Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
- Start date
- Original Art Quest Sci-Fi
0t4n1z3r019
Member of the HAFPTG
- Location
- Philippines
[X] OPLAN: Retort
11-8: War Emergency Program
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
What does the Senior Staff make of it: This is what was requested. Lay one down at the next available opportunity.
What is the HSWS immediate response?
- Demand additional resources from Home for construction of additional defensive stations (using torpedoes, lasers, missiles, smallcraft, and mines) to prevent repeat raids on our outlying systems until such a time as additional hulls can be constructed for active fleetships.
- Demand additional resources for reconstruction of the Deep Hope station and anchorage, with additional defensive capabilities.
- Maintain the two cruisers in Deep Hope for the time being, along with a courier for flash traffic.
- Deploy two frigates from the Home Force to Xyri to act as a tripwire until we can establish a defensive station for their orbitals.
- Send what little information we have to the Aslan and to Xyri and ask if they have encountered such vessels before and, if so, if they would be willing to share information on it and its source.
What is the focus of the debriefing of the DSMS crew? What can we learn about the enemy crew?
Available Budget: 849.239MCr
Current Dockyard Usage: 14,900Dtons
Current Pilot Usage: 81/80
Deep Hope
With the deaths of twenty-five service and civilian personnel weighing heavily on the minds of the HSWS, they launch into action. A rotating mission profile is developed to ensure that both Deep Hope and Xyri are constantly guarded in case this visit was the beginning of concerted enemy action. Simultaneously, several ships make runs out to those that might be considered the allies or at least friends of Home to attempt to gather further information on the enemy.
Excerpts from debrief interviews with surviving members of the Deep Hope Mining Station crew:
"As soon as they docked we had infantry coming aboard, armed men and women in full body armour. They shot three people for 'resisting'. They weren't resisting, they were just confused as to why we were being boarded. The captain ordered everyone to their bunk rooms and to stay there while he negotiated with them. I was there in the room when he refused to take apart a chunk of the mining rig to give them some quality cabling they needed to repair their drives. Their CO - a woman, I think, but she never took her helmet off - shot him without a second thought. That was casualty four, but it was only the start."
- Flight Lieutenant Nadege Droit
"They kept us in lockdown for two weeks. The rigs were shut down, the drones were silent. They tore apart what machinery they could get at for parts, filled their tanks with fuel and vented the rest into space. They never took their helmets off, but we got a couple guards talking - they're humans just like us. Or, probably like us? I don't know anything about genetic variance from baseline, but they spoke like us and walked like us and had guns that looked like we could use them. Barely thought about that though. Whoever they were, they were professionals. Never left us on their own with less than two of them."
- Shift Commander Serge Heimisson
"When the fleet arrived all hell broke lose. They went into crash preparations, running around lugging their gear back off the station. Left plenty at the segment locks though, turns out. We took advantage of it, what else could we do. Headed for the command stations, tried to get messages out to whoever had made them panic. Turned out it was all of y'all. Course, that meant that when they blew the charges, we were scattered all over the place. I think they tried to keep from breaching the crew sections. Fuck if I know. All I know is a bunch of my friends are dead and you all need to get off your asses and hit them back."
- Mining Drone Operator Neno Amiri
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News from Xyri comes soon, and they report no contact with any ships quite like it. In fact, they - the tripartite government - agree that they would prefer additional protections and agree to a military and economic alliance with Home that will see Xyri functionally become a client state and a responsibility of the HSWS. This will be carried out on the same guidelines as was conducted with Cassalon with some small, notable changes to reflect local needs.
This wont mean much for the HSWS, but we will be entering our 18th year with a marginally larger ship yard capacity and a marginally larger supply of pilots. Nonetheless, the perspective of the HSWS going into that year is that every little helps.
The Aslan response is more concerning. They have encountered ships as described previously, ranging down from far North on long-range jump drives and harassing the Aslan border with scouting and even raiding missions. They are not peculiarly effective raiders - it would seem their ships are geared up for long range flight rather than direct battle, but that also means that they have the ability to strike into rear areas if an aggressor isn't careful. The Aslan have never pushed too far North due to a sheer unwillingness to engage an enemy that could cause them undue issues. They would rather develop the systems they already have and get paid to go elsewhere. That said, they are willing to provisions warships at their usual contract rate of two-hundred-million credits per year per ship if the HSWS would require additional patrol forces.
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The HSWS will enter its 18th year with fresh resources, expanded yards and a new tranche of pilots even. While there will be 4,250Dtons of yards available, it is expected that 2,500Dtons of this will be devoted to the new diplomatic station for the Hermosan border.
Available Budget: 6,000MCr
Current Dockyard Usage: 14,900/19150Dtons
Current Pilot Usage: 81/100
What is the HSWS construction plan for the new year?
[X] Hermosan border station - 2,500 tons
[ ] Other - write in.
What is the Scout Flotilla assigned?
[ ] Map out the other side of the Aslan
[ ] Map out the other side of Garda-Villis
[ ] Map out the North and find our Enemy.
[ ] Other - write in
There are several ways we could build additional hulls simultaneously. Which ones appeal?
[ ] Paying the Aslan extortionate prices to build ships in their yards.
[ ] Converting civilian yards to war-use. We could build merchant cruisers and converted patrol ships here, though not line ships.
[ ] Other - write in
Please present votes as plans. Voting opens at .
Are there rules for building modular ships in traveller? I'm thinking that we need a "floating drydock" analogue, and if we build it in transverse sections, then we can build it with the spare tonnage we have and also scale the length as needed.
I think a support ship like that is very important. If not, then any damage we take either requires jumping a damaged ship (which risks horrible consequences) or trying to repair in situ with whatever we can scrounge up
I think a support ship like that is very important. If not, then any damage we take either requires jumping a damaged ship (which risks horrible consequences) or trying to repair in situ with whatever we can scrounge up
Can we build more minelayers there?
upd.
general write-in: Conduct minelaying wargames in Deep Hope - we can use parts of our own wreckage as targets for mine's weapon systems.
We do not really know yet how many mines can we lay, how soon, how reliable would be our control over them, and how visible they would be to enemy.
(Can we build stealth mines?)
Ship-building write-in: run the PlanetSide fighter program.
They would take time to launch and would not be great rapid-response forces. However, they can add to the orbital defence of our planets.
(I mean, in a situation we've talked about, "the enemy ship jumps into our orbit and launches nuclear missiles at our planet", planet side fighters would not probably launch and intercept those missiles in time. We would need orbital stations with carried interceptors and launch tubes for that.
But in case when the enemy ship engages something else in our orbit - say, defence station, or some of our ships, those planet-launched fighters-bombers-gunboats can jump in and add their fire. Unlike mines, which are more or less one-shot, these fighters can last more in fight. And unlike ship/station carried fighters, they can be whatever size - we don't need to fit them into a limited space.)
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4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
-[ ] Construction Plan
--[ ] Hermosan Station (2.5k tons)
--[ ] Additional modular modern defense stations from Aslan yards with upgraded armor and sensors (???? tons)
--[ ] Additional Flight II Frigates to replace Flight I craft and provide extended patrol capability (1500 tons?)
--[ ] CFA A and B Flight II with enhancements from newest technology (armor, enhanced weapons packages) from Aslan yards (3k+ tons?)
--[ ] Additional auxiliary minelaying craft (??? tons)
-[ ] Scout Flotilla
--[ ] Map out the North and find our Enemy.
-[ ] Additional hulls
-[ ] Paying the Aslan extortionate prices to build ships in their yards.
-[ ] Converting civilian yards to war-use. We could build merchant cruisers and converted patrol ships here, though not line ships.
We've got 6k MCreds to burn through but nearly enough yard space, so I feel like paying for the use of Aslan yards this time around is alright in order to get us more flex.
WRT to Flight IIs, I'm OK with builing more of the frigates although I could also be persuaded to see if we can get the Aslan to build us a line of 2k escort/patrol craft to start replacing the IC-III and Enhanced frigates altogether. Alternately, we can see if we can get some newer CFAs out since we have a LOT of stations and relatively few cruisers.
ALTERNATE to the alternate - ahve the aslan build us a patrol carrier (patrol carrier as, well, a front line patrol vessel to hold down stations seems like a decent use case).
We could also just have the Aslan build us a bunch of stations.
--[ ] Hermosan Station (2.5k tons)
--[ ] Additional modular modern defense stations from Aslan yards with upgraded armor and sensors (???? tons)
--[ ] Additional Flight II Frigates to replace Flight I craft and provide extended patrol capability (1500 tons?)
--[ ] CFA A and B Flight II with enhancements from newest technology (armor, enhanced weapons packages) from Aslan yards (3k+ tons?)
--[ ] Additional auxiliary minelaying craft (??? tons)
-[ ] Scout Flotilla
--[ ] Map out the North and find our Enemy.
-[ ] Additional hulls
-[ ] Paying the Aslan extortionate prices to build ships in their yards.
-[ ] Converting civilian yards to war-use. We could build merchant cruisers and converted patrol ships here, though not line ships.
We've got 6k MCreds to burn through but nearly enough yard space, so I feel like paying for the use of Aslan yards this time around is alright in order to get us more flex.
WRT to Flight IIs, I'm OK with builing more of the frigates although I could also be persuaded to see if we can get the Aslan to build us a line of 2k escort/patrol craft to start replacing the IC-III and Enhanced frigates altogether. Alternately, we can see if we can get some newer CFAs out since we have a LOT of stations and relatively few cruisers.
ALTERNATE to the alternate - ahve the aslan build us a patrol carrier (patrol carrier as, well, a front line patrol vessel to hold down stations seems like a decent use case).
We could also just have the Aslan build us a bunch of stations.
I think mines should be inherently stealthy - they're not emitting and they're cold, so there's no way to really differentiate them from a random chunk of rock until they fire up the thermal batteries and get ready to launch. If we're worried about that, seeding systems with small retroreflectors will act as permanent chaff to hide minefields.
My concern with planet-based fighters is they're only useful for close-range defence around habitable bodies. They also are positioned at the bottom of the gravity well, which isn't ideal. The recent flashpoints around Heimdall and Deep Hope would be unsuitable for ground-launched intercept.
On a different note, I found the rule in Traveller 2e applicable to a sectional floating drydock - what we'd want to do is have it be a "single" vessel with a breakaway hull. I'm envisioning something like the US WWII Auxiliary Floating Dock, Big/Advance Base Sectional Dock, where you have a bunch of transverse sections that you can dock front-to-end and use to work on an arbitrarily large spacecraft. Also, if Section is kind, each of the subsections of the big drydock are stand-alone ships that can theoretically be built with whatever spare tonnage we have and then combined into the big spacecraft(s) as needed. Thankfully, breakaway hulls are fairly economical:
We'd need each section to have a jump and maneuver drive, powerplant sufficient to move the section on its own, workshops and living spaces for the crew, fuel tanks, and a big "hangar" with partitions that can be opened to let it link with adjoining sections. This costs a little bit more than a monolithic drydock, but it gives us flexibility which will be useful. Also, if we are willing to accept the inefficiency of using these instead of purpose-built cargo vessels, no reason you can't fill the "hangar" with cargo, or use it to transport something like a minelayer into the system.
Edit: ABSD pictures to show what I'm talking about:
In our case, they'd be self-propelled, have crew accomodations built in, and be cylindrical sections with end-caps instead of big U shapes
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Given that it's explicitly called out as extortionately priced, do we really think it's worth it to ask the Aslan to build ships? With options like military hulls now being available, the cost per ton of our front line craft is going to go up even before we pay for someone else to make them.
Right now I'm leaning towards laying down a small ship (~2000 tons), and asking the civilian yards for another ~3000 tons of capacity that we will use for serial construction of sectional service vessels for the next few decades. That lets us hopefully build 4 military hulls in parallel alongside the civilian construction moving forwards.
Right now I'm leaning towards laying down a small ship (~2000 tons), and asking the civilian yards for another ~3000 tons of capacity that we will use for serial construction of sectional service vessels for the next few decades. That lets us hopefully build 4 military hulls in parallel alongside the civilian construction moving forwards.
Maybe. Bot probably not the Escort Carrier - I imagine it would be way way waayy too expensive. The 3kton CFA flight II though? Or flight II MDS? Maybe.
as I understand, we don't have 2ktons available now - only 1.7K. Which is why I proposed the fighter thing.
Yes, it's the second last line of defence for planets purely (before the ground-based guns and silos), but we would not need the tonnage for stations/carriers for them. (and we do not have one ot the point).
Though we can order, say fighter station from Aslan, and build the fighters ourselves, to cut costs.
I'm hesitant to ask for a Flt II MDS because I kinda want to ditch the MDS as our "main-line" defensive station. Conceptually, I'm leaning towards autonomous sensor platforms and minefields networked to a big, 5,000 ton station with a military hull (for the added armour and PD). Yeah, it'd be expensive, but if we do one per hex, it's not that many.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
The main benefit of the MDS is that we can build it in our yards and then move it somewhere else. That'll be an issue with the 5k version.
That's not an issue if we build a vessel which can transport a 5 kton station, which I want to do anyways. It'll be extremely awkward if we go attack, say, Hermosa only for our fleet to be stuck deep in Hermosan space because one of the ships has a damaged jump drive and we can't drag it home (and we're not going to leave it there).
If our transport vessel is also our sectional repair ship, then we can even break it into pieces to transport smaller stuff!
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Yeah, but we also need defense stations right now and aren't going to have said modular ship/workshop for a few years at least.
Is it necessary that it be able to jump with a ship in dock?
Thinking something like Battletech's yardships where the drydock space expands/unfolds around the target vessel.
If the yard volume is going to be empty and otherwise unused in transit, and the thing doesn't need to move while working, it feels like you could save a lot of fuel and ship volume by having the dock fold itself up.
I don't think it needs to, but having it be able to jump with a ship in dock means we can also use it to haul around other things. We won't need a drydock unless we're anticipating casualties, and when this isn't linking together to repair ships, we can use it as a ferry for cargo or smaller vessels without jump drives.
-[ ] Construction Plan
--[ ] Our yards:
---[ ] Hermosan Station (2.5k tons)
---[ ] Additional Flight II Frigates x3 (1.5k tons, 500 ton each)
--[ ] Paying the Aslan extortionate prices to build ships in their yards.
---[ ] Additional modern defense station flight II from Aslan yards with upgraded armor and sensors x2 (2500 tons each)
---[ ] CFA A and B Flight II with enhancements from newest technology (armor, enhanced weapons packages) from Aslan yards (3k - as many as our remaining budget would allow)
--[ ] Converting civilian yards to war-use. We could build merchant cruisers and converted patrol ships here, though not line ships.
---[ ] Additional auxiliary minelaying craft x1
-[ ] Scout Flotilla
--[ ] Map out the North and find our Enemy.
-[ ] Other - run training minelaying misison in Deep Hope. Determine how many mines our minelayer can lay and how quickly. Run exercises with mines "firing" inactive weapons on a pair of ICs - to check if there would be targetting issues. Check how well ICs and frigates can detect and target the mines.
-[ ] Other - Select some suitable ship(s) (maybe un-mothball the MMV?) and contact Noctocole. Warn them about this sudden northern threat, with info both from our run-in with them and whatever we've got from Aslan. Exchange the starmaps, preferably on North (and brief them on Hermosa too). Inquire if they are interested in defence cooperation, since we have at least two "interesting" common neighbours - we can get their diplomatic team to Cassalon and discuss that there.
I think if we are lucky enough, maybe we can get some useful deal with Noctocole/Plenty? Such as some common warship project (which maybe will be cheaper than renting Aslan yards), map exchange, tech-sharing?
--[ ] Our yards:
---[ ] Hermosan Station (2.5k tons)
---[ ] Additional Flight II Frigates x3 (1.5k tons, 500 ton each)
--[ ] Paying the Aslan extortionate prices to build ships in their yards.
---[ ] Additional modern defense station flight II from Aslan yards with upgraded armor and sensors x2 (2500 tons each)
---[ ] CFA A and B Flight II with enhancements from newest technology (armor, enhanced weapons packages) from Aslan yards (3k - as many as our remaining budget would allow)
--[ ] Converting civilian yards to war-use. We could build merchant cruisers and converted patrol ships here, though not line ships.
---[ ] Additional auxiliary minelaying craft x1
-[ ] Scout Flotilla
--[ ] Map out the North and find our Enemy.
-[ ] Other - run training minelaying misison in Deep Hope. Determine how many mines our minelayer can lay and how quickly. Run exercises with mines "firing" inactive weapons on a pair of ICs - to check if there would be targetting issues. Check how well ICs and frigates can detect and target the mines.
-[ ] Other - Select some suitable ship(s) (maybe un-mothball the MMV?) and contact Noctocole. Warn them about this sudden northern threat, with info both from our run-in with them and whatever we've got from Aslan. Exchange the starmaps, preferably on North (and brief them on Hermosa too). Inquire if they are interested in defence cooperation, since we have at least two "interesting" common neighbours - we can get their diplomatic team to Cassalon and discuss that there.
I think if we are lucky enough, maybe we can get some useful deal with Noctocole/Plenty? Such as some common warship project (which maybe will be cheaper than renting Aslan yards), map exchange, tech-sharing?
@4WheelSword Can we expect the increased budget to continue next year, or is this a one-time thing?
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
There are three 'states' that your budget (or rather, taxation) can be under. They are Peace, Tension and War. You are currently in 'Tension' and that will end with either the resolution of the crisis or a failure to act on the part of the HSWS. It can also end if you go to active war.
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
I've made a mistake. I forgot to increase your yards according to tech level. On an average TL of 9, you have (i think) 21,500Dtons of yard space.