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The Enemy Within (WHF Witch Hunter Quest)

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Orbmorb said:
Are wizard lords nobility, legally speaking?
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Wizards are not Nobility, they don't have the inherent rank, titles, land etc.

However, under the Articles of Magic, Wizards do have the rights and protections of nobility
All Magisters may expect to receive accommodation, benefits, respect, and fair treatment, as would befit any noble of Sigmar's Holy Empire, while in the employ of the Electors of Sigmar's Holy Empire.
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The "employ of the Electors of Sigmar's Holy Empire" bit is a bit vague depending on how you choose to interpret it
The strictest and most uncharitable interpretation would be that you only have that benefit if you're working directly under an Elector, but that would be a very redundant law and is almost certainly not how it's intended to be read
This being a Feudal society, any service to the state would be considered working for the Electors of Sigmar's Holy Empire

It should also be noted that "Magisters" almost certainly includes Journeymen in this context
"Journeyman" isn't a job descriptor on its own, you're a journeyman 'something', in this case a journeyman magister/wizard
Apprentices are similarly covered by the protection of their master as well
 
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The nobility comparison might be another way to get at the slave soldier argument, honestly. After all, nobles are expected to ride to war at their liege lords call as well, unless they serve empire otherwise. No one calls them slaves for it.
 
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Whoops, just realised that the banner gives the wrong impression. Going to close that briefly, and then open again in a moment by making a vote post out of the options people have proposed.
 
Maugan Ra said:
While this is true, I think it is worth stressing that Markus doesn't actually know the exactly mechanisms of wind-based spellcasting. He knows that the magic taught by Teclis is different to the magic that people like the hedgewise use, and that one is deemed safe and the other dangerous and inherently corrupting, but he lacks the theoretical knowledge base to explain why this is the case.

You can still make that argument, and it might even work, but it's an argument that Markus would be making on a foundation of dogma, and a witch is almost always going to be starting from a position of "sigmarite dogma is clearly bullshit and even if there is a danger then I would simply Handle It".
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Would it be fair to assume Markus has looked into the actual mechanisms of the college's recruitment? I think pointing out that journeymen are de facto free to do whatever they please so long as its not contrary to the interests of the empire may be important here
 
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Ok! Since it looks like just making this a pure write-in vote has resulted in some discussion but no consensus on wording etc, I have decided to instead make this a vote about which approach to take. Sub-votes with specific arguments are allowed and encouraged, but not necessary.

-/-

Choose One or More of the following to focus on. The option with the most votes will be Markus' first argument. Should that fail, he will attempt the second-most popular argument as a fall-back (at a penalty)

[ ] Knowledge
Spätin appears to be very interested in various kinds of magical lore. There is no greater source of arcane learning available to a human than the Imperial Colleges of Magic. Training as a magister is simply the price of admission.

[ ] Danger
Magic is dangerous to one's body and soul, especially if performed untrained. A rogue wizard is also prey for daemons, cultists, criminals and, regrettably, witch hunters. Joining the Colleges will protect Spätin from all of these threats and more.

[ ] Community
The single greatest resource the Colleges have to offer is the company of fellow wizards, people who understand in a way that perhaps nobody else ever could. A chance to live among ones peers, unafraid; surely this is worth the cost?

[ ] Wealth and Power
Wizards can obtain great material wealth through their work, and they are also accorded the rights and privileges of nobility under imperial law. For a common-born woman like Spätin, this is easily the most comfortable life she can hope to have.

[ ] Duty
Spätin could have remained just another festival-goer, but she chose to work with a Templar to hunt down a chaos-tainted mutant, and she stood against a daemon and did not run. Clearly this matters to her on at least some level, and she should embrace it.

[ ] Freedom
Being a wizard is not so constraining as Spätin fears. They can travel freely, accept work from a multitude of clients, and pursue their interests more easily than the vast majority could ever hope to match.

[ ] Write In
 
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[JK] Distraction

"By Sigmar, what's that over there?" While she's looking, knock her out and ride off to Altdorf. Hopefully she regains consciousness once she's arrived in the Colleges.

But in all seriousness, I think focusing on


[X] Wealth and Power
Wizards can obtain great material wealth through their work, and they are also accorded the rights and privileges of nobility under imperial law. For a common-born woman like Spätin, this is easily the most comfortable life she can hope to have.

[X] Freedom
Being a wizard is not so constraining as Spätin fears. They can travel freely, accept work from a multitude of clients, and pursue their interests more easily than the vast majority could ever hope to match.

Is likely to work the best. Having freedom, as well as wealth and power, well, likely will call to her.
 
my thinking is something like
[] Freedom
cause after all, you play your cards right and you can dip out as a dog of war mercenary in Tilea and what not for a spell

[] Knowledge
scurrying around picking up odds and ends of hedge magicks is never going to give Spatin the opportunity to enchant her rapier and go fight duels with the Emperor's backing

[] Community
and lastly, eight different flavors of sculpted abs, baby

and so,
[X] Freedom
[X] Knowledge
[X] Community
 
Came up with this as an initial idea based on the discussion.

I could say to you that it is a chance to avert the damnation of your very soul, a way to properly gain a grasp on the ravenous waves as they crash against your inner bulwark. A way to at least lessen the chance of horrid mutation that often claims those who end up delving too deep in their most vivid moments of desperation. Were I one of my more brutal colleagues I would say you have no choice in the matter. Or at the very least the choice would rest between organizing a trial or escorting you to the nearest Collegiate property.

But as you've probably guessed by now, I am not. Instead, I am the principled fool who would rather shoot a wealth merchant for condemning an innocent woman and would give anyone the benefit of a trial if given the chance.

Since we are talking in hypotheticals- maybes, instead. Let me give the both of you a lesson on the obligations and advantages that come with Collegiate membership. Aside from offering a Wyrd the chance at proper training of their talents, a Collegiate apprenticeship allows for them to explore the kinds of magic that they are most in touch with. Whether that be throwing fireballs, aiding the sick and wounded with healing hands or quiet literally sinking into the shadows to track their pray. It is a chance at tutorship by someone who understands the magic that suits you.

In doing so it also allows the prospective apprentice to practice their art in a safe-ish environment with peers at their side. Not merely increasing in skill over the years but also in their ability to control their talents. And to be better prepared for the consequences one might face should something go wrong. I won't profess to know how exactly the Colleges train their initiates, nor will I deny that any who join will have to abide and live by strict rules during their careers. Yet there are none other who can offer what they do.

At the end of their apprenticeship they would receive a license of sorts and be allowed to travel the Empire as a journeyman. A way of passage and a chance a plying their skills in the wider world, a guild membership if you would. The license, whatever form it might take, is a token of legitimacy in a way few things are. And a magister can expect to receive accommodation, benefits, respect, and fair treatment, as would befit any noble of Sigmar's Holy Empire, while in the employ of the Electors of Sigmar's Holy Empire.

Some go on to join the army. Others simply seclude themselves away in research, either alone or with their fellows. Or make pacts with local villages, wealth merchants or a noble families and advice them on matters magical or work on commission. Others still simply travel the roads of the Old World and heed the call of adventure, doing their own part in protecting the Empire and its people. Be it isolated townships with no one else to turn to or bustling towns unaware of the dangers hiding in its sewers. As long no proper war or dark enemies besiege the realm, a magister's agreement of employment or lack thereof are his own.

Whatever it may be that you seek, with this mystic now, possibly journeyman Terrell before, and maybe others before them. Understanding, calling, peers, safety, might or control. Or maybe even the chance at spreading such teaching to another who also finds themselves in your position. Joining the Colleges could provide you with it.

This could be your chance to follow the road east, as Sigmar once did.
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Edit:

Anddddddddd Maugan instead made it a topic vote.

Guess this was a waste of time.
 
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[X] Community
The single greatest resource the Colleges have to offer is the company of fellow wizards, people who understand in a way that perhaps nobody else ever could. A chance to live among ones peers, unafraid; surely this is worth the cost?

Admittedly this is more something that would appeal to Markus himself (this man absolutely sits alone in dark corners and broods about how the other nobility and his fellow Witch Hunters fail to live up to the standards that are expected of them unlike him, truly he is a lonely flickering candle of virtue in a world shrouded in metaphorical darkness, just like the literal darkness he is currently brooding in) but at the same time that seems like what he'd clutch for as he claws desperately for a Good Grade In Son from the father he burned at stake.
 
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Since argument subvotes are encouraged, I'm gonna shamelessly steal an idea from someone upthread:

[X] Freedom
-[X] What you are doing now in secret, you could do openly and with the papers to ward off any who question you.

Go Markus go! I'm so invested in the coming rolls haha

Edit: nice subvote by Andres as well, supporting
-[X] The robes aren't a uniform; she doesn't need to advertise herself as a wizard unless she wants to. She can maintain her current lifestyle as a wizard, though with greater legal protection, the freedom to learn and practise magic openly, and the option to take advantage of noble privileges.
 
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[X] Knowledge
[X] Community

Mainly voting for these options as they line up we've seen of her. We know that she she's an inquisitive soul from our conversation at the metalworkers guild. Also, she does seem to genuinely care for that journeyman we saw earlier, that's got to count for something.
 
I think the Danger angle is doomed to fail. Mainly, because Spätin is quite confident in herself and she hasn't met a problem she can't run away from or out-fight yet.

That leaves me thinking we should angle for either Duty, Community and Knowledge in that order. Duty because why else would she tag along with someone who she thinks would burn her at the stake? She clearly has principles that lead her to wanting to do some good with her talents despite the incredible risk to herself, Community becuase as a hedge-witch, she really is alone and Markus knows what that's like. He may not be a at risk of getting lynched, but his line of work and personal history may help him empathize with Spätin here.

Many Magisters know what she's going through, and they can help.

Lastly, Knowledge. She's clearly curious about magic, and the Colleges are the best way to learn about it in a safe environment.

[X] Duty
[X] Community
[X] Knowledge

SonofMelonHead said:
[X] Community
[X] Community
[X] Wealth and Power

These seem most likely to persuade her.
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Heads up, you're voting for Community twice here.
 
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Thinking on it some more, I'm not sure on Wealth and Power. Markus has power since he's nobility and a templar, but wealth? He's rejected it all his life. From leaving his inheritance to his little brother to saying no to the temptation of the inheritance we're investigating now, Markus doesn't care for vast amounts of wealth and while he understands why others do, it's not a argument he can fully believe in.
 
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