incredibly loyal as well as having experience.
[X] Plan: War, What Is It Good For 2.0
@Camiadus, I would suggest marrying Desmera Redwyne to one of Davos's sons - we want someone with seafaring experience to be in charge of the Redwyne Fleet, and Davos's sons are incredibly loyal as well as having experience.
- Location
- Asia
[X] Plan: War, What Is It Good For 2.0