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A Light from the Shadow (Tolkien CKII)

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[x] Saruman
[x] Braca and Morwen together

[x] The warning dream you have had. Sauron clearly must be dealt with.
[x] The reintroduction of the Men of Dunland into the wider stage, and a clear defining of their territories for future diplomatic purposes.
[x] The 'Evil' that Hassan claims has risen in the south. Anything involving the Black Numenorean bears discussion.
[x] The condition of the orcs present and the efforts being made.
[x] The stories of returned heroes and kings and how they're undoubtedly Sauron's Nazgul.
-[x] Use this lead-in to touch on the issue of the rings and how the whole business of trapping the Fea in the Hroa works. Ask Saruman to offer any insight into the implications.
--[x] Use our shiny diplomacy stat to make sure Thrain's sensibilities aren't trampled over or his honor besmirched. Also make sure Gandalf doesn't butt in needlessly, or at least doesn't cut Saruman off as he seemed prone to do when he is concerned.
[x] Any issues the others wish to raise.
 
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Silver719 said:
I'm gonna say
[x] Saruman
[x] Braca and Morwen together
Saruman so we can discuss the condition of Thrain. It's a fair possibility that wearing the ring is making him seem to age faster than he truly is. As Saruman is best versed in ringlore, perhaps he can help find a way to keep Thrain's condition from deteriorating further.

Braca and Morwen so that they can keep their own feud from affecting matters of the wider world in this peaceful council. Gandalf brought them here, so we'll assume they're at least capable of such.

As for topics...
[x] The reintroduction of the Men of Dunland into the wider stage, and a clear defining of their territories for future diplomatic purposes.
[x] The 'Evil' that Hassan claims has risen in the south. Anything involving the Black Numenorean bears discussion.
[x] The condition of the orcs present and the efforts being made.
[x] Any issues the others wish to raise.

I find the lack of a Gondorian presence curious, especially if Hassan is here.
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Not mentioning the warning dream we just had, about Sauron getting off his ass and directing his war efforts?
Seems kinda important. I mean, propably a Valar-intervention to help us.
 
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Dol Amroth is a Gondorian fiefdom. Lothiriel is part of what could be called the second noblest family of Gondor after the House of Stewards.
 
[X] Braca
[X] Hassan

[x] The reintroduction of the Men of Dunland into the wider stage, and a clear defining of their territories for future diplomatic purposes.
[x] The 'Evil' that Hassan claims has risen in the south. Anything involving the Black Numenorean bears discussion.
[x] The condition of the orcs present and the efforts being made.
 
[X] Braca
[X] Morwen

If we managed to make peace between dwarfs and orcs, we can probably pull off some warming between those two.

[x] The reintroduction of the Men of Dunland into the wider stage, and a clear defining of their territories for future diplomatic purposes.
[x] The 'Evil' that Hassan claims has risen in the south. Anything involving the Black Numenorean bears discussion.
[x] The condition of the orcs present and the efforts being made.
[X] About our dream and what could it mean about Sauron's plans
 
Silver719 said:
I'm gonna say
[x] Saruman
[x] Braca and Morwen together
Saruman so we can discuss the condition of Thrain. It's a fair possibility that wearing the ring is making him seem to age faster than he truly is. As Saruman is best versed in ringlore, perhaps he can help find a way to keep Thrain's condition from deteriorating further.

Braca and Morwen so that they can keep their own feud from affecting matters of the wider world in this peaceful council. Gandalf brought them here, so we'll assume they're at least capable of such.

As for topics...
[x] The warning dream you have had. Sauron clearly must be dealt with.
[x] The reintroduction of the Men of Dunland into the wider stage, and a clear defining of their territories for future diplomatic purposes.
[x] The 'Evil' that Hassan claims has risen in the south. Anything involving the Black Numenorean bears discussion.
[x] The condition of the orcs present and the efforts being made.
[x] Any issues the others wish to raise.

I find the lack of a Gondorian presence curious, especially if Hassan is here.
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Hmm. I'd go for Braca and Hassan myself, but the topics make sense. As for Gondor, Dol Amroth are allied with them, aren't they? NVM, GM confirmed it's a fiefdom of Gondor and Lothiriel part of a royal family off-shot. She should have some news at the very least.

So, I guess I'll go with...

[X] Braca
[X] Morwen
[] Hassan

Changed to Morwen due to @ctulhuslp's comment. These two are the ones most likely to cause an explosion, we should head it off, especially if Hassan's issue becomes a prime focus of the gathering.

As for subjects of discussion...

[x] The warning dream you have had. Sauron clearly must be dealt with.
[x] The reintroduction of the Men of Dunland into the wider stage, and a clear defining of their territories for future diplomatic purposes.
[x] The 'Evil' that Hassan claims has risen in the south. Anything involving the Black Numenorean bears discussion.
[x] The condition of the orcs present and the efforts being made.
[x] The stories of returned heroes and kings and how they're undoubtedly Sauron's Nazgul.
-[x] Use this lead-in to touch on the issue of the rings and how the whole business of trapping the Fea in the Hroa works. Ask Saruman to offer any insight into the implications.
--[x] Use our shiny diplomacy stat to make sure Thrain's sensibilities aren't trampled over or his honor besmirched. Also make sure Gandalf doesn't butt in needlessly, or at least doesn't cut Saruman off as he seemed prone to do when he is concerned.
[x] Any issues the others wish to raise.

Saruman is pretty partial to dwarves, right? The Children of Aule? If so, he should be able to diplomance Thrain well enough here.
 
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GoukaRyuu said:
So is this like the Council of Elrond a few centuries early?
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A bit, the White Council is more general than the Council of Elrond who was really driven by "What do we do with the Ring". It is doubtful this one ends with the naming of a band of plucky adventurers though.

Note that in Tolkien the Council of the Wise utterly failed. They attacked Dol Guldur way too late for it to actually matters, stayed blind to Saruman's treachery and disbanded in abject failure with every member doing what they wanted.

That won't happen here. A central tenet of this quest is that, as a power of Fire, your reawakening and redemption basically drive every major power to act rather than let centuries pass without doing anything.
 
That implies that Sauron would accelerate his timetable as well.
 
UbeOne said:
That implies that Sauron would accelerate his timetable as well.
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He already has, as our dream showed. And everything else that's happened since the character selection.

Now one wonders what the central tenet of this quest would have been if we'd chosen any of the other options. There would be no worldwide Narya-like effect to lean on then.
 
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Karmic Acumen said:
He already has, as our dream showed. And everything else that's happened since the character selection.

Now one wonders what the central tenet of this quest would have been if we'd chosen any of the other options. There would be no sorldwide Narya-like effect to lean on then.
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Well most of the other choices would have begun the Quest much later, between Bilbo's discovery of the Ring and Frodo's departure from the Shire. So at a time where everyone is already moving. In a way the changes I made are possible because I spied the theory Daïn spied the Balrog in Moria after the battle of the East-Gate.

The Orc chieftain would in retrospective have been the hardest. No Istar power or heralding and an uphiil batle both to persuade the Elves of Rivendell and the Dunedain to not kill you, and to check your own nature.

The Umbari would have been easier as a Mannish kingdom can rejoin the Free People but would have involved dealing with Denethor (which while I'd have used the book characterization is still not a nice person), and the cults worshipping Sauron in the city.

While not central tenets I think the themes of the Orc quest would have been "The Shadow is cruel even to its servants" and the Umbari questions of lineage and legacy.

A Saruman quest would have involved some kind of corruption mechanic and blatant temptation on my part on how of course you can industrialize Isengard and of course you have this wondrous Palantir you can use to solve all your problems.

Don't know how it would have worked, I'm not very subtle but SB/SVers tend to follow easy paths to power very easily.
 
So, with these rumors about the Witchking challenging people to come to Minas Morgul, maybe the White Council could take it?
 
So I was thinking about the Ring of Power and how it doesn't do much of anything useful for dwarves, other than presumably guiding them to riches / gathering riches (somehow), which is redundant in Moria, which was dug out by Durin the Deathless before Ring Lore was even a thing. Before the Noldori elves themselves were a thing. That shows clearly that the greatest achievements of dwarves had nothing to do with the rings at all. I'd say we should do all we can to persuade Thrain to give it up, especially since it's been sapping his life rather than extending it, and boosting dwarven greed on the side. Moria is stupidly rich in ore of all sorts anyway.

We could even sweeten the deal and have Galadriel or whoever agree to supply the King (maybe the King's lineage) with Miruvor instead. Then either we or Saruman can keep or destroy the thing!
 
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Karmic Acumen said:
We would even sweeten the deal and have Galadriel or whoever agree to supply the King (maybe the King's lineage) with Miruvor instead. Then either we or Saruman can keep the thing!
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No, I don't think we want us or Saruman keeping it. I think we want it kept safely away from anyone powerful and potentially corruptible, or at the least kept under careful watch by multiple trustworthy observers.

We don't need to unfix Saruman or replace Saruman with 'that ex-Balrog wizard who is by the way in charge of a great many Dwavres and Orcs' for helping Sauron.
 
Terrabrand said:
No, I don't think we want us or Saruman keeping it. I think we want it kept safely away from anyone powerful and potentially corruptible, or at the least kept under careful watch by multiple trustworthy observers.

We don't need to unfix Saruman or replace Saruman with 'that ex-Balrog wizard who is by the way in charge of a great many Dwavres and Orcs' for helping Sauron.
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The DM said we, as a Maia, could handle it just fine. Only the One Ring would come with a corruption mechanic.

Unless he was being misleading, but he recently said he doesn't bother being all that subtle as a matter of course.
 
I confirm the Great Rings other than the One are not full of corruption for a Maïa. They carry a sympathetic connexion to Sauron who helped to make them but that's all.

It's a question on effect on the fëa. There is no discord between a Maïa or an Elf or a Dwarf fëa and hröa thus there is no wraithdom. The Rings can cause some of weary willpower or disposition to become more like themselves , thus inflaming dwarven greed but their corruptive effects are more in what they enable you to do.

The One Ring is inherently corruptive because it contains no small part of the essence and power of Sauron and is specifically attuned to the Discord. Thus everything it touches is tainted. Except Sam Gamegie for some reason.

The Rings enable Dwarves to become alchemists and with training a Dwarf Ringbearer can do the "I touch lead and transform it to gold" thing.
 
ganonso said:
The Rings enable Dwarves to become alchemists and with training a Dwarf Ringbearer can do the "I touch lead and transform it to gold" thing.
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Not without restrictions...

The Hobbit said:
"Years afterwards Thror, now old, poor, and desperate, gave to his son Thrain the one great treasure he still possessed, the last of the Seven Rings, and then he went away with one old companion only, called Nar. Of the Ring he said to Thrain at their parting:
'This may prove the foundation of new fortune for you yet, though that seems unlikely. But it needs gold to breed gold.'"
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Wasn't Thror's ring the ring of greed, that's how he got the dwarves who weren't of Durin's line to help him retake Moria when Nar told him of Thror's fate?
 
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