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Paths of Civilization

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Worth noting that worst case war scenario - that is, all three sides attack our king and vassal at the same time - would require ungodly amount of coordination from all three, without alerting our Intrigue hero. And if they attack us one by one, army with the king is big enough to counter them until reinforcements arrive.
 
FeepingCreature said:
Is this a viable write-in? @Academia Nut ? Damnit, how do you poke people? [edit] Got it.
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write ins are generally not allowed/result in poor outcome in Academia Nut quests, because the options are either the only viable options (and trying to do two things at once makes you screw up both) or the character lacks the information/knowledge/etc. to see other options and is just confused what these strange voices in his head want from him.
 
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Okay, thanks for the info. Is it possible that AN missed this possibility? Any hope to getting them to add it?

If anything, afaict it fits an Intrigue leader better than trying to overrule the military.
 
bluefur87 said:
Where Blue comes to a conclusion that will be mostly ignored

Though to be fair, putting this down during the voting period probably isn't doing me any favors.

So, I've been doing some thinking about what hereditary means in this quest, and I've sort of boiled down our power towards three areas. Then managed to get completely off the track and went down a controversial rabbit hole I was trying to avoid.

Rulers: How many people are in power.
Legitimacy: Why a person is in power.
Passing On: How someone is determined to be put into power.

Our current ruler group is of interest, but not importance to our situation. It's one person, supported by a group of people doing their best to help them rule. In theory, at least. Again, not important to the discussion.

How power is passed on is important, but not what I want to focus on. To note, here it is an election for the next person to rule. Possibly a bit complex, and in many instances people, even the ruling oligarchs, may not know who they're really voting for because distances are so great. Of note, and of some importance, but...

Our legitimacy is borderline non-existent.

"Why is someone the king?"
"Because he was elected."
"I didn't elect him!"

The fundamental problem we are having here is that we our using modern sensibilities to treat the law as if it is it's own entity, separate from the king. That's not what it is, though. The law is seen as an extension of the King's word, part of his will. The king is above the law. There exists no method of trying a king. In order to get to this ideal we take as natural, it would likely take several libraries, a lot of time, and the kicking off of a large scale scholar movement. Something certainly interesting, but it would likely take a great number of social reforms to actually create this concept.

Another possibility would be a meritocracy of some sort, but we will likely need a much better education system before we attempt to pull that off. I'd say it is closer than a flat out 'rule of the law' type of situation though.

The third possibility I can think of, is the one we have the easiest access too. Divine Right. That is, 'he's king because the gods said so.'

Now, this can come in many forms, either through some convoluted ritual, perhaps some very primitive form of meritocracy, and of course the simple 'he's king because of his bloodline.'

Each one has its pros and cons, much of it would depend on how involved we want to get our mysticism cast, though. Our last choice would have had them very involved. Hereditary is very much one of the most fire and forget forms, for better or worse, and would really just need a ritual done for each king to show that they've been properly blessed from the spirits.

Considering this thread's... insistence on complete practicality and keeping religion away from stuff, I expect that last idea to be poorly received, but I feel we're going to be in for some serious hardships if we aim for one of the more advanced ones when we are clearly not socially advanced enough to handle them yet, and unlikely to be so in the near future.

Oh, as to why this is important?

Why should the north listen to us? If they constantly get marginalized, their only interests are gone, and if they get enough strength to stand on their own, they will! One of the biggest things that is likely making the north think they can do this is the Stallion Tribes having their own martial score. Now, if we take that away there will still be local martial scores in various areas, so it's not a complete solution, but if we can afford the wealth pulling the martial out of the Stallions and putting it into a mercenary group that we just park in Valleyhome for three turns would likely help for awhile. It will ultimately be a stalling tactic, though.

Edit: Oh, and palace might help, depending on if and how it increases our legitimacy. Not too sure there though.
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Note that the stallion tribe are voting for the king, their chief has a vote like every other chief. If you are asking why the common people should follow the king, there the answer "because we always did it this way" is a completely valid reason when your biggest concern is still farming the land.
 
War Preparations
[] [War] Hope the king wins quickly
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[] [War] Withdraw all forces (-1 Legitimacy, Rulwyna becomes queen)

What new designs are being developed by the merchants?
[X] [Boat] New design: Size
[] [Boat] New design: Speed
[] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness

A number of miners want to attempt to apply the mills to grind their ores
[] [Mill] Denied
[] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)

The Stallions found something very interesting in a quarry and are asking for additional support to develop it
[] [WC] They can do it themselves (Stallions displeased)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[] [WC] Greater assistance (-3 Art, -2 Centralization, Stallions very pleased, ???)

The Sacred Forest Renewal seems to be on the verge of completion, but can the People afford it?
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
-[] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[] [Main] Main New Settlement - Far Eastern Redhills
[] [Main] Main Expand Economy
[] [Main] Main Build Mill

How welcoming were the People of strangers in this time of trouble?
[] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[] [Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
 
Hey, if we both don't kick megaproject and accept minimum refuges, wouldn't that put us into a rather precarious situation economy-wise, and thus military wise?
 
You know has anyone ever considered that rulwynna who once again has POOR MARTIAL is wrong about the TS and the HK attacking redhills and instead will attack our lowland vassals and our now weakened mercenary band and hero instead? We can survive losing our iron monopoly (which I would like to point out we would lose anyway if we lose the lowland minors and/or the red banners) what we cannot survive is lord's loyalty and divine stewards kicking us while we are down.
 
Reader of all said:
You know has anyone ever considered that rulwynna who once again has POOR MARTIAL is wrong about the TS and the HK attacking redhills and instead will attack our lowland vassals and our now weakened mercenary band and hero instead? We can survive losing our iron monopoly (which I would like to point out we would lose anyway if we lose the lowland minors and/or the red banners) what we cannot survive is lord's loyalty and divine stewards kicking us while we are down.
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They are attempting to wait out our hero king before attacking.
 
Kiba said:
They are attempting to wait out our hero king before attacking.
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Nope they wanted wait it out but instead found that they are stuck in a corner of kill us now or face our eventual dominance within the region here is a quote from AN.
Academia Nut said:
They feel backed into a corner. If they don't do this now while you are distracted with the Xohyssiri, you will dominate the lowlands and they will be consumed or marginalized shortly after.
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Reader of all said:
You know has anyone ever considered that rulwynna who once again has POOR MARTIAL is wrong about the TS and the HK attacking redhills and instead will attack our lowland vassals and our now weakened mercenary band and hero instead? We can survive losing our iron monopoly (which I would like to point out we would lose anyway if we lose the lowland minors and/or the red banners) what we cannot survive is lord's loyalty and divine stewards kicking us while we are down.
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How would we lose it with the lowlands or red banners?
 
Reader of all said:
You know has anyone ever considered that rulwynna who once again has POOR MARTIAL is wrong about the TS and the HK attacking redhills and instead will attack our lowland vassals and our now weakened mercenary band and hero instead? We can survive losing our iron monopoly (which I would like to point out we would lose anyway if we lose the lowland minors and/or the red banners) what we cannot survive is lord's loyalty and divine stewards kicking us while we are down.
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Redhills is a reasonable position to act to reinforce any part of our territory because it's not camping on the other side of the dmn lowlands.

And our economy is actually pretty tight now, and telling our people to pack up and be ready to abandon territory at the drop of a hat will also provoke Divine Stewards/Lord's Loyalty.
 
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fictionfan said:
How would we lose it with the lowlands or red banners?
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The red banners have metal smiths to maintain their equipment and they have been teaching the now vassilized lowland minor smiths in order to aid them in maintaining said equipment here have a quote.
Academia Nut said:
  • Lord's Loyalty increases the chance of breakaway if you don't send support, but decreases it if you do. Your vassals are highly likely to break away without support. Given that they have spent several years with blacksmiths milling among them to maintain the Red Banner's gear...
  • Not likely, but your traits are organized to be susceptible to a failure cascade
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agumentic said:
We can use our other main action to build mills.
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I thought kicking just added another action to the megaproject?

However I would rather use that stability to take in more refugees.

[X] [Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
 
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drake_azathoth said:
Redhills is a reasonable position to act to reinforce any part of our territory because it's not camping on the other side of the dqmn lowlands.

And our economy is actually pretty tight now, and telling our people to pack up and be ready to abandon territory at the drop of a hat will also process Divine Stewards/Lord's Loyalty.
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The thing is we have yeoman's manning the defenses of red hills and with our econ which should be at 8 martial if we win plus Phygriff is not a fool he should have left reserves here just in case someone will attack and from the sound of it the king has the xoh on the ropes and should be finishing up soon I am still waiting on AN's reply on our war chief's assessment.
 
Reader of all said:
You know has anyone ever considered that rulwynna who once again has POOR MARTIAL is wrong about the TS and the HK attacking redhills and instead will attack our lowland vassals and our now weakened mercenary band and hero instead? We can survive losing our iron monopoly (which I would like to point out we would lose anyway if we lose the lowland minors and/or the red banners) what we cannot survive is lord's loyalty and divine stewards kicking us while we are down.
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Her poor Martial means she would be crap for leading the defense. She's an intrigue hero, though, this sort of information is what she's good at.
 
Godwinson said:
Her poor Martial means she would be crap for leading the defense. She's an intrigue hero, though, this sort of information is what she's good at.
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She has information that the HK and TS are coordinating an attack what she is guessing is from where the target of the attack is going to be I trust her information is accurate it is her speculation I have trouble believing in.
 
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
 
fictionfan said:
I thought kicking just added another action to the megaproject?

However I would rather use that stability to take in more refugees.

[X] [Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
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Not in that case.

Also, Rulwynna is not in any position to move armies anyway, what she can do is deliver information about HK and TH plot to the king, who, with his heroic martial score, determines what to do and what troops send back.
 
Also another thing to consider Rulwynna does not have all the information available to her
Academia Nut said:
In this case, no. This vote is a combination of the actions of an individual who does not have all the facts, and the efforts of everyone else as the king has kind of left them to their own devices to a large extent.
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So we are acting on the guess of someone who has poor martial when she does not know the state of the defenses and how the war is going.
 
Reader of all said:
She has information that the HK and TS are coordinating an attack what she is guessing is from where the target of the attack is going to be I trust her information is accurate it is her speculation I have trouble believing in.
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Coordinating between two armies on the opposite side of the lowland seems unlikely. They likely to agree to start attacking on a date, but it is unlikely that they will be able to work together effectively.

Reader of all said:
So we are acting on the guess of someone who has poor martial when she does not know the state of the defenses and how the war is going.
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She ran an information network. Probably have a list of contact from whom she could talk to further information.

Reader of all said:
The thing is we have yeoman's manning the defenses of red hills and with our econ which should be at 8 martial if we win plus Phygriff is not a fool he should have left reserves here just in case someone will attack and from the sound of it the king has the xoh on the ropes and should be finishing up soon I am still waiting on AN's reply on our war chief's assessment.
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The king is great at warfare and battles, but he has poor strategic sense.
 
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