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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Census] Free Administrative Tech upgrade
[X] [Crisis] Try to get to the bottom of things (???)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
 
[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
Let's us actually build things since it's cleat the thread will never do infrastructure

[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
Gives Stab because Holy Shit do we need it

[X] [React] Begin work on Iron Age Law Reform (-3 Mysticism, -1 Art per action, 3-4? actions required)
Let's us take more stab actions/react to nonsense better next turn while provinces finish Law

[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
Try to get them to not fuck over the Metal Workers and take all of their iron.
 
Academia Nut said:
Trip hammers
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Yasssssss.

All my happies!


Hmmm...


[] [Diplo] Hit these nomads before they get going (Main War Mission + Redeploy Red Banner)
-[] [Diplo] Free Switch to Passive Defence Policy

[] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)

[] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[] [Crisis] Consult the priests (+1 RA, +1 Stability, ???)
[] [Crisis] Try to get to the bottom of things (???)


[] [Census] Free Administrative Tech upgrade
[] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)

So my thoughts:

1) [] [Diplo] Hit these nomads before they get going (Main War Mission + Redeploy Red Banner)
-[] [Diplo] Free Switch to Passive Defence Policy
I figure that if we can set these guys backpedaling we can make them collapse as an organized tribe, noting that prestige and winning is how leadership is determined among nomads. Tinriver is going to be safe-ish without the RB around as they just made a Raise Army and it seems they are keeping relations cordial(?) with the Trelli.
Defensive Passive in order to build significant walls in preparation for if we don't send them falling back but only stall them or slow them. Not sure how much but it will help, against them or the Trelli in the south.
We could also switch to Offensive if we really wanted to hurt them but probably delay the Law by a turn.

2) [] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
Kinda a no brainier, we really do need it. Preps for Law, which actually looks like it may be delayed by a turn or so sadly what with the Nomads.

3) [] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[] [Crisis] Consult the priests (+1 RA, +1 Stability, ???)
[] [Crisis] Try to get to the bottom of things (???)
Not sure on this one, the last sounds like a small event chain, best buff up on stab beforehand. Personally I am okay with the first two and a little sketchy on the last but don't really have an opinion beyond saying 1) probably puts it off and that the King of Shadows is a rumor, 2) I'm honestly not sure what this would end up doing but it does not seem overly harmful and seems like it would solve it, 3) something mysterious, probably solves the problem if we do well. Might be useful to do 2 or 3 before the Law so it doesn't crop up again.

4) [] [Census] Free Administrative Tech upgrade
[] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)

Hmm... on the one hand I think the admin tech upgrade will provide us help with the Tax coming and is generally always a good thing to grab since it lets us do what we can do better and maybe even do more. On the other streamlining lets us do more if I am reading it correctly and having 2 ticks of Defense Passive would be wonderful right now, as well as just having more things being done. It also probably cuts out space for corruption or the like, lessening it which may(?) help with the Law.

So having said that I am going to vote for:

[X] [Diplo] Hit these nomads before they get going (Main War Mission + Redeploy Red Banner)
-[X] [Diplo] Free Switch to Passive Defence Policy

[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)

[X] [Census] Free Administrative Tech upgrade
[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)

I am not sure about the Crisis vote so I will wait and read the arguments.

*leans back to contemplate this turn of events, strokes beard*

Oh! Also! Probably don't have to worry about Econ Expansion right now.
 
Current Tally:
Adhoc vote count started by gutza1 on Jul 22, 2017 at 10:13 PM, finished with 82066 posts and 19 votes.
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[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
 
veekie said:
The problem isn't the number of actions, it's the amount of Mysticism. We're short 3 if it's 4 actions.
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If we start it this turn we will be able to finish it next mid-turn since we'll get the Mysticism refund before our Reaction action. Doing it now also opens us up to using our [Main] next turn on anything, and Festivals is better as a {S} than as a {M}.
 
Raichu1972 said:
From the update:

It soon became evident that some of the tribes had spent the past few generations puzzling out the samples of iron they had obtained through war prizes or highly illegal trade with the People. While the People had been incredibly strict about control over the metal, even harsher about the smiths, and utterly obsessed over the secrecy of the mines, eventually someone would have figured out how to extract the metal from the ore, and the Metal Workers were certainly one group who had the necessary skills to have figured it out.

They would have figured it out once they knew what iron looked like, but they only learned because they were using our samples.

We had to study star metal to get our iron, while they got to study shit from our idiotic merchants, so they had a super head start.
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Yes and they had to study scraps and what few proper iron objects they had besides we stole from them they stole from us so this is basically karma coming back to bite us.

You have also not addressed my first point why do you think it was the merchants as a whole and not just a few or even singular merchant?
 
veekie said:
[] [Census] Chance to upgrade We Have Reserves

It's a big boon here, this is one of the more problematic traits while also hugely beneficial.
Trait evolutions are consistently great.

[] [Census] Free Administrative Tech upgrade

Useful for the Law to have more administrative tools when we start it.

[] [Census] Efficient land redistribution (Main DL, does not make management harder)

Well...that's one way to make sure we take the action?

[] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)

This would generally result in infrastructure building up faster on it's own. A very big buff over time, since it'd let us build a redshore aqueduct passively over 3 turns or likewise with other infrastructure projects.
Narratively it should help with the Law by making the bureaucracy smoother on the ground level

All great options really.


[] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)

Tides us over until we get to the Law. My preference

[] [Crisis] Consult the priests (+1 RA, +1 Stability, ???)

I don't think the priests know whats wrong either. But they can be reassuring?

[] [Crisis] Try to get to the bottom of things (???)

NOPE, we don't have the tool to do this yet. It's the ideal option but we're not in an ideal situation.
It's a trap at present. There's no conspiracy, just the system being overloaded.

[] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)

It could work? We have the Wealth to pull it off.

[] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe everyone (Main Salt Gift, untargeted)

This would generate enough Mysticism to finish the Law probablly.

[] [Diplo] Hit these nomads before they get going (Main War Mission + Redeploy Red Banner)
-[] [Diplo] Free Switch to Offence Policy
-[] [Diplo] Free Switch to Defence Policy
-[] [Diplo] Free Switch to Passive Defence Policy

Preemptive strike on a Heroic nomad into steppes...we MIGHT be able to make it work but it could be a lot worse.

[] [Diplo] Eliminate the Metal Workers before they can spread their knowledge (-1 Stability, Redeploy Red Banner, Greenshore converted to a colony)

This would have ugly consequences for our traits. Pass.

[] [Diplo] Hold tight (No action)

Why.

[] [React] Begin work on Iron Age Law Reform (-3 Mysticism, -1 Art per action, 3-4? actions required)

The problem isn't the number of actions, it's the amount of Mysticism. We're short 3 if it's 4 actions.

[] [React] Build new aqueduct in Redshore (2*Sec Build Aqueduct)

Rather urgently needed I think?

[] [React] Improve saltern to take advantage of the new salt mine (Southshore Saltern expansion)

NOT urgently needed.

[] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)

Builds up Stability for the legal reform clusterfuck. We can currently afford it.

[] [React] Work on finishing new boat design (Main More Boats)

And there's the merits of simply finishing off one of the problems.

My vote(as already outlined previously):
[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)

Priority to getting the Stability needed for the Law.
Combining Festival, Restore Order and Proclaim Glory is narratively good for the Law as well.
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It would be better to react and start the Law so that we can be flexible next turn and use a Main Proclaim Glory or anything else that might be needed while everything is on fire.
 
[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)

A solid pick. I waffled between this and Admin considering our situation but I think this still edges it slightly out.

[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)

I was tempted to consult the priests here, but decided it was too iffy. Less risky than unlocking pandora's box though. But at this point I think we just need to try to hold together our civ (Which is teetering ominously currently) until we have the Law done, which thankfully isn't as taxing as I feared.

[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe everyone (Main Salt Gift, untargeted)

I think this has a pretty good chance of working, and if it does it'll buy us a lot of time, which is what we really need here.

[X] [React] Begin work on Iron Age Law Reform (-3 Mysticism, -1 Art per action, 3-4? actions required)

Because we need to get this done.
 
Andres110 said:
It's better for us to get to the bottom of things so that we can more properly address things when we do Iron Age Law Reform, else things'll be missed and problems which could've been solved won't even be noticed. The festival might actually bring some of these problems to the fore by giving people an opportunity to express their grievances.
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The action is ideal, yes, but we don't have the stability reserve to deal with any nasty problem that could come up.
 
[X] [Census] Free Administrative Tech upgrade
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Begin work on Iron Age Law Reform (-3 Mysticism, -1 Art per action, 3-4? actions required)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe everyone (Main Salt Gift, untargeted)
 
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Reader of all said:
Yes and they had to study scraps and what few proper iron objects they had besides we stole from them they stole from us so this is basically karma coming back to bite us.

You have also not addressed my first point why do you think it was the merchants as a whole and not just a few or even singular merchant?
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Because it had been happening over several generations, aka longer than a singular lifetime.

It was more than one asshole who decided to sell what is essentially incredibly valuable information to what is likely the only civilization in the area that could actually make use of it. That is the truly idiotic part.

They could have gave shit to the highlanders or something, and probably nothing would have come from it. But nooooo, they had to give the means to craft stupidly good metal to people called the Metal Workers.
 
BungieONI said:
Kinda a no brainier, we really do need it. Preps for Law, which actually looks like it may be delayed by a turn or so sadly what with the Nomads.
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Reminder that this only gives us a single point of Stability and effectively locks in our [Main] action next turn.
If we start The Law now, we can do anything with our Main next turn that doesn't cost Mysticism, such as a [Main] Restore Order [Secondary] Proclaim Glory [Secondary] Festival
 
[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
 
[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
 
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[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X] [Crisis] Try to get to the bottom of things (???)

Not sure on the Diplo or React votes, so I will drop these before heading out.
 
I am not sure if people are suicidal with getting to the bottom of things. We need the stability for the Law more than anything else.
 
[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
 
[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe everyone (Main Salt Gift, untargeted)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)

I've explained my reasons for getting to the bottom of things, but I've since changed my mind. Assuming we don't take another Stability hit, this has a 1 in 3 chance of getting to Stability 3, and worst case scenario (assuming we don't take a hit) we'll be at Stability 1, which is an ok place to be. We'll certainly want Stability up for when we tackle Law Reform.

Narratively it's pretty good too. Both the Festival and Glory will teach people how to be better, which should help refugee integration and such. Restoring order will also reduce corruption, taking us once more to a stable state of no corruption. I'm hoping that Nah and other people like her will benefit from these actions.
 
[X] [Census] Free Administrative Tech upgrade
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
 
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