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The Enemy Within (WHF Witch Hunter Quest)

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Are we actually under this guy's authority ? It sounds like we're part of a separate Church hierarchy.

At worst we're undermining him by making his underlings disobey him.

[X] Follow Father Sigiwalt
 
The Empire stood for two thousand years. Why? Because they did not allow reason and good sense to stop them from doing what must be done.

[X] Follow Father Sigiwalt

Chaos worshippers are not masterminds. If they were, they would be vampires. So no, I don't believe in complicated double or triple bluffs. Things are exactly as they seem. A corrupted merchant family. A nepo case as head of church (probably also corrupted). It's time to do as witch hunter does and burn them all.

And if they were innocent? Well Sigmar will know his own.
 
T_of_A said:
Are we actually under this guy's authority ? It sounds like we're part of a separate Church hierarchy.
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It's a bit of a grey area, but the easiest point of comparison is the relationship between cops and judges.

Markus has the right to conduct his own investigations, and to apprehend and question people as necessary for said investigations, but Edel is the man who will actually preside over any trial and also the man who controls the assembled resources of the Cult of Sigmar within Bogenhafen. He legally can't stop you from kicking down the door of the Steinhager offices, but it's generally a bad idea to piss off the judge in advance of the trial.

In most circumstances, the amount of evidence that Markus has already acquired would convince the spherical high priest in a vacuum to support a raid on the Steinhager offices in order to check their books, question their people and search their basements. However, as the update indicates, the high priest you are actually dealing with has vested interests and also is pissed as hell about his nominal subordinates sidestepping his authority.
 
If we're not doing the raid, then what kind of additional evidence are we hoping to uncover?

We've figured out who bought the copper, we figured out who owns the handkerchief. The sole lead we haven't followed up on is the location of the temple. But figuring that out would probably mean making and comparing maps, which non of our party members are skilled in.

I like caution just as much as the next guy, but what is the follow up to going to a meeting with two suspected cult/ordo members (Steinhäger), arranged for by two other prospective cult/ordo members (Teugen and Magirius), at the behest of a high priest who may or may not be bought by the former?
 
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Maugan Ra said:
Kneeling before the altar, you clear your mind as best you can of all distraction, murmuring the familiar words of the Twelve Prayers of Righteousness. Your heart is still unbalanced, your wit unable to truly resolve the conflict between law and dogma now sweeping the land, but less than twelve hours ago you called to the Heldenhammer and smote a daemon beneath the streets of this town, and that matters. Your hunt, your duty, matters. There is strength and purpose to be found in such sacred work, and in your heart you are glad that Sigmar has granted you the opportunity to pursue it, to atone for your previous mistakes with service.
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Sorry for trying to get every ounce of advantage on our side Maugan, but would this count as a Little Prayer?
 
Maugan Ra said:
Schweisser does indeed recall an order that matches what you are looking for - a hollow copper ring, three yards in diameter, was forged by special order for the Steinhäger family and delivered to their offices just over a year ago. Oddly enough, no formal record of the order exists in the guild's books, but Schweisser just shrugs off your questions on that score; apparently the old archive room sprung a leak during one of the winter storms last season, and a considerable quantity of commercial records were lost as a result.
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This seems pretty suspicious to me because what mundane use is there going to be for a three-yard wide hollow copper ring?

Though of course there's also the possibility that the cult disguised themselves as representatives of the family somehow... Ahh, Tzeentch, never stop encouraging paranoia.
 
Dutch said:
Sorry for trying to get every ounce of advantage on our side Maugan, but would this count as a Little Prayer?
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Technically yes, though by default I was reserving actual divine response to a more dramatic moment.

That said if we wanted to go Rules As Written then a d100 roll that got a 01 would result in divine intervention, so why not, let's see if I somehow have Boney's luck.

Edit: Seems not. To be clear to people watching this isn't a bad thing and I also don't intend to make future cases of "does Sigmar give you a sign" a literal 1% chance. I just thought it would be funny.
Maugan Ra threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: Little Prayer Total: 67
67 67
 
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Always Late said:
What matters more, the law or the deed? To who do we look to for advancement, our peers or our superiors?
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Unfortunately, it's really not so simple

The main issue is that Edel would be the one presiding over a trial, and Edel isn't onboard for several reasons.
We could sidestep his authority and raid the offices, but unless what we find is absolutely incontrovertible Edel could likely have the whole thing thrown out of court out of spite.

Having Edel go from annoyed with Markus to outright furious at him could also severely hamper Markus's ability to continue this investigation going forward.
Markus's authority derives in large part from the Cult of Sigmar, if the High Priest starts denouncing him from the pulpit then that kneecaps his ability to get people to fall in line.
To say nothing of Edel possibly leaning on his influence to close off doors and resources.

Edel also isn't entirely wrong about a raid on one of the most powerful Merchant families in Bögenhafen being likely to cause civil unrest.
If the High Priest was cooperative then he might be able to quell the public outcry and concerns. But since he's emphatically not on side with the raid he's much more likely to actively direct attention straight at Markus instead, earning Markus several new powerful and rich enemies.


The only saving grace to all this is if the raid on offices turns up clear incontrovertible proof of Chaos corruption.
If we kick down the door and find some bloodstained cultists hanging out in the basement decorated with skulls and chatting with a Daemon or the like then all the above goes out the window.
It becomes a narrative about a Witch Hunter and Co heroically saving Bögenhafen from the machinations of Chaos and nobody is going to raise a public fuss about that, not toward Markus anyway.
If, we find clear incontrovertible proof. It's a gamble.

If we don't. If we find another breadcrumb trail. Or even if we find a Cultist but said Cultist can't be nailed to the Steinhäger's.
If it can be argued, (and may even be true) that the Steinhäger's themselves aren't involved.
Then this whole mess could blow up, badly.


That's not to say Edel's approach doesn't have risks either.
And Edel's motives are also definitely bound up in his own interests, ones that make it so that he flatly does not want to believe the Steinhägers or the Ordo Septenarius are involved.
But that's realpolitik
 
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... what would be the legitimate, non-cult use of a giant copper ring? I guess spirit-calling isn't technically strictly forbidden but it still seems like the kind of thing you'd want to watch.
 
Dutch said:
If we're not doing the raid, then what kind of additional evidence are we hoping to uncover?

We've figured out who bought the copper, we figured out who owns the handkerchief. The sole lead we haven't followed up on is the location of the temple. But figuring that out would probably mean making and comparing maps, which non of our party members are skilled in.

I like caution just as much as the next guy, but what is the follow up to going to a meeting with two suspected cult/ordo members (Steinhäger), arranged for by two other prospective cult/ordo members (Teugen and Magirius), at the behest of a high priest who may or may not be bought by the former?
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I would say time to get a raid planed and a chance to talk the the leaders of the Cults of Bogenhafen to get their input and their support. We also don't know how the Steinhager is involved with the Chaos Cult or where the rot is so seeing how they react to being shown the evidence and how members of the other important merchant families react could be useful in finding the real servants of the Dark Gods we are hunting.

We need the Cult behind us on this and we don't want the Local High Priest causing issues. We are here and unless he is one of the enemy he can't hold back our investigation and if we act cautiously as he asks us to then he can't drag his feet on acting slowly, or not, or we will be able to hang him out to dry.

@Maugan Ra Boss if we agree with the High Priests plan for now can we still spend time interviewing Father Sigiwalt all the information he has on the Ordo and ask him why in his mind they are hiding dark secrets. We want him to know we are taking the threat seriously and that we will take his advice and support with open arms. Also can we still spend time talking to the Lieutenant Brotte the Father mentioned in the quote below, as some one in the leadership of the Statetroops stationed her who won't take bribes is the kind of support we will need before this investigation is done I am certain.

Can we ask politely to be present for the Meeting the High Priest wants to have with the head of the Town Council and the master of the Merchant's Guild as we have questions both of them would be well place to answer?

Maugan Ra said:
"is it not obvious? I can speak with Lieutenant Brotte of the north barracks, and vouch for her character besides - she got the worst assignment in Bögenhafen because of her refusal to take bribes from any merchant. We speak with her, gather her troops, and raid the Steinhäger offices this afternoon. Search the place, arrest and question everyone present, and finish this all with swift and decisive action."

"You will do no such thing," Ludo says flatly, one hand cutting through the air in denial, "No, this must be handled with care. I will approach Teugen and Magirius about this - the head of the Town Council and the master of the Merchant's Guild.
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BaseDeltaZero said:
... what would be the legitimate, non-cult use of a giant copper ring? I guess spirit-calling isn't technically strictly forbidden but it still seems like the kind of thing you'd want to watch.
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They're bored rich people. They could have had it forged out of a random whim for all we know, or a hare-brained idea for a genius invention that never panned out.

Either way, we have no evidence that says the giant copper ring was brought to the cult basement by the Steinhägers.
 
Maybe I'm too quick to write off Edel, but I'm getting the feeling the unless a demon is eating his face he'll run cover for the merchants.

Everything about him screams "bought position" and we also know that he is not respected by his nominal subordinates. He isn't high priest out of any kind of skill or merit, he's there because of the influence of the merchant guild. The same guild who's wealthy leaders are part of the Ordo and may or may not be chaos cultists. If the merchants lose influence due to a big scandal then his ass is also on the line. Which gives him all the more reason to try his best to bury the investigation.

Also. Going by Sigiwalt's comment, a good chunk of the Watch may be compromised if not by chaos then atleast by the merchant guild. Something to keep in mind.
 
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What chances are that the Ordo really is a club filled with Bored Rich Men wanting to be cool, but their 'games' created some aethyric resonance that lured an opportunistic daemon? Or a cultist is manipulating them taking advantage of their ignorance.
For all the danger of Ruinous Powers knowlege about them is scarse, heck us being a Witch Hunter does not makes us privy to such knowlege by default either . Indeed we are recifying that without a doubt, but still.
 
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