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Paths of Civilization

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tryrar said:
.... I wouldn't say the thread is full of people going for that option, since according to the tally it's only 4 people who voted for the option-versus triple that voting to bribe the nmads. No need to break out the panic button yet
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At the time I wrote most of that there were less votes total soooooo comparatively it seemed like there were.
 
I'm surprised Main salt gift isn't very popular, it's pretty monstrous now. So I think the likelihood we would be able to bribe all comers enough to solve our problems for at least a generation is pretty high. Possibly more in some cases, like the Metal Workers.
 
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Andres110 said:
Some believe that we don't have the tools to spot the problems and that trying to fix them will just result in more problems. I'm not one of those people, but that's what others think.
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Correction, we can fix the problem.

For example, look at Hong Kong. At one time, corruption were so very rife that the British could not ignore it. They attempted to fix the problem.

So, you can imagine the stability loss and general gypo as they try to deal with the problem. At one point, they arrested so many policemen that they had to release some or face revolt. Eventually, they perma-fix the solution, making Hong Kong one of the least corrupt city in the world and creating the very famous organization, Independent Commission against Corruption.

We are in the same situation, except we that we may be at war very soon with the Trelli or against the nomads. All we can do is bandage the problem and hope that it is enough, and that we will be enacting The Law reform.
 
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People should seriously consider We Have Reserves, Values always been some of our best bonuses And if you want to break the oligarchs We Have Reserves is probably the best Value for doing it and can only help with our Martial problem.

I'm only going for the Aqueduct Over the festival Because of Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory. We also need to get done sooner rather than later.

I think we can only go for the root of the problem If we start the law this turn I don't think we have the mysticism for that.

[X] [Census] Chance to upgrade We Have Reserves
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Build new aqueduct in Redshore (2*Sec Build Aqueduct)
 
aaagh, I want the guaranteed stability, but the math for the Law is pretty compelling too!

Approval Voting for the Win!

[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Begin work on Iron Age Law Reform (-3 Mysticism, -1 Art per action, 3-4? actions required)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
 
[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
 
Raichu1972 said:
No, the part that I can't believe is that they gave it to the people called the Metal Workers.

Like, how stupid do you have to be to give Metal Workers, known for being able to work metal, the means to better work metal?
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You only think them stupid since it hurts us, but for those people they saw an opportunity to get richer, which actually makes them smart, Greedy and disloyal, but still smart
 
Current Tally:
Adhoc vote count started by gutza1 on Jul 22, 2017 at 10:31 PM, finished with 82119 posts and 34 votes.
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Guys, we DO NOT want to stop the Nomads. They're our ticket to dropping the Stallion Martial for an integration. We also don't want to break the Metal Workers. They're secretive and will continue to be so, even if they start selling the stuff. If we make a ton of refugees fleeing from an oncoming army though, that knowledge is going to spread like wildfire! Besides, we knew that that was coming. On the other hand, Prestige generated by Salt Gift will help our restive provinces stay in the fold, and we need to start on the Iron Law as soon as possible.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
I'm surprised Main salt gift isn't very popular, it's pretty monstrous now. So I think the likelihood we would be able to bribe all comers enough to solve our problems for at least a generation s pretty high. Possibly more in some cases, like the Metal Workers.
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The only people we really need to bribe are the nomads.

The Metal Workers are still a fractious confederacy, so we have a bit before they get their shit together hopefully.

The Trelli are actually trying to curb their over martial tendencies, but their idiots are acting up just like ours are, so I guess fair is fair.

We didn't hear anything from anyone else in the update, so it can be reasonably assumed that none of them are coming to fuck us up this turn.
 
Manget said:
People should seriously consider We Have Reserves, Values always been some of our best bonuses And if you want to break the oligarchs We Have Reserves is probably the best Value for doing it and can only help with our Martial problem.

I'm only going for the Aqueduct Over the festival Because of Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory. We also need to get done sooner rather than later.

I think we can only go for the root of the problem If we start the law this turn I don't think we have the mysticism for that.

[X] [Census] Chance to upgrade We Have Reserves
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Build new aqueduct in Redshore (2*Sec Build Aqueduct)
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Yes we do actually, bluefur just posted some math outlining how refunds mean's we can finish it as a reaction next midturn if we need 4 actions for it.
 
The biggest reason to NOT vote for starting the law project is that we only have 3 mysticism currently. The law project would bring us down to 0.

Edit: But only till the next turn.
 
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Ghostdevil said:
You only think them stupid since it hurts us, but for those people they saw an opportunity to get richer, which actually makes them smart, Greedy and disloyal, but still smart
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If they were actually smart, they would give it to people who had absolutely no chance of discovering how to get it for themselves, thus making them reliant on the merchants for their iron.
Aka, they would have did this with literally anyone else.
 
Andres110 said:
I wasn't specifically referring to you. My answer was certainly correct in regards to veekie and probably others as well.
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@veekie is right, we don't have the tools. This choice would give us an opportunity to develop the tool, but we may have to deal with the gypo before the new tool starts working.

Look at the Hong Kong example. The British created a tool(ICAC) and related processes to solve the problem of corruption. It wasn't as simple as spamming Enforce Justice and call it a day.
 
Raichu1972 said:
If they were actually smart, they would give it to people who had absolutely no chance of discovering how to get it for themselves, thus making them reliant on the merchants for their iron.
Aka, they would have did this with literally anyone else.
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Maybe they didn't care? It doesn't make it dumb giving it away to get rich when it won't matter for You, again my previous statement holds water.
 
I'm going to bed now. May Crow only shit near your feet, and not on your faces. Hopefully this will update before I return. So many pages.
 
I think that when it comes to the Crisis vote consulting the priests seems like the best option: it gives us stability and religious authority and could allow us to evolve a social or spiritual value.
 
[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Begin work on Iron Age Law Reform (-3 Mysticism, -1 Art per action, 3-4? actions required)
 
tryrar said:
Yes we do actually, bluefur just posted some math outlining how refunds mean's we can finish it as a reaction next midturn if we need 4 actions for it.
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Thinking about it, and to be fair, our provinces are almost garunteed to use their last secondary that can't be folded into the law megaproject to create mysticism. It would still be a technical waste of action economy though, since a main festival doesn't gain more stability than a secondary.

I'll edit in that caveat so people aren't confused, but I think I'm going to stick with my vote since I'm also voting for stability raising actions. That's just me in this situation of continuous crises (we're almost to the cleanup phase!)
 
*itches chin*

*looks at some people screaming out about something someone else did as usual, disregards*

*looks through arguments*

...

Hm.

Hmm some more.


Eh. This is good enough for me. I wonder if we could get more mercs out of it? That would be... neutral?
*houseshrug.jpg*

[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X][Census] Free Administrative Tech upgrade
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Begin work on Iron Age Law Reform (-3 Mysticism, -1 Art per action, 3-4? actions required)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)

Good enough. At least +1 Stability and the math for the Law is good, even if it is unintuitive. We will have to get really lucky with stab or take a festival for me to be comfortable though.

All Hail Approval Voting!
 
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