I'm getting 1.44 mean stability from the main, assuming it does end up just 1d3's for the probability. Also, it means a much greater surety of getting at least one stab out of it: 8/9ths chance of +1 stab vs 6/9ths, and 5/9ths for +2 vs 3/9ths.
Can someone explain what the Diplomacy stat means? Its not how well we're viewed because we've been maxed out on it and been viewed with distaste for being vampires. Its not how effective we are at using soft power to influence those close to us because that's governed by Prestige. While somewhat connected to trade that seems to be more the realm of Econ. We can occasionally take hits on it OOC to do certain actions but IC I struggle to see what it represents.
It's a combination of diplomatic ties and favors, and (more concretely) luxuries and trade goods, since at this stage of human history they're pretty heavily tied, with "economic" trade and "political" diplomacy being very linked, with good ties and opinions helping trade, and the exchange/gifting of luxuries being important to diplomacy.
Also, "the realm of econ" right now is almost entirely food, and the capacity to produce food, and until/unless we get much bigger and better ships, bulk trade (like would be necessary to have food interact with trade much if at all) is impossible
So, I'm thinking we stick with increasing our blackbirds to deal with issues at home, as well as free up other warriors to go fight the nomads, and a main war action to support our march and kick the nomads in the teeth as hard as we can if needed. With the Stallion Tribes, our nomad allies (which is still weird as hell to say), and West Wall under our banner, we should have enough power to break the horde unless we have a disaster hit, or they roll incredibly well.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of "Zamin over-analyses everything"
[][Library] Sacred Forest
[][Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[][Corruption] Deploy force
[][Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[][Policy] No change
For the king, there is only one path forward for dealing with the corruption: cut it out. The Blackbirds and warriors are deployed to begin rounding up the conspirators, and while some slip away in the night and there is considerable panic by the common folk over the king coming for them, he is able to calm fears and soothe distress over his actions. The fact that they had a good case against the conspirators definitely helps, and soon enough there is enough public anger against them that the executions and exiles go with little further outcry. With the pressure relieved, the experiments of the potters and smiths with a curious byproduct of their work are now also unfettered and can begin playing around with the funny substance that comes from sand getting into their kilns and forges.
Still, the king can't help but feel disquieted over it all. He restored order, but can his successors? And he knows that some of the conspirators slipped away, disappearing into the general population to... who knew?
On the bright side, the main conspirators have been purged and we've started experimenting with glass. On the downside, some of them may have escaped and the king's worried that his successors may not be able to purge them properly if they pop up again.
On the other hand, we seem to have upgraded Restoration of Order:
Restoration of Order - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People, at the cost of disturbing their confidence that the king has their best interests at heart. Max Stability: Legitimacy-1
* S: Gain 0 to 2 Stability at a cost of -1 Legitimacy
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
It's not as good as Greater Good's Grand Sacrifice, but this is still pretty nice.
As the seasons pass, word comes back from the expedition out west to the Metal Workers. The great expedition of shamans and workers to attempt to help the Metal Workers with their opening a portal to the Underworld problem reports back that the issue is completely and totally unresolved, and may in fact be unfixable. They attempted diverting a small river into the worst of the flaming pits, and all they got was a whole lot of steam. Admittedly they may in fact have damped some of the fires because the choking smoke was considerably less bad, but the valley was still wrecked, displacing thousands and severing an internal trade link. Still, the additional help did mean that the Metal Workers were able to divert more attention to evacuation and reorganization than they would have, and when the People showed up to lend a hand that definitely made them listen a whole lot more attentively to the warnings of future nomad incursions.
So on one hand, everything's still on fire. On the other hand, our shaman's actions have at least given the Metal Workers a bit of a buffer so that they hopefully won't get completely steamrolled if the nomads happen to glance in their general direction.
It unfortunately sounds like not only are they in trouble, but the tribes in the south and west of their homes that they have had rocky relationships with - i.e. endemic slave raiding by both sides - over the past few generations are likely to take advantage of the disruption and weakness.
Upon hearing this, the king makes sure to note to someone that something saying "Don't be dicks to your neighbours or they will pay you back at the worst possible moment" is enshrined into the library being built in the Sacred Forest somewhere. While past generations of kings have more or less understood this, it seems a particularly valuable lesson to point out. Neighbours don't necessarily remember when you help, but they definitely know how to hold a grudge.
It seems that our King is wise beyond his years. Once the Library is constructed, anyone who walks in will see this hanging over the entrance:
Speaking of grudges, word was filtering down that early skirmishing was already being reported as the nomad tribes moved south and began to make contact with friendly tribes and the Stallions, and the reports of early failures to hold the encroaching tribes back. Not too bad yet, but already the People and their allies are starting to fall back due to the enemy having improved their chariots and thus having equivalent mobility wielded by a superior commander. At least the difference in weaponry is enough that the People are still falling back in good order rather than suffering catastrophic defeat.
The loss of the Metal Workers could definitely change that however.
And it seems that the fighting's already started up north. They have numbers, improved chariots, and a Hero while we have Iron, Trees, Watchtowers, and the Ymaryn Great Wall of 'Go Fuck Yourself, Nomads'. So far, it's a bit of a stalemate, but if the nomads manage to roll over the Metal Workers and get their hands on bronze, things might get a bit messy for us.
Religious Authority, eh? Gee, I wonder what kind of benefits we'd get from this particular stat? I'm guessing that if we raise it a bit, people are more likely to listen to us because we're the special holy people. On the other hand, if this gets too high, our king can't get anything done because the priests are effectively the ones in charge of our government.
Geez, that's a lot of Prestige. And we might want to start raising Martial before the main horde reaches our borders.
As for Trade Goods, we're dominant in Salt and Fine Dyes, Leading in Silver and Wine, have raised our Pilgrimage to Significant, and developed Marginal trading for Glass.
I think that if we expand vineyards and glassworks, we might be able to become dominant in Wine and Glass. Constructing more temples would increase our Pilgrimage, and surveying our lands might unlock more metals for us to mine.
--------------------------
CHOICES
Well, I already mentioned that improved Restoration of Order, but we've got a few more changes...
Build Docks - With large numbers of ships being built, a new place to store them all, the goods they bring in, and a place to build them might be a good idea
*S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo, increased trade power
*M: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo, increased potential for new innovations, increased trade power
More ships? More ships. These new docks seem a bit weaker, but I suppose most of the benefits were already gained when we built that first one.
Build Glassworks - A new material discovered recently, new luxuries and trade goods could be made from relatively cheap materials
*S: -1 Econ, +2 Diplomacy, small chance of new innvoations
*S: -1 Econ, +2 Diplomacy, increased chance of new innovations
Hnnngggghhh. Want... so... bad... Getting a headstart on glass would give us a new trading good to dominate the market with.
Build Wall - The practice of building city walls has reached new heights with access to superior tools making the cutting of stone simpler (60% light walls, 30% significant walls, 10% massive walls)
*S: -1 Econ, +5% light walls
*M: -2 Econ, +5% significant walls
*2M: -4 Econ, +5% massive walls
We apparently have 100% walls, though admittedly most of them seem to be light walls. Makes Enforce Justice a bit less useful, but that's not really important right now.
Edit: Alright, it seems that we don't have 100% wall coverage right now. My bad.
Build Watchtowers - Stone and brick towers for warriors to sit in and scan the horizon for trouble, these towers can help stave off raids and improve response against attacks. (40% coverage)
*S: -1 Econ, +5% coverage
*M: -1 Econ, +10% coverage
We already have a lot of walls, but grabbing more watchtowers might come in handy. I wonder what happens if we get 100% massive walls and 100% watchtower coverage?
Found Colony - When a province gets too distant, sometimes it is best to grant it additional autonomy so that they can get down to the business of working the land and gathering resources without needing to talk to the king about every little thing. Current Target: None
*M: -4 Econ, -2 Martial, +4 Econ Expansion, founds colony to produce raw resources
Found March - Sometimes you need an extra buffer between you and hostile powers, or a place to stash excess warriors. Current Target: North-East
*M: -5 Martial, -2 Econ, +2 Econ Expansion, founds march to take independent martial actions
Found Trading Post - When doing long distance trading, sometimes having your own infrastructure in place at the other end can be quite useful. Current Target: None
*M: -5 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Martial, +2 Econ Expansion, founds trading post to generate Diplomacy
Colonies and Trading Posts are currently unavailable.
Improve Annual Festival - A festival for every season, but their expansion can help put the People at ease and teach good practices.
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects
* 2M: -3 Econ, +1 Stability, +3 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability: Legitimacy - 1
Have to admit, a part of me still wants to see what a double mained annual festival would look like.
Extended Projects- Extended Projects are major infrastructure projects that take more than a single Main action to complete but aren't as all consuming as megaprojects Saltern - Northshore Saltern Expansion (0/10), Southshore Saltern Expansion (0/10). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion gives additional Diplomacy and every 2 salterns or expansions increases the per turn Diplomacy by +1 Aqueduct - Redshore (0/8), Lower Valleyhome (0/4), Stonepen (0/6), Blackmouth (0/8), Sacred Forest (0/4), Redhills (0/6). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion adds +4 Econ Expansion and can allow for the formation of another True City Temple - Progress listed below, each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ and 2 Art for 2 Progress. Completion increases Religious Authority
And now we have Temples. I'm a bit annoyed that we haven't gotten around to doing any of these, but hopefully we can start working on them once the latest nomad horde is fought off.
The Library - The People need to store ideas, not records [LoW] [King] (2/4-6? Action commitment, -1 Mysticism and -1 Art per action, 1/2 Econ total commitment)
Library Mega-Project is likely to complete this turn. I say that we knock it off quickly so that we can concentrate on kicking nomad ass.
Grand Docks - With the new docks in place, further expansion to something of a more significant scale could be of benefit (4-6? action commitment, -1 Econ per action, will likely require a significant supply of timber)
So it turns out that we can actually declare war on someone to stop them from selling shinies. I'm just wondering how many turns it'll be before we invade someone for their oil to promote democracy in the region.
------------------------------------
VOTING
And now, for the only part of this entire post that actually matters: My votes.
[X] [Main] More Blackbirds
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
It's either Blackbirds or Restoration of Order. I'm going with Blackbirds this time because we need the Martial and I think RoR should be used with Proclaim Glory for best effect. Grabbing a Main War Mission because I really don't want to risk having goddamned nomads rampaging in our territories again.
[X] [Main] More Blackbirds
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
I have to say, I'm kinda curious how badly losing trade with the Ymaryn would hurt say, the HK at this point. If we can really curtail the flow of goods, and it can be traced directly to the King being at fault, we might be able to instigate coups or civil wars with the right amount of effort.
Having a button we can push to cost the HK stab would be fun, if not particularly useful right now.
Except having some kind of shared identity is what really helps make those things work. Establishing commonalities is of key import in such a scenario and onit's harder now to expand the us or them attitude to include multiple polities at this point.
I agree with you there - a potential merge can't just happen over night. They need a "shared identity" as you put it - I think our pantheon and faith could be that unifying force. All I am saying is that things change and continue to change. For instance, before two updates ago, did anyone foresee the Xoh and TH merging? Just keep a open mind on how much things can change.
We apparently have 100% walls, though admittedly most of them seem to be light walls. Makes Enforce Justice a bit less useful, but that's not really important right now.
A lot depends on where the brewing horde attacks. Allegedly they're after revenge, which means they should go after us, but unless they've come up with some superweapon to negate our advantages I don't expect more than a casual effort before they steer east of us.
How far east they go is the big question as I see it. If they just steer around us on their way south they'll hit the Highland Kingdom, but they're nearly as tough a but to crack as we are. More likely they'll steer further east and hit the Thunder Speakers as promised, in which case the Xohyssirian Empire may be distracted long enough for the Highland Kingdom to make serious gains.
I'm not really at all sure how strong the Xohyssirian Empire is right now in a military sense, but a big loss on their part could certainly split off the Swamp People again.
I think the Nomad reaction depends on how we fight them:
-Ymaryn Main(4 Martial committed) + Stallion Tribes Double Main + Symphony(Core + March Mains) + Eastern Nomads Double Main + Metal Workers Secondary MIGHT leave them deciding those other guys are better for loot.
So guessing at the ranges of results:
-Defense does well + Nomads does well = Nomads seek glory. Next turn will continue.
-Defense does well + Nomads does poorly = Nomads swear to get us for this, turns to slam into the Metal Workers, Thunder Horse, or the Thunder Speakers to get the prestige to attract a bigger waagh. Latter is more likely, as they are in less defensible terrain.
-Defense does poorly + Nomads does well = Nomads emboldened. Horde grows.
-Defense does poorly + Nomads does pooly = Shameful display. Nomads weaken, but will likely hit us again.
Of pilgrim types:
-Farmers
--Motives: Appeal to supernatural
--Expense: Primary expenses will be on travel and supply. Will tribute in stockpiled grain(much as it's like giving snow to an eskimo).
--Income: Likely to bring back stories and lessons rather than goods. Likely to bring back some talismans. Likely to seek farming lore from Ymaryn priests(which unfortunately they can't implement because it takes a full social unity effort to farm like we do)
-Traders
--Motives: Acquire trade goods and ideas. Acquire starmetal goods.
--Expense: Primary expenses will be on trade goods and arts as tribute, as well as bringing in lots of gossip and ideas.
--Income: Likely to bring home lots of gossip and ideas, as well as religious goods.
-Artisans
--Motives: Appeal to supernatural. Acquire starmetal tools.
--Expense: Primary expenses will be on acquiring religious goods and talismans. Will be bringing their own products and potentially their knowledge(generally people won't see anything wrong with telling the priests how they do it if it'd get them better supernatural intervention) as tribute.
--Income: Likely to bring home new ideas on art designs(so there'd be a profusion of knotwork and verdant imagery in regional art), though they would need to do something unusual to get techniques.
-Warriors
--Motives: Appeal to supernatural. Acquire starmetal weapons.
--Expense: Primary expenses will be on acquiring religious goods and talismans. Will be bringing their wealth to offer as well.
--Income: Likely to bring home stories and lessons more than anything else.
-Priests
--Motives: Religious exchange
--Expense: Primary expenses will be travel and food. Priests will be there to engage in spiritual debate and may try to purchase access to the library when it's done.
--Income: Most likely to bring home technologies. Will also be the most likely to syncretize our pantheon with their own and motion for expanded temples.
-Nobles
--Motives: Prestige, appeal to supernatural
--Expense: Huge expenses. Any traveling nobles will be making a big show of their wealth and prosperity by buying luxuries in significant quantities on the way. Most likely to bring formal technology trades.
--Income: Most likely to desire to copy some Ymaryn government concepts on the way back. Without the troublesome part where apparently other people can decide who is boss. Also probably want to raise giant herds of cows so they can eat veal every day. Also likely to try to trade for Ymaryn expertise.
Noting that some of the pilgrims will want to acquire starmetal, and inevitably some enterprising criminal will find it profitable to sell some at a ridiculous markup against central direction.
Probably would pop up as a factor later. If so I'd probably move to sell iron tools and weapons as ceremonial stuff, priced insanely high and runed.
The market is there after all, either we'd take advantage of it or people will smuggle it. If we officially sell some of the stuff as properly blessed and all, then they still wouldn't have enough for military use.
That and I'm rather amused at the idea of how the Thunder Horse will react when we're selling copies of their royal regalia.
If our holy site does become a major place of pilgrimage wouldn't that mean that large groups of people from outside our population will be coming in and observing all of the cultivated lands and forests on their way to the temple? That they would be exposed to just how much better things are in Ymaryn lands than in other places?
What effect would that have? No other society is as capable of feeding their populace as we are. We are the "Land of Plenty".
Now I don't want to get into baseless speculation, but could it be possible that by increasing the amount of pilgrims we get and by exporting our culture it could become easier to absorb refugees and convince villages to switch sides? Could it even make it so that the stability hits are lowered?
I say this because we get stability hits when refugees flee to us because we have to integrate them into a new society and our people become restless as strangers move in. But with constant pilgrims our population would become more used to outsiders and those same outsiders would have a much better idea of how to become one with our society. And when we go around to villages trying to convince them to join use they wouldn't be making a leap of faith, constant pilgrimes to our lands would mean those same villages would know just what joining us would mean.
I guess what I'm wondering here is if by exporting our culture will we make our schick of being economy vampires easier?
I think it might ease the Stability hits of refugees if they are culturally assimilated, but I doubt that's going to happen very soon(and then we'd have overreach issues too)
So it turns out that we can actually declare war on someone to stop them from selling shinies. I'm just wondering how many turns it'll be before we invade someone for their oil to promote democracy in the region.
While I get what you mean and agree to a limited extent, yes- I just didn't realize how much cultural influence the Xoh half would have in such a merge.
[X] [Main] More Blackbirds
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
[X] [Kick] War Mission
Slight change, because we have positive stab and a martial-hero-led nomadic swarm already pushing us back and threatening to knock out the MW and get bronze weapons
So it turns out that we can actually declare war on someone to stop them from selling shinies. I'm just wondering how many turns it'll be before we invade someone for their oil to promote democracy in the region.
Still, the king can't help but feel disquieted over it all. He restored order, but can his successors? And he knows that some of the conspirators slipped away, disappearing into the general population to... who knew?
@Academia Nut
I'm sure it's been asked but unfortunately not in a blurb long enough to trigger a thread alert that I remember: Just requesting an estimate of how close we are to dominant on Wine and whether a Secondary on Expand Vineyard would get us there.
I recognize it's already messy but is there a way at all to attach these to provinces? I don't really want to expand Temples that are closest to the frontline.
Build Glassworks - A new material discovered recently, new luxuries and trade goods could be made from relatively cheap materials
*S: -1 Econ, +2 Diplomacy, small chance of new innvoations *S: -1 Econ, +2 Diplomacy, increased chance of new innovations
Uh, no. First of all, I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that the mining and smelting professions were mostly aligned with the splitters, while it was mostly the lumpers behind this conspiracy. Second, these people are hiding among our people, not running off to a new land to go become a traitor.
Uh, no. First of all, I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that the mining and smelting professions were mostly aligned with the splitters, while it was mostly the lumpers behind this conspiracy. Second, these people are hiding among our people, not running off to a new land to go become a traitor.
The statement was that the categories are separate. In essence, even if we have a total that adds up to 100, that doesn't necessarily mean that 100% of townships are protected. Rather, it means that 60% of them have light walls and may or may not have walls of other sizes as well. Presumably, the most important 10% have 3 layers of walls.
I'm against kicking. With the change of RO it's no longer the super-efficient monster it used to be while at negative stability. It's still good when we're at least 3 below our legitimacy, but it's not as good as it used to be since Legitimacy costs a lot to recover.
We apparently have 100% walls, though admittedly most of them seem to be light walls. Makes Enforce Justice a bit less useful, but that's not really important right now.
Actually, {S} Enforce Justice guarantees 1 Stability no matter what it rolls. Since a large group of voters actually want to avoid raising Centralization (well, they want it via Trails instead), it gets better for us by not raising it as fast. It's only if we get something that eats Centralization like Pioneering Spirit that we'd prefer to be un-walled, and I don't think we'll find one of those soon.
(Also, as others have noted, it's not actually 100%)
Sure, it's possible, but it isn't the guarentee that you were suggesting.
Also keep in mind that other groups are not us. They don't get the passive acceptance of new tech as easily as we do, since CA is bullshit. We only learned bronze due to accepting refugees, everyone else has to actually put effort into finding new tech.
I mean, CA is about 90% of the reason we are so high tech even though we are reclusive as fuck.
)
