A Simple Transaction

Orm Embar · Apr 23, 2017

[X] Constitution
[X] Title: The Stranger

I'm not wedded to any of these options, but we did pick the Sheath as a safeguard against Seram's inherent frailty. More hitpoints will bolster that line of defense and let Seram carry more ammunition, on top of pushing himself further; additional waking hours mean more time leverage his already-formidable Wits. A Force Truly Evil (the Accursed favoring Presence: Intimidation and the themes of the Praxis make me wonder about a possible connection to Odyssial...) would be nice, but I just can't bring myself to vote in good conscience for an option with a name & blurb that references the Darth Vader vs. Hitler rap battle. Congratulations, you have finally created a blurb of such surpassing sickness that it's actively discouraging.

Wolfy · Apr 23, 2017

Rihaku said:
If Seram's ability to improve his body through natural training (rather than stat-ups) is unmodified, it could take you literal months to years to get 1-2 points in a stat.

Yeeeaaaaaah, "we can raise low stats" guys might want to reconsider their stance.

Fried brain · Apr 23, 2017

Rihaku said:
If Seram's ability to improve his body through natural training (rather than stat-ups) is unmodified, it could take you literal months to years to get 1-2 points in a stat.

This seems... very low for a normal human. Is Seram particularly bad at physical exploits?

Rihaku · Apr 23, 2017

ClawClawBite said:
Once we have some skills or are concerned with amounts of damage we can do strength. Our use of HP already gives us some extra toughness, but con does not synergyze.

Con gives more HP.

ClawClawBite said:
I think in the short term, Dex is the best force multiplier, as it will help us bootstrap to more range. Even a child's bow or a sling turns into a devastating weapon in our hands.

If you're going to be wearing that armor around, you'll want STR and CON to carry it.

Orm Embar said:
[X] Constitution
[X] Title: The Stranger

I'm not wedded to any of these options, but we did pick the Sheath as a safeguard against Seram's inherent frailty. More hitpoints will bolster that line of defense and let Seram carry more ammunition, on top of pushing himself further; additional waking hours mean more time leverage his already-formidable Wits. A Force Truly Evil (the Accursed favoring Presence: Intimidation and the themes of the Praxis make me wonder about a possible connection to Odyssial...) would be nice, but I just can't bring myself to vote in good conscience for an option with a name & blurb that references the Darth Vader vs. Hitler rap battle. Congratulations, you have finally created a blurb of such surpassing sickness that it's actively discouraging.

Constitution probably won't improve his waking hours at this level. Maybe if you get it to above 30+.

Fried brain said:
This seems... very low for a normal human. Is Seram particularly bad at physical exploits?

Oh, he's far worse than that.

roffster · Apr 23, 2017

Fried brain said:
This seems... very low for a normal human. Is Seram particularly bad at physical exploits?

I think it is a more realistic take on the gamer system considering the time frames we are dealing with. It's been stated that stats are extremely effective in short doses, so considering the entire capacity of baseline humans could probably fit within a 3 point differential.

Dark Abstraction · Apr 23, 2017

Fried brain said:
This seems... very low for a normal human. Is Seram particularly bad at physical exploits?

An average human has about 10 in physical stats. Seram is thirty years old and has Strength 3, Dexterity 5, and Constitution 4.

Seram is abyssmal at physical stuff.

Wolfy · Apr 23, 2017

Rihaku said:
You'll need DEX for bows... the string will likely snap if you apply that much force to it, better just to magnify the arrow itself given what Seram learned this update from his experiments.

I actually thought about that. If activating our power on the string prevents us from doing the same on the arrow itself.

Given that we can apparently accelerate ourself and still enhance our strikes afterwards, i guess that <Soul> is the key here?

Fried brain · Apr 23, 2017

Dark Abstraction said:
An average human has about 10 in physical stats. Seram is thirty years old and has Strength 3, Dexterity 5, and Constitution 4.

Seram is abyssmal at physical stuff.

I guess I misphrased my question. I understand he's abysmal. I was asking whether his ability to improve is equally abysmal. He could've reached that low point through simple neglect but have a normal human ability to improve.

GulibleLeprecon · Apr 23, 2017

Also if we can't reliably improve our low stats I will be very salty for us picking the GOTY: I understand it helped us survive, but we missed 75 stat points.

roffster · Apr 23, 2017

Fried brain said:
I guess I misphrased my question. I understand he's abysmal. I was asking whether his ability to improve is equally abysmal. He could've reached that low point through simple neglect but have a normal human ability to improve.

He probably does. There is a minimum floor in most physical activities beyond which you can expect decent improvement. Fall below that, and it takes an obscene an amount of effort to even reach that floor. Look at what happens to people who are bedridden for a serious time. It can take them months and years to even get out of bed again, but once they start, they can achieve a relatively good level of fitness pretty quickly after that.

There is also the fact that typical improvement in people occurs in general on the order of months and years. Try starting out at the gym and see how quickly you improve. It's not instant, or even relatively quick.

Rihaku · Apr 23, 2017

roffster said:
I think it is a more realistic take on the gamer system considering the time frames we are dealing with. It's been stated that stats are extremely effective in short doses, so considering the entire capacity of baseline humans could probably fit within a 3 point differential.

There are a lot of considerations. 10 is average adult and 30 is peak human, but consider Seram's environment.

Where is he going to get protein in sufficient quantities to maintain a fast bulk? Can he find the ingredients for a high-quality diet that prevents dirty bulking? If he does dirty bulk, will that make him far less effective in combat as his fatness and possibly diabetic blood sugar works to more than override the marginal increase in strength?

Where will he get weights? No modern weights, so he'll have to use improvised shitty weights around the village. Possibly dangerous.

When under extreme strain, the temptation to use his power will be immense, further reducing training effectiveness.

Does Seram actually have the willpower to stick to a strict training regimen? What if he's traveling around, can he carry enough food for bulking without sharply reducing his combat effectiveness?

And on top of all that, we have to consider the opportunity cost of the time spent attempting to organically increase physical stats. What's more productive, an hour lifting "weights" or an hour killing orcs? The latter is probably close to five hundred times more productive in terms of power gained per unit time.

Wolfy said:
I actually thought about that. If activating our power on the string prevents us from doing the same on the arrow itself.

It doesn't prevent you from doing so, but you may not benefit from wasting the effort.

Given that we can apparently accelerate ourself and still enhance our strikes afterwards, i guess that <Soul> is the key here?

What makes you think that? You can do so, of course, but there's no guarantee to there being any benefit to doing so.

Fried brain · Apr 23, 2017

roffster said:
He probably does. There is a minimum floor in most physical activities beyond which you can expect decent improvement. Fall below that, and it takes an obscene an amount of effort to even reach that floor. Look at what happens to people who are bedridden for a serious time. It can take them months and years to even get out of bed again, but once they start, they can achieve a relatively good level of fitness pretty quickly after that.

There is also the fact that typical improvement in people occurs in general on the order of months and years. Try starting out at the gym and see how quickly you improve. It's not instant, or even relatively quick.

I was speaking somewhat from personal experience. It took me - an average dude - around a year and half to go from from barely running 2k to running 20k through woodland. I figured Seram, with the benefit of Immortal Sheathe and a better reward system (the Gamer interface) would be able to do better.

Edit: nvm Ninja'd.

Orm Embar · Apr 23, 2017

roffster said:
There is also the fact that typical improvement in people occurs in general on the order of months and years. Try starting out at the gym and see how quickly you improve. It's not instant, or even relatively quick.

It's unlikely that a medieval world has the kind of facilities needed for training, or that Seram knows the relevant routines to optimize his growth. Also, consider what it would do to our mystique! A shady figure appears out of nowhere, wearing bloody gear, and delivers you all from certain death. Then, he promptly starts doing squats.

ClawClawBite · Apr 23, 2017

I'm hoping for a shorter term plan of Dex, Dex, Con, Str.

While bodybuilding is hard, we do have a decent education skill, so at least know some physiology and should be able to come up with a basic fitness plan, even if it is not optimized.

Rihaku · Apr 23, 2017

GulibleLeprecon said:
Also if we can't reliably improve our low stats I will be very salty for us picking the GOTY: I understand it helped us survive, but we missed 75 stat points.

Eh. That's kinda of like saying, "I know this Cauldron vial gave me all the powers of Eidolon, which helped me survive and accomplish all my hopes and dreams, but I'm very salty that I paid $75,000 for it. I could have invested that money into bitcoin and made millions!"

Orm Embar said:
And it's unlikely that a medieval world has the kind of facilities needed for training, or that Seram knows the relevant routines to optimize his growth.

Well, there might be body weight exercises he could do, but ironically he doesn't have enough DEX to safely do them.

vali · Apr 23, 2017

We can raise our physical stats to 30, max, via training. Realistically 20 is our limit.

Meanwhile, The Accursed was level seventy-three decillion, which works out to 365 decillion stats. You'll notice that this number is substantially higher than 20 or 30. That's because earning stats by using our magical cheating powers is much, much better than earning stats the hard way.

ohrasil · Apr 23, 2017

[X] Constitution
[X] Title: The Stranger

roffster · Apr 23, 2017

vali said:
We can raise our physical stats to 30, max, via training. Realistically 20 is our limit.

Meanwhile, The Accursed was level seventy-three decillion, which works out to 365 decillion stats. You'll notice that this number is substantially higher than 20 or 30. That's because earning stats by using our magical cheating powers is much, much better than earning stats the hard way.

I'm reasonably sure that taking on curses and doing quests is the hard way compared to some exercise.

Lealope · Apr 23, 2017

Orm Embar said:
(the Accursed favoring Presence: Intimidation and the themes of the Praxis make me wonder about a possible connection to Odyssial...)

I think that would be hilarious and dumb in equal measure. It's more likely that a supernaturally dislikable person decided to leverage his power into the only form of social skills that would actually work for him.

As for the Praxis, only half of the themes actually correspond with Odyssial's themes.

Rihaku said:
Access the Praxis, the Accursed's personal casting style. A style of magic that emanates completely from the self, relies completely upon the self, and is developed completely by the self. Advancement in the Praxis depends little on talent, much on effort and self-sacrifice.

What part of that makes you think of "Grace. Unasked for, undeserved?"

roffster said:
I'm reasonably sure that taking on curses and doing quests is the hard way compared to some exercise.

That's the fast way, the efficient way, the way that takes less time for more results. The way that we know actually works instead of this insane obsession with maximum potential that people have. It's a matter of opportunity cost. I'd rather spend time training Amplitude or fighting instead of just working towards a human baseline of physical competence because that's an infinitely more productive use of our time for both combat and utility improvements and it doesn't make Seram look ridiculous. Don't look so far that you trip over your own feet.

GulibleLeprecon · Apr 23, 2017

Rihaku said:
Eh. That's kinda of like saying, "I know this Cauldron vial gave me all the powers of Eidolon, which helped me survive and accomplish all my hopes and dreams, but I'm very salty that I paid $75,000 for it. I could have invested that money into bitcoin and made millions!"

Well, it wasn't necessary if we didn't pick a bunch of extra curses.

Cerillian · Apr 23, 2017

To add to that, Seram is also 30. He's old enough that physical improvements are starting to get significantly harder than they used to be.

On the other hand, this statement:

Rihaku said:
If Seram's ability to improve his body through natural training (rather than stat-ups) is unmodified, it could take you literal months to years to get 1-2 points in a stat.

Has a rather large 'if' in it. We don't actually know if it his ability is unmodified or not. I'm not sure it is safe to count on it being improved, but Rihaku has so far chosen not to inform us what exactly our infinite progression covers exactly.

So, in the absence of any real certainty, lets go with:

[X] Constitution
[X] Title: The Stranger

Con should be useful regardless of what happens. We're inevitably going to make mistakes, have risks turn out poorly, and find landmines the hard way. Best to have a good margin between 'oops, that hurt', and 'welp, char-gen time again'.

Kirbstomp · Apr 23, 2017

[X] Title: The Stranger
[X] Constitution

Da Boyz · Apr 23, 2017

Orm Embar said:
It's unlikely that a medieval world has the kind of facilities needed for training, or that Seram knows the relevant routines to optimize his growth.

You underestimate the power of the iMango.

Rihaku said:
Where is he going to get protein in sufficient quantities to maintain a fast bulk?

Clearly we will demand payment in food. A mysterious and ravenous force moving across the land!

Rihaku said:
Where will he get weights? No modern weights, so he'll have to use improvised shitty weights around the village. Possibly dangerous.

Isn't the entire point of the sheathe that we don't have to worry about that kind of thing? If we drop a dumbbell on our foot we just comically jump around on one foot for a minute then go back to working out.

Rihaku said:
Does Seram actually have the willpower to stick to a strict training regimen?

Does he? I mean the significance of Will Ranks isn't entirely clear, though you'd think that with enough Will you could power through that.

Rihaku said:
What if he's traveling around, can he carry enough food for bulking without sharply reducing his combat effectiveness?

Well unless we're planning on abusing Amplitude for fast travel then you'd think Seram would be better off hiring a wagon to get around if he wanted to have the time and space to work out.

Rihaku said:
And on top of all that, we have to consider the opportunity cost of the time spent attempting to organically increase physical stats. What's more productive, an hour lifting "weights" or an hour killing orcs? The latter is probably close to five hundred times more productive in terms of power gained per unit time.

At the same time stat growth doesn't seem to be linear so its undeniably more worthwhile to invest our level up points in a higher stat like Wits.

Rihaku · Apr 23, 2017

I'm curious why the Stranger is so popular. If the concern is advancement speed, surely Orcbane is the pick? Seram only won against the five orcs because he got insanely lucky and still had to use a re-roll, after all. If you can beat Orcs consistently that opens up a universe of training possibilities.

On the other hand, if long-term potential is at issue, the ability to develop a social Skill via A Force Truly Evil is incredibly potent. Normally you have to rely on organic improvement to improve your socialization ability. Granted, Intimidate is only used in hostile situations, but it can still defuse those situations. Or extort people into giving you shit without having to punch them.

Cerillian said:
To add to that, Seram is also 30. He's old enough that physical improvements are starting to get significantly harder than they used to be.

On the other hand, this statement:Has a rather large 'if' in it. We don't actually know if it his ability is unmodified or not. I'm not sure it is safe to count on it being improved, but Rihaku has so far chosen not to inform us what exactly our infinite progression covers exactly.

So, in the absence of any real certainty, lets go with:

[X] Constitution
[X] Title: The Stranger

Con should be useful regardless of what happens. We're inevitably going to make mistakes, have risks turn out poorly, and find landmines the hard way. Best to have a good margin between 'oops, that hurt', and 'welp, char-gen time again'.

That is the beauty of Constitution...

Fumbles · Apr 23, 2017

[X] Constitution
[X] Mark: Orcbane

Everything I know about DnD suggests these are the right choices.

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