CaesriusPolybius
Worldgate Mechanic
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- United States. Ish.
A number of others are capable of on-sight mimicry as well. Tien, as an example, learned both the Kamehameha and Evil Containment Wave on sight, IIRC.
Living Legend (DBZ Quest)
- Thread starter DarkKing98
- Start date
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
Not sure why you don't like it, even discounting how well it should scale with the kaioken*, the benefits of Gero's augmentations are hilariously worth it. Baseline power, strength, speed and durability higher then a novice super saiyan, infinite energy and stamina, the inability to be sensed, no inhabitation to getting stronger via ki training, slower aging and thus an extended lifespan and only requiring water for sustenance. That's some of the best human augmentation technology in fiction I have ever heard of, it's a straight upgrade.
Tien and Chiaotzu were actually there longer then Goku was. Remember it took Goku half a year to travel to snake way meaning he only trained there for around six months, those three plus Piccolo got there much faster then Goku did. At the very least they got there right after Goku went off into space which was what? A month after the battle against Vegeta? 2 months? Something like that. Granted Piccolo got wished back a week later and yamcha 130 days after that(around 4 months) and Tien and Chiaotzu four months later still giving those two a grand total of 8 months with King Kai, two months longer then Goku.
And even then they could still get back to King Kai anytime they wanted! Kami is more then capable of transporting himself himself and others to the check in station in Otherworld and from there it's just a couple days journey to King Kai's place(if that since everyone is now much stronger then Goku was during the Saiyan Saga and consequently much faster). And then after Goku comes back a year later, they could always either use him as a taxi service to King Kai or get Goku to teach them the Instant Transmission and go there themselves. Really they had all the time in the world to train with King Kai, they just never bothered because only Saiyans were allowed their own real agency in dragonball.
In order, tell that to King Kai with his Kaioken technique, tell that to Guru and his potential unlocking power, tell that to Gero and his android technology, tell that to Elder Kai(who specifically called transformations showy, wasteful and a crutch for power) and his potential unlocking power and tell that to Whis and his training on how to access God Ki for mortals. Transformations are useful and the races that have them are lucky, but they are not inherently necessary. Not all races do, Hit, 17, Toppo and Jiren for instance are four of the most powerful fighters in the Tournament of Power and they don't have transformations.
There are alternatives to transformations, and by Super the human Z-fighters have almost constant access to all of them if they wanted too. Their lack of doing so is their own failing and the reason they fell behind the saiyans, not their lack of innate transformations.
As did Yamcha and Tien actually, though Tien might not count. All the human Z-Fighters are supposed to be freakishly good prodigies for human martial artists, the best of their generation.
*I always figured that 17 and 18 would actually be able to use the kaioken at an even higher level then Goku and for far longer. See here's my reasoning, Goku's durability pretty much stems from his ki, the higher his ki the tougher he is. But it's not perfect, like a circuit that's having far too much energy being channeled through it, there's only so much it can take for so long, channeling too much power is straining for Goku, either from the various super saiyan transformations(other then Blue) or from using the Kaioken technique which explicitly boosts it's user past their current limitations at the cost of straining their bodies like hell(even more then the Super Saiyan 3 form). But 17 and 18 are different, sure they can use their ki to raise their durability like Goku but thanks to their augmentations their baseline durability really is tough enough to tank a planetbuster attack even without any ki boosting it higher. They should be able to handle even higher Kaioken levels then Goku simply because they have such ridiculously tougher bodies then him and keep it up a hell of a lot longer thanks to both that innate toughness and their infinite energy reactors that keep them from ever running out of energy and getting tired.
Gero's augmentations plus the Kaioken really is a broken combination, never mind when you add in Elder Kai's Potential Unlock and/or Whis's God Ki training.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
Huh. Fascinating. I never saw much of the original Dragon ball. Just up to around the first world tournament I think. And some of the second too.
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
Yeah, if I remember right Roshi was starting to get annoyed over how many were learning his Kamehameha technique so easily. First Goku, then Krillin, then Yamcha and finally Tien(who used it against him specifically just to show off). Team Four Star even mocked via Piccolo when Cell used the Kamehameha.
lordchaos99
(I have left SV)
Guru is IN a transformation when he unlocks potential! The Giant Namek transformation.
And you don't know Hit, Toppo and Jiren aren't simply transformed all the time, Frieza, Demon King Piccolo and Super Kami Guru were. Granted they probably aren't.
It is simply a power up, a very effective one.
Oh and God Ki IS A TRANSFORMATION.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
Alright! Voting is now closed! Our results are in!
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
For Saiyans, we have no idea what it's like for a race whose hair(and eye color. And body musculature,) doesn't change via power ups. For a race like humans it could just result in a different colored aura like the Kaioken. It might not even be red or blue colored like it is for saiyans.
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DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
Kais, outside of Old Kai, don't age correct? So from 'birth' we are fully grown, yes?
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
We don't really know.
We've never seen a Kai being born, nor have we seen a Kai live out their full lifespan(75,000 years for lesser Kais, millions of years of Supreme Kais). Though judging by how Grand Kai looks a lot older then the other lesser kais and how Gowasu looks older then most Supreme Kais they probably do age, but really damn slowly.
And the closest we've ever gotten to kiddy Supreme Kai's are Shin and the Superme Kai Hero characters of Dragonball Heroes.
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lordchaos99
(I have left SV)
Do we accept Xenoverse in this?
Because the Supreme Kai of Time is only slightly younger than Old Kai despite being a Loli.
Because the Supreme Kai of Time is only slightly younger than Old Kai despite being a Loli.
- Location
- USA
We don't know that. For Saiyans, it certainly seems to be, giving them access to Super Saiyan God / Super Saiyan Blue. But for all other races? God ki by itself is probably not a transformation. After all, all the Gods of Destruction and their angels have god ki.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
Sure! So, they look a certain age from their creation is my theory now.
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
Old Kai looks old thanks to that fusion with an old witch remember?
Plus the Supreme Kai of Time has time magic that probably retards her aging process even by Supreme Kai standards.
Birth
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
You awaken to find yourself on a strange planet infront of a tree. You look at yourself by a nearby lake and take in your appearence
[] Write in
After doing so, you look around, confused as too what you are doing here, and what your purpose is.
[] Write in
After doing so, you look around, confused as too what you are doing here, and what your purpose is.
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
Shin goes "Oh thank Zeno-Sama! Future Help!"
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
EXACTLY!
lordchaos99
(I have left SV)
Huh...you'd think a Golden Fruit would be found before it turned into a person.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
But what if we weren't a golden fruit?
lordchaos99
(I have left SV)
Then we are one of thousands and not at all future help for Shin.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
Waddya mean, not future help!? We can totally help against Buu!
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
Maybe, after a lot of training and a few centuries of school work as lesser kai's are normally a lot less powerful then Supreme Kai's. Lesser Kai's are plentiful, to the point where the main method of filling the lesser kai positions is by drawing lots and those that aren't selected just end up whiling away the centuries studying whatever they want. A new lesser Kai isn't going to be remarkable at all unless we are super skilled prodigy like Zamasu and Shin's not exactly the best person to help train a lesser Kai to be a Supreme Kai considering he missed out on a lot of his own Supreme Kai training.
In short a lesser kai wouldn't even be cannon fodder against Buu unless we start out centuries before the series starts and specifically speck ourselves to be both a combat monster and a Zamasu grade prodigy.
Frankly I get the feeling that most people voting to be a Kai figured we would be a Golden Fruit Supreme Kai, not a normal fruit lesser kai.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
I was under the impression a Supreme Kai and lesser Kai had no difference in power level.
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
King Kai would get his ass kicked by Nappa, something he told Goku back when Goku trained with him. Supreme Kai on the other hand was stated to be stronger then Frieza was on Namek(specifically 1000 times as strong as Frieza). Lesser Kai are lesser, they are far weaker(unless they spend a long ass time training) and live shorter lives unless elevated to being a Supreme Kai.
While Zamasu was actually far stronger then any Supreme Kai we have ever seen despite being a Lesser Kai, he was also explicitly called an outright prodigy(like Frieza or Broly) which was why Gomasu was training him for a promotion to Supreme Kai.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
Well, considering how a plot point will be that no one knows if our Kai is Supreme or Lesser, because our Supreme Kai is incompetent and wouldn't even know what to look for, assuming he is even looking at all, it shall be a journey.