Starfleet Design Bureau

Anyway.





Some Terran Empire Engineer, probably; "I like big nacelles and I cannot lie-"
(The Class C is BEEG. and expensive. and technically performs better than the Type Three... if you ignore being Mucho Expensivio. and the fact that it occasionally catastrophically explodes or slags itself because they just piled on as much performance as possible, ha)

Where can I find part 1?
 
If the brief says 32 shuttles are twice as good at Engineering tasks as 16 that means 32 shuttles are twice as good at Engineering tasks as 16.
NOT "we are idiots and we don't actually have the capacity to effectively service all these shuttles so 16 are actually better at engineering tasks".

Because a max shuttle design is not optimized for cargo loading. I don't understand the confusion here. If it was as good at moving cargo the other option would be like 1 cargo and 30 shuttles. 32 drive through lanes have a different purpose than 16 loading docks. Both serve that purpose well but trying to do one with the other isn't going to give you the best possible result in either direction.

Why would the pod be designed to handle throughput of double what any platform we've put in space can do? If these are fairly common units they'd be designed to handle something far more reasonable like 2-4 shuttles worth at a time (call it 10 on a continuous loop).

Or as another commenter mentioned:
The shuttle bay is optimized for shuttles doing things, being out doing sensor sweeps or powering local projects or taking samples of asteroids.

The loading bay is optimized for moving cargo with shuttles.
 
In theory, it could easily come to be the case that the standard bulk hauling cargo pod (or a variant used in situations where it matters) includes its own loading dock (though not its own shuttles) if throughput from the pod to the shuttles becomes an actual issue on a fleet wide or greater scale.
 
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Art: Caravan Modular Space Station
@Sayle
Article:
Proposal: Fully Containerized Rapid Assembly Modular Station ("Project Caravan")

The Hally project's ability to carry Federation standard cargo containers has resulted in speculative discussion on the use of modular cargo pods as mobile infrastructure. The following proposal suggests the creation of a modular system of containerized infrastructure which can be used to assemble small to medium sized outposts rapidly in the field, which has significant implications for both the Starfleet and the Federation as a whole. Outlined below are the two principal approaches to the concept.

Single Core Design

The single core design is best suited for establishing small outposts on a semi-temporary basis. Under the single core paradigm, a single "core" module contains the station's primary systems, including power and shield generation, life support, operations, and living quarters. These basic capabilities are then expanded by the addition of dedicated modules (additional living quarters, shutlebays, manufacturing, etc) radially to the station. Due to the relatively small size, however, it is likely that such a design could support no more than five to six additional modules at the outside, depending on exact configuration. On the other hand, these designs would be considerably easier to "break down" for reuse elsewhere.

Multi-Core Design

The multiple core design is aimed at the construction of larger, more permanent installations. In the multi-core paradigm, each "core component" of the station—shield generators, power plants, operations, living quarters, etc—is separately containerized and then assembled in the field into a multi-module core. The obvious advantage in being able to use far larger "working components" is clear, allowing for a much larger number of secondary modules to be supported. Naturally, this design, being larger, would require more time and effort to "break down" and therefore would be best suited to more permanent installations.

Applications Outside Starfleet


In addition to the obvious advantage to the Starfleet's scientific, humanitarian, and military missions, the creation of fully containerized infrastructure in this fashion has obvious applications for the Federation as a whole for the rapid assembly of spaceborne infrastructure. A "civillainized" version of the Caravan could allow the construction of critical orbital infrastructure in days, possibly even hours, even—or perhaps especially—for very young colonies not able to support local construction on that scale out of their own resources.



 
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You were talking about shuttle crew (224 going by your commentary) I am also talking about shuttle crew, telling you what the actual dedicated shuttle crew count would be.

Logistics and support crew are probably n*3 or something like that, which would be 96 to 192 for the high capacity choice.
I agree, it's a huge amount of personnel needed for 1 function given the size of the ship we're building. I'm also confused as to why a large chunk of our shuttles aren't workbees or repair drones? Why so many personnel/light transport ships??

I'm also confused as to how having more shuttles contributes to higher engineering scores. I can see why it would synergize if we're transporting the hull plating for a starbase, but the shuttles can only fly around, take basic scans, ferry personnel and cargo and do a few other auxiliary functions. They don't typically come with space welding rigs and engineering/construction facilities do they?? Why do we lose engineering score for having less shuttles??

And we are still going to have 16 of them. That's two large shuttle bays.

Meanwhile every bit of cargo space we squeeze out means bigger projects can be done in a single trip. The limit of how much we can do in a system is not limited by our shuttles. They speed it up, but the fundamental limit to what we can do in a single trip is critical materials and components we cannot source on site.

Once we run out we have to fly back to a developed system where we can pick more up, time our extra shuttles will spend useless in their docks.
I also agree with this. It may, may take slightly longer, but that's enough materials to set up an entire colony or do major repairs on a stranded starship. Also means we can stop off elsewhere to pick up parts etc and be reliably able to say, "yes we can also ferry the extra recycled props from the other show that are important totems key components."

Honestly I am not sold on antimatter. We invested in antimatter producing stations and if we REALLY need to extend the range of our fleets I would rather build more or those.

Depends strongly on what the other options are.
I'm very leery of having starships generate antimatter. If someone needs a bit to get back to base, why not share some from our own antimatter tank and just schedule our antimatter refill a bit earlier?
 
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Aheh. AHAHAHAHAHAHA-










Let's Commit some Warcrimes~

Anyway.





Some Terran Empire Engineer, probably; "I like big nacelles and I cannot lie-"
(The Class C is BEEG. and expensive. and technically performs better than the Type Three... if you ignore being Mucho Expensivio. and the fact that it occasionally catastrophically explodes or slags itself because they just piled on as much performance as possible, ha)

I really over both of these. While I understand that was mostly for budget reasons I dislike it when mirror universe designs are just Starfleet ships with different paint jobs and a few extra cannons tacked on. Military only ships are going to be designed very differently from multi-role Starfleet ships, and your art actually reflects that.
 
[X] Shuttledeck [8 Engineering, 32 Type-F Shuttlecraft]

As an engineering ship, sitting around for a couple weeks while doing stuff isn't unexpected and having almost 2x more shuttles to do stuff with during that period is a lot more useful than a small boost to cargo space. The big advantage of the internal cargo bay is that it's more protected in case of enemy attack, but that's not enough to make up for the sacrifice in engineering capabilities IMO. We shouldn't plan on dropping the pod very often, the only time the extra cargo is a significant benefit, but we very much can expect that those shuttles will frequently be put to good use.
 
Aheh. AHAHAHAHAHAHA-










Let's Commit some Warcrimes~
So this is an alt-Sagarmatha, stuffed to the gills with every weapon the Empire could get its greedy hands on... I assume this is a post-Hoshi Sato design, as I felt she wouldn't want any Terran Captain to have a vessel that could singularly outgun ISS Defiant and depose her that way.

The 'Emperor Africanus' I alluded to succeeding her was basically supposed to be an ahead-of-his-time M'Benga, because the knife-fighting-expert doctor aesthetic would go so well in the Mirrorverse. I didn't have any opinions on his policies, aside from not sharing Hoshi's personal hang-ups...

I feel the Conqueror's biggest drawbacks would be an immense thirst for antimatter fuel, the extreme cost of their construction, and the intense politicking/scheming/murdering to see who gets to sit in the Captain's chair. On the other hand, they'd be just about unstoppable once they've got a target to go conquer...

Anyway.





Some Terran Empire Engineer, probably; "I like big nacelles and I cannot lie-"
(The Class C is BEEG. and expensive. and technically performs better than the Type Three... if you ignore being Mucho Expensivio. and the fact that it occasionally catastrophically explodes or slags itself because they just piled on as much performance as possible, ha)
Looks suitable to be a long-distance scout frigate, enough to go out and find unsuspecting strange new worlds, pirate a few vessels to plunder their memory banks and prisoners, and then return home in glory with a plan to invade them! Captains of Arrow class ships should be extra-strict with their crews, as barracks space is limited and amenities other than the agonizer nonexistent; and to keep loyal guards on the stocks of real food in the secondary hull's storage compartments, to keep bored/unruly crew from consuming or poisoning it. (At least one Captain was lucky enough to have both happen at once, finding a gluttonous ensign dead in sickbay, and being able to follow the clues to the poisoner!)

I really over both of these. While I understand that was mostly for budget reasons I dislike it when mirror universe designs are just Starfleet ships with different paint jobs and a few extra cannons tacked on. Military only ships are going to be designed very differently from multi-role Starfleet ships, and your art actually reflects that.
It does fit that some ship designs are at least visually identical from the outside, because the plot often demands that a crossed-over vessel be able to masquerade as their counterpart! Plus they literally keep poaching ship designs from the Prime Universe, (See: USS Defiant, and USS Defiant... Starting to see a pattern here, anyone?)
 
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I agree, it's a huge amount of personnel needed for 1 function given the size of the ship we're building. I'm also confused as to why a large chunk of our shuttles aren't workbees or repair drones? Why so many personnel/light transport ships??

I'm also confused as to how having more shuttles contributes to higher engineering scores. I can see why it would synergize if we're transporting the hull plating for a starbase, but the shuttles can only fly around, take basic scans, ferry personnel and cargo and do a few other auxiliary functions. They don't typically come with space welding rigs and engineering/construction facilities do they?? Why do we lose engineering score for having less shuttles??


I also agree with this. It may, may take slightly longer, but that's enough materials to set up an entire colony or do major repairs on a stranded starship. Also means we can stop off elsewhere to pick up parts etc and be reliably able to say, "yes we can also ferry the extra recycled props from the other show that are important totems key components."


I'm very leery of having starships generate antimatter. If someone needs a bit to get back to base, why not share some from our own antimatter tank and just schedule our antimatter refill a bit earlier?
No, you misunderstand. We built antimatter generating space stations and have been spreading them down the space lanes for multiple decades now. My whole point is that while huge antimatter tanks are nice on a ship the fact that we put so much effort into ensuring refuel is never too far away means I am likely going to value extra antimatter tanks on a ship as less compared to other potential uses of that space.

Not ships producing antimatter.
 
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@Sayle

Proposal: Fully Containerized Rapid Assembly Modular Station ("Project Caravan")

It's glorious. And a callback to the heady early days of human space exploration with the original orbital stations. In some ways modern technology and fabrication has spoiled us with the possibility of on-site bespoke design. Modular, connected components adaptable to the mission can allow the delivery of customized starbases in rapid order with minimum assembly. Especially if these components, themselves, can deploy for further expansion and lab space.

This approach allows us to, essentially, look forward through looking backward. Inflatable components reinforced with locally sourced brick, expanding collapsible segments, and other such features of the age when all features were on a hair thin budget can be combined with modern material and fabrication science to let a quick-deployment outpost become a long lasting and productive feature and minimal cost.

On a personal note, something that has really grown on me from the original Mass Effect games was the modular technology, and how much use they got out of the same digital props. Just like people with a small number of prefab structures and parts they can order from a catalogue would do. Andromeda took that same aesthetic but with a tech upgrade, allowing them to show the flexibility and personal customization you'd actually see in such a space. The only thing lacking were murals and graffiti all over the place.
 
[X] Loading Deck (4 Engineering, 16 Type-F Shuttlecraft, 6 Cargo]

Seriously, 20 Shuttlecraft is enough. We're not building a carrier or a mobile starbase here.
 
So this is an alt-Sagarmatha, stuffed to the gills with every weapon the Empire could get its greedy hands on... I assume this is a post-Hoshi Sato design, as I felt she wouldn't want any Terran Captain to have a vessel that could singularly outgun ISS Defiant and depose her that way.

The 'Emperor Africanus' I alluded to succeeding her was basically supposed to be an ahead-of-his-time M'Benga, because the knife-fighting-expert doctor aesthetic would go so well in the Mirrorverse. I didn't have any opinions on his policies, aside from not sharing Hoshi's personal hang-ups...

I feel the Conqueror's biggest drawbacks would be an immense thirst for antimatter fuel, the extreme cost of their construction, and the intense politicking/scheming/murdering to see who gets to sit in the Captain's chair. On the other hand, they'd be just about unstoppable once they've got a target to go conquer...


Looks suitable to be a long-distance scout frigate, enough to go out and find unsuspecting strange new worlds, pirate a few vessels to plunder their memory banks and prisoners, and then return home in glory with a plan to invade them! Captains of Arrow class ships should be extra-strict with their crews, as barracks space is limited and amenities other than the agonizer nonexistent; and to keep loyal guards on the stocks of real food in the secondary hull's storage compartments, to keep bored/unruly crew from consuming or poisoning it. (At least one Captain was lucky enough to have both happen at once, finding a gluttonous ensign dead in sickbay, and being able to follow the clues to the poisoner!)


It does fit that some ship designs are at least visually identical from the outside, because the plot often demands that a crossed-over vessel be able to masquerade as their counterpart! Plus they literally keep poaching ship designs from the Prime Universe, (See: USS Defiant, and USS Defiant... Starting to see a pattern here, anyone?)
I actually have a full DTI writeup for the Conqueror comparing it to current Prime Timeline ships, I'll post that later (there's a thing that goes with it I have to finish first).
The summery is it's big, fast, and kills stuff good, but is absolutely rubbish at anything other than killing stuff good, costs a mint to build, and guzzles down fuel like a pack of starving hyenas eating a treacherous lion.
 
Yeah I'm bothered at this point about people assuming the Orb was a meme choice. It works really well for this kind of ship
 
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