Because those commoners are already completely locked out and not one of these Nobles in the oligarchy have produced a hero in a while, Hell our current line I am talking about is from the Stallions who are most likely PURE heredity
...Didn't we have a "son of a minor chief" hero like literally a couple turns before Rulwyna's dad? The weed guy? And no, they're not. We still have de jure non-hereditary elective inheritance, even in the stallions. Having strongly de facto hereditary makes it harder, but, unlike with actual de jure hereditary, still legal and possible for a commoner to be king without a coup or legal shenanigans. For that matter, our current system has a pretty wide range of "nobles"; limiting our kings to a single line is...again, kind of baffling as a logic, because as is that line's heroes can become king relatively easily; Rulwyna II had to go to the background because of issues that themselves make "lets just make this family the kings always" rather hard to pull off, for that matter. But limiting it to their line just means that if we have another Weed Hero from some minor chieftain line, then unless this "only this family" tanistry allows for marrying in, he can't be king...and allowing for marrying in to the family to be king is...honestly just a clunky way of trying to regain one of the main benefits of our current system, after getting rid of it in the first place?
 
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

ALL HAIL KING PHYGRIF THE DEMONBANE, THE END OF XOHYSSIR, LIBERATOR OF THE LOWLANDS, THE ORKMAD!:p
 
Considering that we'll be decreasing our centralization this turn, that apparently the HK and TH will back off if we get a sudden swell of military to spend, our constant worries about the north breaking away, and the fact that next turn our diplomacy will be at 6...

If it's possible does anyone want to aim to integrate the Stallion Tribes next turn?

Granted that would leave us at diplomacy 0, but apparently everyone around us wants us dead as soon as possible so I can't really think of a way that things could get worse for us diplomatically.
Doesn't change much of the situation up north, I am afraid. Those that we would want to convert to more central Ymaryn values would just move to Heaven's Hawk March.
 
...Didn't we have a "son of a minor chief" hero like literally a couple turns before Rulwyna's dad? The weed guy? And no, they're not. We still have de jure non-hereditary elective inheritance, even in the stallions. Having strongly de facto hereditary makes it harder, but, unlike with actual de jure hereditary, still legal and possible for a commoner to be king without a coup or legal shenanigans. For that matter, our current system has a pretty wide range of "nobles"; limiting our kings to a single line is...again, kind of baffling as a logic, because as is that line's heroes can become king relatively easily; Rulwyna II had to go to the background because of issues that themselves make "lets just make this family the kings always" rather hard to pull off, for that matter. But limiting it to their line just means that if we have another Weed Hero from some minor chieftain line, then unless this "only this family" tanistry allows for marrying in, he can't be king...and allowing for marrying in to the family to be king is...honestly just a clunky way of trying to regain one of the main benefits of our current system, after getting rid of it in the first place?
That's a good point for now, but if Rulwyna's children and descendants continue to be better than our average King, then it will start to invalidate your argument :p
Tho I wouldn't call a FEW TURNS before the Stallion King recent...
 
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Centralization 2 is low, but it's not dangerously so (we sometimes randomly get -1 and need to stay positive).
ah, yes, being at 2 and randomly getting a cent hit which brings us nearer to a) governmental collapse and b) WoG automatically dying upon *touching* Stab + Legit <= 0 is super comforting. I eagerly await the day we are 1 point closer to death, just for the sake of an increased innovation chance and 1 more econ.
 
Can we get a free policy switch to defensive?
If we are still being attacked, yes. Recall however, Defensive has the most upfront cost, and we are not swimming in wealth right now...
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

ALL HAIL KING PHYGRIF THE DEMONBANE, THE END OF XOHYSSIR, LIBERATOR OF THE LOWLANDS, THE ORKMAD!:p
You are allowed another Main choice with that kick, good sir.
 
ah, yes, being at 2 and randomly getting a cent hit which brings us nearer to a) governmental collapse and b) WoG automatically dying upon *touching* Stab + Legit <= 0 is super comforting. I eagerly await the day we are 1 point closer to death, just for the sake of an increased innovation chance and 1 more econ.
When was the last time we had a mandatory Cent hit in this quest? Because honestly, I can't even remember it.
 
ah, yes, being at 2 and randomly getting a cent hit which brings us nearer to a) governmental collapse and b) WoG automatically dying upon *touching* Stab + Legit <= 0 is super comforting. I eagerly await the day we are 1 point closer to death, just for the sake of an increased innovation chance and 1 more econ.
The primary point is to get +1 Stability from an Enforce Justice next turn done by the provinces.

That was me showing that it's safe to get -3, since the random damage won't even have a chance of dropping us to a dangerously low position.
 
Alright, history sheet updated. We're really getting ALL the actions now. So many peripheral states.

History of this quest

And a random piece of trivia from the history sheet:

How many secondary actions has Iron Blooded saved us so far?
49 secondary actions over 16 turns

Iron is OPOP
 
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That's a good point for now, but if Rulwyna's children and descendants continue to be better than our average King, then it will start to invalidate you argument :p
...Not really? Unless you're literally saying that their genes are so good their line with literally always produce awesome descendants, then...no? Even if they produce another hero in the next generation, that doesn't suddenly make the downsides of hereditary inheritance go away, or the upsides of our current system go away? Like...half my argument is "past performance is not inherently indicative of future performance", especially when we're talking about literal generations of different people?

Now, mind, if Rulwyna II and her child and her child's child are all heroes, or even just all kings, then it would start to invalidate our system, but that's, in my opinion as well as to my knowledge most posters' opinions, a bad thing about that scenario, not a good thing that makes hereditary inheritance anything but a potential negative outcome of too many heroes from the same family :p

Edit: That said, i need sleep; will be busy tomorrow so might not be able to respond much after this
 
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It'd be best if we could ensure that it is so by lowering Centralization as much as we safely can.

If we're lucky, double [main] New Trails only gets us 1 centralization and we get an Enforce Justice anyway. It'd keep with the existing progression, we just don't want to risk that it wouldn't when getting the guess wrong will blow up our civ.
 
@Academia Nut , what is "Seaworthiness"?

[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Greater assistance (-3 Art, -2 Centralization, Stallions very pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They should take in as many as they could (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, overcrowding)

Guyys. We are creating a lot of these refugees, we should take them in.
Besides, "take in all the refugees" is most likely the way to evolve CA.
And Centralization 1 means you know what?


Centralization 1 means 4 New Trails. It means two sequential Double Main Trails! It is exactly what we need, and it gives us breathing room wrt Stallions and it gives us some sort of....trip hammer?
 
...Not really? Unless you're literally saying that their genes are so good their line with literally always produce awesome descendants, then...no? Even if they produce another hero in the next generation, that doesn't suddenly make the downsides of hereditary inheritance go away, or the upsides of our current system go away? Like...half my argument is "past performance is not inherently indicative of future performance", especially when we're talking about literal generations of different people?

Now, mind, if Rulwyna II and her child and her child's child are all heroes, or even just all kings, then it would start to invalidate our system, but that's, in my opinion as well as to my knowledge most posters' opinions, a bad thing about that scenario, not a good thing that makes hereditary inheritance anything but a potential negative outcome of too many heroes from the same family :p
It does invalidate your argument, the chances of them being heroes and Kings that many times would be ASTRONOMICALLY unlikely if it was due to pure roll and luck. Basically at that point it'd mean the roll has a bonus of some kind or the dc for a family of heroes Is lower...
Edit: These are just a possible explanation towards that unlikely event cause it'd have to be a bonus at some point
 
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Guyys. We are creating a lot of these refugees, we should take them in.
Besides, "take in all the refugees" is most likely the way to evolve CA.
And Centralization 1 means you know what?


Centralization 1 means 4 New Trails. It means two sequential Double Main Trails! It is exactly what we need, and it gives us breathing room wrt Stallions and it gives us some sort of....trip hammer?
Centralization 1 also means that if we take another -1 to it, we implode into civil war and societal collapse. Too dangerous.
 
Centralization 1 means bad shit happening.

Why do you think so?
It is our lower yellow, having it for one turn is not going to kill us, not with us diffusing Stallions anger for a time and being guaranteed to complete Renewal, thus giving us 1 Stability + payout from Canal.
Government reforms at Centralization 0, not 1.
 
Warning: Under current system, cascade failure begins at end of turn Legit + Stability <= 0 (Legit 3, Stab -3; Legit 2, Stab -2; etc.). Low Centralization may change this from end of turn to a more sensitive form
Does "more sensitive form" mean something like "if you hit the conditions at any point, not just end of turn", or "conditions become more strict" or something else?
First you might lose the capacity to react but you can touch them without immediately explode, then if you are really low centraliation it could become "touch these conditions".

The primary point is to get +1 Stability from an Enforce Justice next turn done by the provinces.

That was me showing that it's safe to get -3, since the random damage won't even have a chance of dropping us to a dangerously low position.
Having low centralization makes it so we'll be at a greater degree of risk.

If you wanted to *not* kick the megaproject and do Greater Permission your plan would make sense, as it would get us to 3 stability. Instead, you're voting to kick and are thus burning stab and cent so you can regain them at the cost of an action, the ability to react, and our death if we get a combo stab and cent hit, or possibly even just a stab hit if it arrives before the Megaproject finishes. All for the gain of merely +1 econ +x chance of innovation.
 
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Through careful discussion with wine and beer soaked traders and merchants, it was becoming clear that not only was the nomad the chiefs had brought in as king fighting the Xohyssiri, he had also managed to antagonize the Highlanders and the Thunder Speakers. Before they had ignored the People as not worth the trouble, even as they had realized that the People were remarkably dangerous. Now though... now it was clear that they were seeing the People as an existential threat. The two groups had been attempting to coordinate and wait out the current king, figuring that his successor would be less martially inclined and they could catch them over committed, but the Highlanders had suffered severely these past few years and thus there were a few refugees that had let slip while drunk the discussions they had overheard, which had lead to Rulwyna carefully intercepting a few key merchants and thus the communications between the Highland King and the Thunder Speaker.
Called it.

War Preparations
[] [War] Hope the king wins quickly
[] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[] [War] Withdraw all forces (-1 Legitimacy, Rulwyna becomes queen)
Basically what I was advocating.

Ok, I'm done being smug.

Now, onto analysis.

Fake Edit: Dammit, AN, stop ruining my post with clarifications. I had to rewrite these sections multiple times.

I want Rulwyna as queen, but we have WoG that she'll have another chance at it. In this case, we can save our Legitimacy which also allows Festivals at a higher Stability and it lets us spend only a secondary war mission on vassal defence.

She did an analysis of how we could collapse, so it's possible she has Heroic Admin and possible our first look at Heroic Intrigue. Luckily, we can elect her later on.

What new designs are being developed by the merchants?
[] [Boat] New design: Size
[] [Boat] New design: Speed
[] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
Climate Instability is still going on, so seaworthiness. It also will help in the future when we're doing ocean travel. Bulk is better short term, but fixing the trade penalty now would be useful. Not having to worry about Wealth would be nice.

A number of miners want to attempt to apply the mills to grind their ores
[] [Mill] Denied
[] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)

Lesser Permission so we don't drop too much centralization.

The Stallions found something very interesting in a quarry and are asking for additional support to develop it
[] [WC] They can do it themselves (Stallions displeased)
[] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[] [WC] Greater assistance (-3 Art, -2 Centralization, Stallions very pleased, ???)

Stallions are going to develop this anyways. Lesser Assistance so the Stallions are not displeased. Not too much of a Centralization loss.

The Sacred Forest Renewal seems to be on the verge of completion, but can the People afford it?
[] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
-[] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[] [Main] Main New Settlement - Far Eastern Redhills
[] [Main] Main Expand Economy
[] [Main] Main Build Mill
So we have a chance of getting a Stability hit from bad admin ordering. If we don't complete it this turn, we could take a stability hit regardless of what happens. Let's assume the worst case and Sacred Forest Renewal goes first and brings us to 0 Econ. Finishing gives us a Stability but could also trigger a loss first so it is neutral.

We're also low on Economy and Econ Slots this turn. We cannot afford to do Expand Economy since we're low on slots and we're taking in refugees. Bad Admin ordering will also punish us here. New settlement is going to strain our system even more. If we kick, we Build Mills.

How welcoming were the People of strangers in this time of trouble?
[] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[] [Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[] [Refugee] They should take in as many as they could (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, overcrowding)

We take the safest option so we have some leeway with Stability.

So:
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Main] Main Build Mill
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

Worst case, it's:

Legitimacy 3
Stability 1 - 1 (Bad Admin Ordering -> 0 Econ) - 1 (Kick) + 1 (Megaproject Completion) - 1 (Refugees) = -1

Total is 3 - 1 = 2 so we're not completely dead.

Econ 2 - 2 (Sacred Forest Renewal) + 3 (Build Mills) + 2 (Mills Research) + 2 (Refugees) = 7 with a chance of dipping to 0.
Econ Expansion 6 - 2 (Refugees) + 2 (Sacred Forest Renewal) = 6
Centralization 5 - 1 (Mills Research) - 1 (Stallion Support) = 3
Art 6 - 1 (Sacred Forest Renewal) - 1 (Build Mills) - 1 (Mills Research) - 2 (Stallion support) = 1
Wealth 9 - 3 (Build Mills) - 2 (Mills Research) = 5

Before any recurring costs and weather hits. There's enough leeway to keep us alive.

I've noticed some misinformation being spread around so I'll correct some of them after dinner.
 
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