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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

"So I guess we have to be really disciplined about managing our stats for a good long while."

*sends a pleading look at @Academia Nut *
 
FeepingCreature said:
I'm not sure it will. The worry here isn't that they would come in and take over our land, the worry is that they'll raid us for our knowledge. Divine Stewards shouldn't trigger because it's not like we're causing environmental damage; Lord's Loyalty shouldn't trigger because the miners are safe. Plus, if they actually stay there and take over the mine proper, they make themselves a juicy stationary target that we can then surround at leisure, instead of turtling up defensively. As I understand it, Lord's Loyalty should only trigger if we fail to do something about it after we know there's attackers at our doorstep. Tearing down the kilns and pulling back the miners should address the "raid us for knowledge" problem without requiring an immediate defensive commitment. Best-case, they run in, raid us, find nothing much of interest and, disgruntledly leave. Second-best case, they try to take over the mine and make themselves a stationary target for us to go grind up. Worst-case, they get angry and commit punitive atrocities against the civilian populace nearby. That seems relatively unlikely though.
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You realize Divine Stewards triggers on the loss of land? We've just never EVER lost land.
Lord's Loyalty then compounds on that "your vassal is threatened and you tell them to give up their land".

There's a reason AN did not offer an option to "pack up your 300 year old settlement and move", though our NomadKing suggested it.
 
veekie said:
You realize Divine Stewards triggers on the loss of land? We've just never EVER lost land.
Lord's Loyalty then compounds on that "your vassal is threatened and you tell them to give up their land".
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The Redhills are part of our polity, not a subordinate. So if land is taken, it should only trigger DS, not LL.
 
"your vassal is threatened"

We think they're threatened. We actually have no direct evidence of any threat. Besides, I don't want them to give up their land. I don't want to give it to the enemy, and the enemy doesn't want to take it. The point here is to evacuate, temporarily, while we get the siege finished up.

If Divine Stewards/Lord's Loyalty hits on that, my plan is of course unworkable. @Academia Nut ?
 
@Academia Nut, a question.

What's your opinion on someone writing an SI or an OC into the setting of Paths of Civilization, and setting themselves up as a storyteller of the past? And even better, what if the OC is an immortal storyteller?
 
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
kilopi505 said:
@Academia Nut, a question.

What's your opinion on someone writing an SI or an OC into the setting of Paths of Civilization, and setting themselves up as a storyteller of the past? And even better, what if the OC is an immortal storyteller?
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A SI at this time period in the time of strife and heroes would make for an interesting story. Just need to possess interesting and useful knowledge that would help him/her set up a power base.
 
FeepingCreature said:
"your vassal is threatened"

We think they're threatened. We actually have no direct evidence of any threat. Besides, I don't want them to give up their land. I don't want to give it to the enemy, and the enemy doesn't want to take it. The point here is to evacuate, temporarily, while we get the siege finished up.

If Divine Stewards/Lord's Loyalty hits on that, my plan is of course unworkable. @Academia Nut ?
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Note that our turns are counted in generations and we are dealing with iron age warfare/travel. So "temporarily" could well mean 5-10 years, which would certainly create disruptions/upheaval/eco or stab loses.
 
I say, Dump the Centralization. We're practically too centralized.

And no to war. Defensive, 1 Secondary War Mission max, and just turtles all the way to the bottom.
 
Rakuhn said:
The Redhills are part of our polity, not a subordinate. So if land is taken, it should only trigger DS, not LL.
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Consider the IDEA enspoused by Lord's Loyalty, that the Liege must protect the Vassal. This extends down to every Ymaryn, hell, we'd have lost Legitimacy for abandoning our warriors gone rogue when they took a swing at the Highlanders previously.

FeepingCreature said:
"your vassal is threatened"

We think they're threatened. We actually have no direct evidence of any threat. Besides, I don't want them to give up their land. I don't want to give it to the enemy, and the enemy doesn't want to take it. The point here is to evacuate, temporarily, while we get the siege finished up.

If Divine Stewards/Lord's Loyalty hits on that, my plan is of course unworkable. @Academia Nut ?
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Actually, if significant numbers of refugees think their parent state is about to attack...they probably are. Mobilizing men is rather hard to conceal in this day and age, save for mercenary companies.
 
veekie said:
Actually, if significant numbers of refugees think their parent state is about to attack...they probably are. Mobilizing men is rather hard to conceal in this day and age, save for mercenary companies.
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Yeah, Operation Fortitude would not be possible in the iron age
 
Reader of all said:
did phygriff leave reserves just in case we get attacked?
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There are reserves and garrisons and the militia, yes, but the main offensive arm is at the walls of Xohyr.

maximillian said:
How exactly are we feeding and restocking our troops without looting the land, or at least all the food of the land?
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Oh, they loot the shit out of food, no way to get around that, but they're also supplied by the villages that surrendered. They just avoid the rapine slaughter and stripping of everything of value. They carry off livestock and granaries but they don't go raping, slaving, and torturing farmers for the location of stashes of valuables or family members. It's more "Give us what we need and we'll let you run away, if you resist we'll kill you, and if you're hungry you can come work for us. Anyone lurking around our camps who refuses to come forward and submit will be treated as hostile."

It's more that war isn't being seen as a method to obtain wealth, although they do actually generate some of that.

veekie said:
At what level of Centralization do we suffer the reaction loss and Legitimacy fraility?
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You would have to see, but right now 3 is generally safe.

kilopi505 said:
What's your opinion on someone writing an SI or an OC into the setting of Paths of Civilization, and setting themselves up as a storyteller of the past? And even better, what if the OC is an immortal storyteller?
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Ehhhh? I mean, if someone wants to take the role of Homer that's cool.
 
Academia Nut said:
It's more "Give us what we need and we'll let you run away, if you resist we'll kill you, and if you're hungry you can come work for us. Anyone lurking around our camps who refuses to come forward and submit will be treated as hostile."
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Glorious humane Ymaryn, everyone.

Admittedly, it *is* way better than others, most likely, but still asshole-ish.
 
Academia Nut said:
You would have to see, but right now 3 is generally safe.
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Urgh.

[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)

Switching back to a Cent -2 Plan, then.
Adhoc vote count started by Candesce on Jul 3, 2017 at 3:27 PM, finished with 67182 posts and 103 votes.
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[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)

I'd rather have Phyn assasinated but that legit loss is dangerous now.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Glorious humane Ymaryn, everyone.

Admittedly, it *is* way better than others, most likely, but still asshole-ish.
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By the times standards, we are virtually saints.

The Mesopotamians first Emperor basically went about the conquest thing via enthusiastic rape and pillage, including nominally his own people if I understood the video right, and kept them in line with utterly barbaric terror tactics.

Complaints about taxation? Get executed at best, flayed alive and your skin hung up on the side of a house at worst.

I assume the Xoh aren't that much nicer. Or any army that rolls through.

Amusingly, if we can actually pull everything off, Phygrif may well be remembered as Phygrif the Great as it's unlikely that records of our precarious situation will survive. For historians (or the Ymaryns later history) he is likely to be portrayed as the one that liberated countless slaves from the Xoh oppression and put the Ymaryn on the map as one of the great Empires. Nevermind the treatment of conquered populations, which many will attribute to his doing rather than what the Ymaryn do in general (this being our first war of conquest where it becomes obvious).
 
[X] [War] Hope the king wins quickly
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[X] [Kick] the war

Screw it, we put our faith in Blast Hardcheese King Phygrif.
 
agumentic said:
No, we will finish the project anyway, it's just if we accept minimum refuges and won't build mills we end up on Econ 0, unless I am wrong in math somewhere.
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2 actually, unless you were counting next turn and doing a x2 Main Trails or the like.

Lilithium said:
[X] [War] Withdraw all forces (-1 Legitimacy, Rulwyna becomes queen)
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)

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Oops I think we broke Lilithium.

FYI to the thread, the secondary EJ and x2 Trails is a good idea, and as an alternative if we switch to balance instead we will very likely see a main expand econ + main expand econ + secondary build mills for 10 econ, -8 expansion(leaving us at 0 expansion), and 6 wealth and about 1 or 2 Art depending on overflow.

Offense should also generate econ so that they can take martial raising action.

E: So offense or balance are both fine for me statwise.
 
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ctulhuslp said:
Glorious humane Ymaryn, everyone.

Admittedly, it *is* way better than others, most likely, but still asshole-ish.
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It's the only way to wage war before inventing railways and trains.


Well, we could invent Marian mules. But thats a week or two of supply tops, enough for short and quick battles campaigns, but nothing that lasts more than a season.
 
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*Wakes up and crawls out of foxhole. Glances at throne.*

"Ah, you are awake! Such glorious times we had in your absence!"

*Picks up a plate of potatoes and eyes them suspiciously. While gobbling them.*

Edit: Plan "Gain 3 centralization in all the best ways" sounds like a go to me.
 
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maximillian said:
It's the only way to wage war before inventing railways and trains.


Well, we could invent Marian mules. But thats a week or two of supply tops, enough for short and quick battles campaigns, but nothing that lasts more than a season.
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So, we need steel and steampower?


Ah, wait, nevermind. By WoG, we can have paper quite soon via more libraries, studying forests and alchemy. Paper is insane booster to a lot of stuff, so....
 
ctulhuslp said:
So, we need steel and steampower?


Ah, wait, nevermind. By WoG, we can have paper quite soon via more libraries, studying forests and alchemy. Paper is insane booster to a lot of stuff, so....
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You can even burn it to power steam engines! All we need is a community of treasonous heretics, and we'll have unlimited fuel!
 
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