The Enemy Within (WHF Witch Hunter Quest)
- Thread starter Maugan Ra
- Start date
- Fantasy
[X] Kill your Brother
[X] Turn a Blind Eye
somewhatLazy
Serial Procrastinator
- Location
- lurking
[X] Turn a Blind Eye
I'm fine with either this or Markus killing Rikard (I kind of want to see our boy have a mental breakdown), but ultimately I feel like... It's just so cruel, to have Markus be responsible for personally putting a sword through his brother, right after realizing that his father surrendered himself to death to protect him?
Rikard is not a great person, but his stance on the Colleges is entirely understandable for a child who saw his Father put to death while trying to protect him from that. He's misinformed, possibly willfully so given his relative class... But if the Colleges aren't an awful fate, then what did his father burn for? Besides, we saw from our sister that even nobles can be largely working off general impressions and rumors about the magical side of things.
I'm fine with either this or Markus killing Rikard (I kind of want to see our boy have a mental breakdown), but ultimately I feel like... It's just so cruel, to have Markus be responsible for personally putting a sword through his brother, right after realizing that his father surrendered himself to death to protect him?
Rikard is not a great person, but his stance on the Colleges is entirely understandable for a child who saw his Father put to death while trying to protect him from that. He's misinformed, possibly willfully so given his relative class... But if the Colleges aren't an awful fate, then what did his father burn for? Besides, we saw from our sister that even nobles can be largely working off general impressions and rumors about the magical side of things.
- Location
- The End of Glory
[X] Turn a Blind Eye
- Location
- London, England
I don't believe "magic dampening jewelry" is a thing that actually exists? I know it has come up a time or two in other quests but I don't recall it appearing in any canon material.
Lots of discussion is always nice to see, I'll go through and give proper responses later when I'm free, just figured I'd chime in briefly on the bus.
Lots of discussion is always nice to see, I'll go through and give proper responses later when I'm free, just figured I'd chime in briefly on the bus.
Tabascoheath
Unkempt, Evil-eyed Charlatan, and Pseudo-Mystic
- Location
- Your Nearest Orbital Habitat
[X] Turn a Blind Eye
- Location
- Germany
The Wiki claims it at least?
The wiki, as usual is sparse with its quotes and sources.
Should be in Realms of Sorcery pg. 75-77, if they aren't making things up.
- Location
- Australia
WFRP 2e: Realms of Sorcery, pages 76-77
Markus' sister...is being "suspiciously social". It's suspicious that an immediate family member is trying to catch up and learn more about her brother's life and career?
- Location
- Australia
Kaiya, please remember that women are to be seen and not heard. If a woman vocally expresses interest in the life of a brother she hasn't seen in years, then either she's severely mentally ill (as in real life) or an evil vampire or Chaos cultist. It's just common sense.
- Location
- London, England
Huh, so it is. Well, fair enough then!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Turn a Blind Eye
I've gone back and forth on this. What ended up convincing me is that yes, this is a 'gray zone' enough that Markus might doubt his own judgement enough to NOT kill his brother. He'll feel guilty of course. It'll eat away at him that he's a hypocrite, that he's corrupt. But, well, of the two painful stings, I feel this is perhaps the more interesting one.
Though we should, with some regularity try to convince him. Perhaps talk to some people. Mind you, Spatin will probably resent a lil' bit that if it's our brother, apparently going to the colleges is optional. She'll call us a hypocrite and be right, but she might understand that we're human and not a law elemental.
I've gone back and forth on this. What ended up convincing me is that yes, this is a 'gray zone' enough that Markus might doubt his own judgement enough to NOT kill his brother. He'll feel guilty of course. It'll eat away at him that he's a hypocrite, that he's corrupt. But, well, of the two painful stings, I feel this is perhaps the more interesting one.
Though we should, with some regularity try to convince him. Perhaps talk to some people. Mind you, Spatin will probably resent a lil' bit that if it's our brother, apparently going to the colleges is optional. She'll call us a hypocrite and be right, but she might understand that we're human and not a law elemental.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think this explains a lot of Rikard's thoughts on the matter. He needs to believe the Colleges are bad, or he will have a psychological breakdown.
And Eddard Stark is a good man for it.
[X] Turn a Blind Eye
Besides, the follow-up will be interesting, whether good or bad
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I feel this one is overstating it. Yes. Untrained mages ARE a risk. But for one, our brother has no intention to actually cast something. He might be lying, but honestly, why would he cast anything. Mages, mages that actually cast spells, survived for generations untold without the colleges, and without constantly making demons pop out. Chaos is not some omnipotent force that flawlessly corrupts any mage that isn't trained.
Magic is a risk. A risk that is greater for an untrained mage. A risk that we're choosing to expose people close to our brother to by turning a blind eye. But if not being trained by the colleges was that bad, there wouldn't have been enough mages left to help Magnus.
Sertorius
Rebellious Legate
- Location
- Roma Invicta
Spatin was not a decision, that Markus had pondered upon, beyond his fantasy of a generic unsanctioned spellcaster he wished to redeem one day. His decision, once the truth came out, was made on the spot. Spatin had no choice, but to comply or be eliminated. Markus didn't say: think it through, we'll talk again tomorrow/a month from now/whatever. There is no time to think, no grace period, since the law doesn't allow it. Once a witch is discovered, it's the pyre or the Colleges, right here, right now. The reasoning is very sound: the witch in question can go bad and join Chaos, can have a meltdown and kill half a city unwittingly or simply disappear so as to never be found again. A spellcaster's word, that he does nothing harmful is insufficent, given the powers in question. Better safe, than sorry as they say.
The only redemption for Rikard here is complying with the demand to join the Colleges. Doing anything else is going against the law, against Sigmar and against the Empire, we are talking treason here, a very serious crime. There is also the matter of being a landed noble: he thinks himself above such mundane things, like the laws made for the rabble to follow. Hell, notice his contempt right here and now, both for the law and Markus' station, not just because he is his estranged brother.
We have offered Rikard a path to redemption, a path he has rejected outright and with scorn, unlike Spatin. Had we failed with her back then, we would have killed her without a second thought. The same goes for Rikard. He had his chance and spat in our face.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Sure. Because Spatin is not our brother. And killing Spatin would be, well, just a thing that would happen. This is our brother and killing him is completely shutting the door on our family life. It's a decision I could completely see Marcus make. And in some ways, the morally correct decision. The reason for us taking a chance on our brother but not taking it on Spatin are selfish. Corrupt even, sure. Like you said, we didn't doubt it with Spatin, but with our brother... well, Imagine if three days after burying him, Karl Franz suddenly goes 'actually, long as you don't cast spells, you don't HAVE to go to the colleges'.
But I'm fine with it. I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather read a Markus with some family connections who has to deal with the fact that he found that his dedication has limits, than read a Markus who has completely amputated a whole ass part of his life irreversibly. We'll need to get more involved, we'll need to come by more often. Both to see if we can't change his mind, and if it DOES turn out the risk we took has manifested, to do the needful.
After all, the 'turning a blind eye' doesn't have to mean 'alright, nothing for you, you get off with it' this time. We can absolutely say that we'll be coming by more often to... check up on him. Something we, as you know, his brother have perfectly good reason to do.
Note that heck, it does say that even our fellow witch hunters would understand and sympathzie. (And yes, they would still burn us but, ya know...)
But I'm fine with it. I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather read a Markus with some family connections who has to deal with the fact that he found that his dedication has limits, than read a Markus who has completely amputated a whole ass part of his life irreversibly. We'll need to get more involved, we'll need to come by more often. Both to see if we can't change his mind, and if it DOES turn out the risk we took has manifested, to do the needful.
After all, the 'turning a blind eye' doesn't have to mean 'alright, nothing for you, you get off with it' this time. We can absolutely say that we'll be coming by more often to... check up on him. Something we, as you know, his brother have perfectly good reason to do.
Note that heck, it does say that even our fellow witch hunters would understand and sympathzie. (And yes, they would still burn us but, ya know...)
It...didn't actually make it clear? It read very much like the follow-up explanation justifying the statement of him killing himself. I believe that you did mean it metaphorically, just, it was not as clear as you're saying, at least not to me. When you say something like "would not survive" and follow up explaining how critical this thing is to the person and the damage it would do, the natural read is that you're suggesting it'd lead to suicide because he needs his family and the possibility of redemption to keep going at all.
prometheus110
Join Cayman-Global & be part of the 1E-9 percent!
- Location
- La Ballena City Raft
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Turn a Blind Eye
We can't be a bitter noir cop figure who dies in the snow after saving the world/someone without a mistake or two.
We can't be a bitter noir cop figure who dies in the snow after saving the world/someone without a mistake or two.
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
I figured the portions that followed explained it pretty well that I didn't actually mean suicide. It's him shutting the door between him and his family forever. Note that I've never said he'd commit suicide in that post or anything of the sort.
I'm glad to have this misunderstanding cleared up.