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Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest

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HanEmpire said:
I'd go with the heads of Houses, they're the ones who made the decision to go traitor. A vague wording like that will just cause the Reach to get rid of their ugly ducklings and least favourite sons - ie. the ones who disagreed with the lords the most. That's the segment that was ambivalent with or against the power grab btw.
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If we do that that'll be going too far. They lose their land, large amounts of money and a family member, taking their head of house just makes the resentment deeper
 
I'll note that the Wall also needs provisions, so having each house send provisions to feed some number of men for a year or two wouldn't be amiss. If there's one thing the Reach has in abundance it's food.
 
McLuvin said:
If we do that that'll be going too far. They lose their land, large amounts of money and a family member, taking their head of house just makes the resentment deeper
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How is it any different than losing the family member? Either way they're losing a family member, and by taking the House heads we punish the people who decided to rebel. Sending a random member is arbitrary and gives Reach houses a chance to consolidate themselves and clear up lines of succession by kicking out whoever they don't like. That strengthens the Reach and makes Stannis look bad.
 
HanEmpire said:
How is it any different than losing the family member? Either way they're losing a family member, and by taking the House heads we punish the people who decided to rebel. Sending a random member is arbitrary and gives Reach houses a chance to consolidate themselves and clear up lines of succession by kicking out whoever they don't like. That strengthens the Reach and makes Stannis look bad.
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Edit it how you wish. Some big stuff just came up
 
Hmm, this is a rather portentous situation. Renly is dead, and House Tyrell is eviscerated, but King's Landing is in immediate need of rebuilding. However, Stannis can't immediately move to address the massive refugee crisis until the last vestige of a threat to his rule is shattered. The Golden Company and their claimants have to be the first priority.

If I were a betting man, I place a rather large wager on one of two scenarios occurring within the Targaryen camp. One, they immediately relocate to Harrenhal and prepare for a siege as best they can. If they think they can prove a tough enough nut to crack, the chances are they'll try to sue for peace and a safe passage back to Essos in exchange for handing over "Aegon" and Daenerys. When it comes down to it, the Golden Company and whatever other forces the Targs might have are mercenaries, coin and glory are only worth anything if you're not dead. The other scenario, is that Aegon has them fall back to Crackclaw Point, and begin reinforcing his army with Clawmen loyalists. Of the two, I'd much prefer Harrenhal to a long running guerrilla insurgency.

Also something that must be kept in mind is the Dornish host we got word of, that was marching north to link up with the Targaryens. In regards to this, I'd suggest having Randyll Tarly, in his new position as Warden of the South and Lord Paramount of the Reach, take an army down south to meet Oberyn and his troops. Have Beric Dondarrion go with him, along with a good number of Stormland levies.

Next I would split the remainder of Stannis's host into two parts, one to keep order and begin rebuilding at King's Landing, and the other to march east and deal with the Golden Company. I'd take half of the Riverland forces and most, if not all of the Vale army, which should give us between 50,000 to 60,000 men. A more than comfortable margin of numerical superiority when dealing with the Golden Company and whatever mercenary supplements they have.

In regards to the Reach...there really isn't any time to deal with the minutiae right now. That said, there are a number of things we should address. House Tyrell of Highgarden is to be unlanded, with Margaery to be married off to Dickon Tarly. Garlan is to either take the Black, or face execution. Willas can do the same, but with the Maesters or Sept instead. House Tyrell of Horn Hill is to be treated the same, one and all, and stripped of all titles and lands. Any loyalists of Renly's are to be beggared as well, and any captives can either be ransomed for a fortune, take the Black, or be executed.

This talk of demanding that levies are to be gifted to the Wall....what the fuck are you smoking? You can't order levies to the Wall. It's an individual choice that can't be "forced". The fuck is this insanity. Those men are needed back in the Reach to harvest crops, which we will need to feed what is now a quarter of a million homeless subjects.

Also, Jaime is now thrice over an oathbreaker, a cuckolder, and a kingslayer. No, I'm sorry, but once he recovers he will be given one of two choices. He can serve out the rest of his life as a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch, and maybe regain some measure of honor in time, or he can march to the headman's axe. Kevan can be released to return to Casterly Rock, and Tywin will remain as a hostage.

Taking all of this into account, I offer this plan:

[x] Plan: War, What Is It Good For

[] In light of his injuries, Jaime Lannister will be kept in Stannis's custody until he recovers under the treatment of a maester, after which, he will be given a choice. To serve out the rest of his life as a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch, where he might one day regain a semblance of honor, or to march forward and be greeted with the headman's axe as justice for his many, many crimes.

[] Randyll Tarly is to be raised up as Lord Paramount of the Mander, Lord of Highgarden, and Warden of the South. In standing with his new duties, he will march south to meet the Dornish host with an army made of both Reachmen and Stormlanders. Beric Dondarrion shall go with him. Ravens are to be sent out that any lord wishing to profess loyalty in the Stormlands and Reach shall join a part of their levy to his host.

[] Garth Hightower is to be given leave to besiege and sack any Reachlords that do not bow, whose lands shall then be divided up amongst royalist second sons and claimants. House Tyrell is to be stripped of all their lands and titles. The men of House Tyrell shall either take the Black, join the Citadel, swear to the Sept, or they shall soon meet the Stranger themselves. Margaery is to be married to Dickon Tarly to cement Randyll's rule.
-[] Lords that did not strike their banners for Renly shall be heavily punished, but that is to be done at a later date, when Stannis isn't fighting a war on two fronts and King's Landing is more than just a smoking husk.

[] A mixed host of loyal Crownlanders and Rivermen is to remain at the ruins of King's Landing, under the command of Davos Seaworth, to begin efforts to rebuild and to maintain order. The remaining host, mainly consisting of Valemen, is to march east with Stannis to confront and deal with this Targaryen pretender once and for all.
-[] The Blackfish is to be given command of a group of outriders and scouts to gain as much information as possible on the Targaryen pretender forces.

[] The sell sword Bronn is to be knighted and given the hand of Brienne of Tarth for slaying Loras Tyrell in open combat. (If this is accepted. I just like the idea of Loras doing a bunch of fancy sword twirling and then Bronn just shivs him when he's over extended.)
 
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ShyGuy said:
This doesn't sound like much of a punishment to me. Giving him the chance to go back home and be with his brother who he cares about is way to generous. I say either the Night's Watch or death.
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If we're gonna be perfectly honest Jaime Lannister's a liability to the Watch in his current state, but at the same time any true threat he poses has been neutralized. The gods have taken his arm, his looks, most of his family and honestly he's probably half-mad at this point. The gods have rendered their judgement; we might as well send him home until the Stranger's ready for him.
 
@Camiadus what? Horn Hill is Tarly land. I think you mean Thorn Hall or something like that.
Edit: Also I'm pretty sure we should leave King's Landing be until we finish dealing with Aegon and Dany.
 
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Mal-3 said:
If we're gonna be perfectly honest Jaime Lannister's a liability to the Watch in his current state, but at the same time any true threat he poses has been neutralized. The gods have taken his arm, his looks, most of his family and honestly he's probably half-mad at this point. The gods have rendered their judgement; we might as well send him home until the Stranger's ready for him.
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Stan is isn't quite likely to accept house arrest for him. And he wouldn't be a liability really. If nothing else he can train up new recruits in the wall.
 
Camiadus said:
[x] Randyll Tarly is to be raised up as Lord Paramount of the Reach, Lord of Highgarden, and Warden of the South. In standing with his new duties, he will march south to meet the Dornish host with an army made of both Reachmen and Stormlanders. Beric Dondarrion shall go with him. Ravens are to be sent out that any lord wishing to profess loyalty in the Stormlands and Reach, shall join a part of their levy to his host.

[x] Garth Hightower is to be given leave to besiege and sack Horn Hill, whose lands shall then be divided up amongst royalist second sons and claimants. House Tyrell is to be stripped of all their lands and titles. The men of House Tyrell shall either take the Black, join the Citadel, swear to the Sept, or they shall soon meet the Stranger themselves. Margaery is to be married to Dickon Tarly to cement Randyll's rule.

[x] A mixed host of loyal Crownlanders and Rivermen is to remain at the ruins of King's Landing, under the command of Davos Seaworth, to begin efforts to rebuild and to maintain order. The remaining host, mainly consisting of Valemen, is to march east with Stannis to confront and deal with this Targaryen pretender once and for all.

[x] The sell sword Bronn is to be knighted and given the hand of Brienne of Tarth for slaying Loras Tyrell in open combat. (If this is accepted. I just like the idea of Loras doing a bunch of fancy sword twirling and the Bronn just shivs him when he's over extended.)
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Roll all this into one plan rather than separate votes, for the sake of the tally.

Also, Horn Hill is Lord Tarly's land (Tarly defected to join our side and is now the Lord Paramount of the Reach. Why are we besieging it?

Lastly, there's no other punishments for other traitor lords? Nobody taking the black, no extra taxes, etc?
 
Mal-3 said:
If we're gonna be perfectly honest Jaime Lannister's a liability to the Watch in his current state, but at the same time any true threat he poses has been neutralized. The gods have taken his arm, his looks, most of his family and honestly he's probably half-mad at this point. The gods have rendered their judgement; we might as well send him home until the Stranger's ready for him.
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There comes a point where too much mercy may be a bad thing. Essentially letting Jaime go home for all his crimes, and he did commit many crimes, is in no way a good thing. Most bannermen would spit on a king or lord who chose to let Jaime go home, I know a lot of smallfolk from the remnants of King's Landing and beyond who would too. Letting him go home may make Tyrion happy, but it would make all of our bannermen unhappy. Unless someone comes up with a better option besides going home then having him take the black is the best option.
 
Yeah I mean we're already keeping Myrcella and Tommen safe, we're going to return Kevan and his children home too. Really having Jaime take the Black is the most merciful we can get. Stannis is in no way wrong when he wants to execute Jaime.
 
Enjou said:
Roll all this into one plan rather than separate votes, for the sake of the tally.

Also, Horn Hill is Lord Tarly's land (Tarly defected to join our side and is now the Lord Paramount of the Reach. Why are we besieging it?

Lastly, there's no other punishments for other traitor lords? Nobody taking the black, no extra taxes, etc?
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I fixed the minor overlook there, and just made it so that all of House Tyrell shall be unlanded and given the option of Wall, Chain, Sept, or Stranger. They've fucked up way too hard to be given any leniency. That, and Stannis has a personal hatred of them. Randyll is a hero of the hour, and he's competent as all hell besides, so he gets the big prize in the Reach.

As for other punishments...we honestly can't afford to over extend right now. Pushing too far too fast will see everything fall out from beneath us. Reparations and punishments can wait until we punt the Dornish back into their sandy little hole, and strangle this last dragon in his crib. After that we'll have the manpower free to bring out the punishment cane.

As for King's Landing...we need to keep troops there to maintain order and get a head start on rebuilding. A quarter of a million homeless, hungry people is not something that can be ignored. For now we'll have to settle for having the Reachlords send over tons of food every day just to keep them fed.
 
[] Plan: War, What Is It Good For

I very much like this plan, it's comprehensive and hits all the points that I think are important. @Camiadus, I think you might do well to have something in there noting to send out scouts and spies to find out what the Targaryens and Ironborn are up to. I don't think we'd enjoy finding out the hard way.
 
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On one hand, Robb has a vested interest in populating the Night's Watch.
On the other hand, if Robb knows that Jamie is the one who pushed Bran, I can't stay in character without advocating for execution.

If he does know, the best I can vote for is Robb expressing such mixed feelings to Stannis.
 
buli-buli said:
On one hand, Robb has a vested interest in populating the Night's Watch.
On the other hand, if Robb knows that Jamie is the one who pushed Bran, I can't stay in character without advocating for execution.

If he does know, the best I can vote for is Robb expressing such mixed feelings to Stannis.
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Jamie's been mutilated far worse than Bran, at this point, and he's lost all standing and his sister and eldest son. Giving him the choice of death or the Wall is pretty much perfect. It's merciful, but with a bit of an edge to it; there's no option that doesn't end with Jamie dying far from his loved ones.
 
Jaime can't get out of a date with the Stranger. As badly as he is burned, there is no guarantee that he will live long enough for a public execution. What should be done is to worry him. He was throwing his life away to save Tommen's. A little deception may be useful here. Quietly tell Jaime that a full confession of his crimes, broken oaths and the bastardy of Tommen will spare Tommen's life.

So yeah, execute him milord. After he confesses.

We have to deal with the refugees of KL. That's going to involve a sizable force and constant food shipments from the Reach. Others have covered the military campaigns to confront Dorne and the Targs.

As for the disloyal Reacher Lords. Send the heads of the houses to the Wall. Dispossess the entire House Tyrell, and pass their holdings to second son's and relatives of the loyal lords.

Expand the Crownlands. Assign the Reachlands between the two arms of the Mander that the Roseroad passes through to the Crown.
 
Enjou said:
I'll note that the Wall also needs provisions, so having each house send provisions to feed some number of men for a year or two wouldn't be amiss. If there's one thing the Reach has in abundance it's food.
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The Watch getting some supplies isn't a bad idea at all.

But there are hundreds of thousands of refugees that need help right now. And the Riverlands will probably need some support if they're going to have any hope of being ready for winter.
 
Ned Stark just finalizing the deal with Jeor Mormont to return the New Gift to the North and populate it would do a lot for the Night's Watch. They were gonna do that anyway, and divergent canon means that Jeor and Ned aren't dead, so it'll actually go through. Plus a bunch of recruits to the Night's Watch due to this war, which will help their numbers problem.

The Night's Watch is good for the moment, basically. And Robb & Stannis will get on helping more once the Crownlands' refugee crisis is ended.
 
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