The Uncrowned Heir: An Aerea Targaryen Quest
- Thread starter Susano
- Start date
- Fantasy
- Location
- Up ya bum!
Well susano can roll and break the tie. Or some nice person comes by? Fingers crossed for might and magic!
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan The Promised Heir Return
While both the leading plans are good, I lean towards mysteries not being the first step we take, while I miss not checking the Garrison learning about the commonfolk's opinions and observations has its potential benefits especially with having just summoned a number nobles to our shore.
While both the leading plans are good, I lean towards mysteries not being the first step we take, while I miss not checking the Garrison learning about the commonfolk's opinions and observations has its potential benefits especially with having just summoned a number nobles to our shore.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
To be fair so did Maegor. Maegor shows that while Balerion may be tough, the person riding him isn't nearly as so, a lesson that Ulf White and Hugh Hammer would learn well in future days. I'd say its almost a theme of GRRM's writing that the most successful dragon riders were the ones who didn't base their claims on just them riding the biggest baddess dragon around.
Maybe they just didn't base their claim around it enough?!
Maegor died sitting on the Iron Throne, he couldn't have done that if he was instead seated on Balerion's back.
Hugh Hammer had his guts cut out of him with a sword. I'd like to see Roxton do that while Hugh was riding Vermithor.
Ulf was poisoned... okay that might be doable on dragonback, but it'd real tricky not spilling all the wine before you could drink it!
UrbanAvena
Stair climber and vertical movement enthusiast
- Location
- In the stairwell and elevator shaft.
To everyone that chosen promised heir return I am interested to expand the lords focus to include the wealthy celtigar along with maegor loyalist as azarias explanation persuade me. What do everyone think?
Also @Susano do not focusing on the other lords mean we are not persuading them at all or it just we are not focusing on them? Thank you
Also @Susano do not focusing on the other lords mean we are not persuading them at all or it just we are not focusing on them? Thank you
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
The main difference is... well, with the groups you don't focus on, you will still try to get a good reputation with them, but with the groups you do focus on you will get more into the meat of things. Maybe not actually "Hey, I'm planning to topple Jaehaerys", but speaking more earnestly about the Jaehaerys' 'failings' as the people in question would see them, for example. Probing for support. Who then could draw their own conclusions - Aerea's position in the family tree isn't exactly a secret after all. But if Aerea is seen to try and curry favour with both Maegorists and Faithful, for example, that would have both sides re-evaluate how much her nice words really are worth. Same if she tries to make nice with everyone beyond the usual.
Aegon's claim absolutely came from his and his sisters' dragons and those alone. He had no other justification but right of conquest, and he achieved that conquest with a bare minimum of support in men and weapons. Basically the same tiny houses Aerea is now courting and nothing more. And the Field of Fire showed that he didn't need more than that. So yes, absolutely, having Balerion is by itself enough to consider yourself equipped to take over Westeros. Because, once again, Field of Fire. Of course, the difference is that now the other side has dragons as well, which is a rather large difference.
Currently it is 12-11 in favour of the Heir plan. Closing it in a few hours.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
I think Aegon actually more proves than disproves my point. For one, as you said, Aegon conquered Westeros not just with Balerion, but with the dragons of his sister wives as well. Aegon himself made sure to have dragon riding allies who actually wanted to support him, rather than basing his entire rule on Balerion alone, which could be dealt with by just killing him personally. In fact, people did try to assassinate Aegon, and Aegon himself is known to have openly claimed that the only reason why he hadn't been killed was Visenya's protection of him.
Beyond that though, aside from having enough tact to keep other dragon riders who wanted to be his allies, Aegon actually made real efforts to integrate the Iron Throne and its rule to Westeros. He made a point to let lords who bent the knee retain their titles, he had his coronation done via the rites of the cult of the Seven by the High Septon, he made a point of educating himself about local systems of law. In terms of his way of ruling Aegon had more in common with Jaehaerys than with Maegor, Ulf or Hugh. He didn't just go "I have the biggest dragon around, rawr" especially when it came to dealing with other dragon riders.
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UrbanAvena
Stair climber and vertical movement enthusiast
- Location
- In the stairwell and elevator shaft.
[X] Plan The Promised Heir Return
[X] Plan: Preparing to Rule
[X] Plan: Preparing to Rule
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
I do wonder if Rhaena has the will to kill her brother and sister though. As she said, Jaehaerys is unlikely to willingly step down, which means he and Alyssane would have to be killed for us to take the throne. While Rhaena did have some resentment over losing the throne, the writings that we have of her don't seem to me to suggest that resentment is outright murderous. If Rhaena isn't willing to kill her siblings to put us on the throne, than that means the prospect of having to fight a two on one battle between Balerion Silverwing and Vermithor, a dicey prospect. See how in canon Vermithor was killed by the combined efforts of the far smaller Seasmoke and Tessarion.
If we ever get the chance to separate Alysanne from Jaehaerys, we should try. I don't know if we can succeed, but if we can isolate Jaehaerys from his very capable wife, we should.
Unfortunately their marriage at this point is still strong; the truly awful things Jaehaerys does to her and to sideline her are still years in the future. But Jaehaerys now is the person who'll be an authoritarian and condescending husband in the future, so there may be cracks we can widen. They're already disagreeing over their children and female inheritance: Daenerys is their oldest living child right now, and Alysanne wants to name her heir while Jaehaerys is calling her younger brother Aemon the heir.
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There were also times when Jaehaerys should have put his foot down and told his wife no but didn't. Look at what happened to Viserra and Gael.
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I want to argue with you, but I don't want to derail this quest into a Why Jaehaerys Sucks As A Father, Husband, and Man referendum.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
We'll have to be very canny to do so, and would probably have to try to do it before we make a move for the throne. Removing Jaehaerys from the throne, after all, means removing Alysanne from the position of queen and removing all of her children, both Daenaerys and Aemon, from the line of succession.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
I'm not sure we have the stats to cuckold Jaehaerys. We probably would have needed higher Diplomacy for that.Not if we marry her ourself
On a serious note, I suggest we marry someone with a magical bloodline who can also give us a strong personal union. Two possible candidates are Eustace Hightower (who is currently supporting our bestie's adventure) and Corlys Velaryon (who is some 8 years our junior).Not if we marry her ourself
There is also the Starks, but they're pretty isolated from the rest of the realm's politics. Then again, their current head (Alaric) has bad blood with Jaehaerys for indirectly causing his older brother's death. Potentially with Alysanne too if she "persuades" him to surrender the New Gift. We can at least count on his neutrality in the upcoming conflict. Wiki claims his son wasn't married before 58AC, making him another candidate.
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Is there an unmarried adult Blackwood? That risks making an enemy of the Brackens, but we might be able to thread the needle. Both houses are still stinging over Aegon raising House Tully to be their overlord, and House Bracken in particular might be mad at Jaehaerys for sending one of their sons to the Wall for helping him against Maegor.
While Blackwoods do have magic genes, politically they aren't the (potential) juggernauts that the Hightowers, Velaryons and Starks are. Marrying their heir wouldn't give Aerea and her progeny as advantageous of a PU.
I hope the Tullys side with Jaehaerys so that we'll have the pretext to directly annex the Riverlands into the Crownlands. While they wouldn't be Lords Paramount, I'm sure the Blackwoods and Brackens would appreciate getting to answer directly to the Crown.
It's quite incidental that Eustace and Corlys are both sailors. Should Aerea demonstrate an interest in either of them as a potential suitor, it might indicate that she inherited her mother's taste in partners.
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- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
All those considerations are true, which is why Rhaena does need to be convinced. And even then how far she is willing to go will depend.
I mean, considering the vote was to try to take the Iron Throne, I feel like this discussion will still come up a few times
Well, technically by the same dynastic justifications Aerea would use to claim the throne, Jaehaerys would be her heir (assuming Septas are excluded from succession) as long as she doesn't have children herself, and then following him his children. Of course, that would probably only be a temporary state of affairs.
Corlys is 11 years younger than Aerea in canon (born 42 vs 53), with the two additional years of age given to Aerea here to avoid creepiness, it's 13 years. That's completely outside her age range. He is only 3 right now. And Eustace is married.
Though one thing to note is that we only have rather superficial canon information about that period. Seeing as Norman and Eustace took part in a seafaring adventure I'd bet their father was a younger son of Lord Donnel, not the heir, so there are probably more Hightowers around. Looking at the respective family trees at the time period, potentially a lot more unnamed Hightowers and Velaryons. And nearly no information about any given other House in the realm, save perhaps the Lords Paramount and the Crownlanders. Royce, Blackwood, Dustin, Banefort, Crane, Dayne, to name some houses who are said to have magic in their ancestry - who even knows, that is something I as GM would probably have to make up from scratch if the players show interest.
I.e., you can't just go by the wiki.
(though actually for the Blackwoods we have some indication, as one of Daella's suitors was the Blackwood heir. It seems he was a good bit older than her, but still that would still put his birth in the 50s, so well younger than Aerea, while his father is probably a half-generation older than her)
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Couldn't Aerea disinherit him and his line on the basis thay he usurped her rightful inheritence?
Has Rhaella taken vows as a Septa yet? I would assume that the vows of a novice are much easier to be released from than the vows of a full septa. We'd have to drag Rhaella kicking and screaming out of Oldtown either way, but the level of her vows probably matters to succession planning.
(Septas are in kind of a weird place if you're trying to view them through the lens of medieval Christianity that inspired the Faith. Septas are clergy, unlike real life Catholic nuns. Septas take confession and preach sermons, and there's no equivalent ritual to the Mass that only men may perform. On the other hand, septas are still women in a misogynistic society and are barred from the highest echelons of Faith leadership: you definitely won't see a woman High Septon, and it's ambiguous as to whether there are any septas among the Most Devout in canon.)