Eve of Destruction Part 2: All Along the Watchtower (Update: Now back to regular turns)

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Red Bovine said:
Wasn't TAPP made to be pretty random by design? Not sure how that would help us in any way besides the wrath gain.
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I mean yes, but like that's the point: Edgar, at this point, thinks that the TAPP is designed to do what it says it does. This isn't rocket science: the reason the project is appealing is because it means that Edgar learns that his sister isn't just lying to him, but also the wider public, and in an incredibly significant way that clashes with both her public image as the Patriot Parties biggest civilian supporter and the persona she fronts in private as a loyal if cynical government agent. This and the nature of said lie is where people think opportunity lies.

Skycrafterf said:
I feel like fucking with Clancy would promptly get Edgar unpersoned so hard.
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Clancy went to war with the US over one brother dying, she's not going to unperson the other.

(That said, you're underestimating Edgar a bit here as well: he isn't as good at spy shit but the man IS a silver age mad scientist. Much in the same way it's going to take a lot of effort to take out Stripe, taking out Edgar is much easier said than done.)
 
The Bird said:
I mean yes, but like that's the point: Edgar, at this point, thinks that the TAPP is designed to do what it says it does. This isn't rocket science: the reason the project is appealing is because it means that Edgar learns that his sister isn't just lying to him, but also the wider public, and in an incredibly significant way that clashes with both her public image as the Patriot Parties biggest civilian supporter and the persona she fronts in private as a loyal if cynical government agent. This and the nature of said lie is where people think opportunity lies.



Clancy went to war with the US over one brother dying, she's not going to unperson the other.

(That said, you're underestimating Edgar a bit here as well: he isn't as good at spy shit but the man IS a silver age mad scientist. Much in the same way it's going to take a lot of effort to take out Stripe, taking out Edgar is much easier said than done.)
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I may be a bit biased here but was under the assumption that Edgar had only negative views and opinions on Clancy. Like I can see him not being surprised that Clancy may be pulling some spy shit with the deception in things like TAPP. At least I think it seems like it would make sense for gov agents to occasionally be working against each other in numerous occasions when it comes to settings like FUSA.

On the whole spy thing even if Clancy isn't going to kill Edgar she is shown to perfectly be willing to make his life extremely difficult like how she blackmailed him at the start of the quest. And even if Edgar is a super mad scientist Clancy has access to numerous mad scientist types in her super villain organization that is a country wide threat.

As I said, there might be a bias for Clancy due to us having more time and experience with her but seems like going against her in anyway, at least for the moment, seems like a terrible idea, especially considering that the intrigue area is what is supposed to be best at. Especially since Edgar doesn't even have a single super villain lair or even more than a handful of minions under him while Clancy's organization could be compared to a far more successful equivalent of GI Joe's Cobra where said organization operates across the entire country, has several evil lairs everywhere, has far more resources and manpower and have had years to build up using resources from an entire branch of the government.
 
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Red Bovine said:
I may be a bit biased here but was under the assumption that Edgar had only negative views and opinions on Clancy. Like I can see him not being surprised that Clancy may be pulling some spy shit with the deception in things like TAPP. At least I think it seems like it would make sense for gov agents to occasionally be working against each other in numerous occasions when it comes to settings like FUSA.
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He does. That's why people think he might be surprised to learn she went out of her way to sabotage the TAPP program when doing so was harder and riskier for her with no obvious benefit to her. It might open the door to the beginning of an understanding although it is probably too late for a reconciliation. I'm with you on preferring work on more weather monitoring as that is both useful to minimize storm damage but also seem they may facilitate communication across the state even after the bombs fall but I can see the narrative and practical intrest in exploring TAPP
 
Eldon said:
He does. That's why people think he might be surprised to learn she went out of her way to sabotage the TAPP program when doing so was harder and riskier for her with no obvious benefit to her. It might open the door to the beginning of an understanding although it is probably too late for a reconciliation. I'm with you on preferring work on more weather monitoring as that is both useful to minimize storm damage but also seem they may facilitate communication across the state even after the bombs fall but I can see the narrative and practical intrest in exploring TAPP
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Still have the impression that he would still hate immensely even if just a bit less if he learned about her motive. Because before their brothers death Clancy was perfectly fine working with the FUSA gov and doing horrible things with the implication that she would have still been working with them if they hadn't killed her brother. Heck, she has been noted to still be incredibly awful and is still doing horrible things like supplying the Pinkerton's with PA or helping out the FB with their own vaults. And that's not including all the other horrible crimes and actions she was part of including NEXT's most extreme actions like nuking an entire city.
 
Eldon said:
He does. That's why people think he might be surprised to learn she went out of her way to sabotage the TAPP program when doing so was harder and riskier for her with no obvious benefit to her. It might open the door to the beginning of an understanding although it is probably too late for a reconciliation. I'm with you on preferring work on more weather monitoring as that is both useful to minimize storm damage but also seem they may facilitate communication across the state even after the bombs fall but I can see the narrative and practical intrest in exploring TAPP
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A pretty good theory. There's also the fact that "a major pillar of the patriot party's soft power is undermining it" and "the major test for identifying communists that every state uses doesn't fucking work and is secretly just calvinball that gets random people killed" are just useful things to know period.

And more broadly speaking, a piece of advice @Red Bovine : you'll find that as far as rhetorical strength goes, trying to sway votes would probably work better if instead of acting surprised or baffled people were picking a particular option and acting like there's no good reason to pick that option, you put more efforts into campaigning for your preferred option on its own merits. All your current strategy does is frustrate the people who very clearly do see good reasons for picking an option- and no offence, with the way you argue your point, I can see why people are reticent to explain it to you. Intentionally or not your chosen rhetorical strategy comes off very strongly as condescension or dismissiveness which can make people hesitant to engage and alienate them if they aren't in your bloc already.

I'm assuming you're acting in good faith here so I'd also suggest if you want to understand why a particular choice is being advanced by another party you should try putting yourself in their shoes: maybe instead of reflexively assuming that the only valid stance on X is Y, try thinking about it from "the other voting bloc clearly believe that the correct way to view X is Z, what are some plausible sounding reasons or theories as to why they think Z is correct". People don't do things for no reason: even if you can't easily parse their logic and reasoning doesn't mean it isn't taking place. That isn't to say their logic is necessarily CORRECT, and it's not necessarily even the main justification for their choice, but most of the time people will have at least some internal reasoning to back up their policy.

(And like, to reiterate something I said awhile ago: that reasoning could just be vibes and preference. And like, that's fine? Not everything needs to be optimizer-brained: factions of voters having their pet thing they want so long as they can reasonably meet mandates and accomplish their major goals is fine, preferred even because even if this is meant to be a pretty dark game I do in fact want my players to have fun, and that does entail giving them some freedom for them to pursue things they thing are more interesting than practical. To be clear I don't actually think people wanting to decode TAPP is a vibes based position I just think the core underlying problem with your rhetorical style is that some things don't need practical justifications in the first place.)
 
Several major things here:
  • Knightfall: The obvious one; all our work to double it at New Orleans will finally bear fruit, and we have enough dice for Raiding the Warchest as well, which gives the Pinkertons another kick in the teeth while also getting us some Funding. The Evil Lair should also finish up here, which is just that extra bit of synergy to help.
  • Disaster Recovery: Quarantine Procedure is done early (this one really eats up our dice), and Baton Rouge+New Orleans get some recovery efforts. New Orleans will need more next turn, and Gecko will need to be done as well, but this should take care of most of the effects of the hyperstorm.
  • Mandates: Hunting NEXT is done, and AlviCorp Community Development Program gets done in New Alexandria. Still need 1 more [Education] project for the city, but that'll do for this turn.
  • Australia: "Variable rewards" really makes me want to go hard on this, but I could only really spare 3 dice... Still, it'll get us at least some extra Influence in time for the National Convention.
  • Other Stuff: More work on the AutoMenagerie, and I'm starting a Co-Op Garden in Cambridge, a Floodwall Expansion in Baton Rouge, and TAPP Analysis.
[X] Plan: Knightfall
--[X] Floodwall Expansion (Baton Rouge)
---[X] 1 die: (0/400 --> 51/400)
-[X] AGENT (1 dice; +0)
--[X] Hunting NEXT
---[X] 1 die + 1 Skulder + 2 Sophia
-[X] FACILITIES (0 dice; +1)
--[X] ACME Construction Catelogue
---[X] 2 Benoit: (109/200 --> 221/200)
--[X] AutoMenagerie Complex
---[X] 2 Edgar (307/500 --> 409/500)
-[X] SCIENCE (0 dice; +5)
--[X] Laser Balloon Testing
---[X] 1 Prototype (91/250 --> 146/250)
--[X] Australia
---[X] 2 Edgar + 1 Ecology
--[X] TAPP Analysis
---[X] 1 Government (0/300 --> 55/300)
--[X] Quarantine Procedure (Sunken Parish)
---[X] 1 Disaster + 1 Ecology + 1 Genetics
-[X] OUTREACH (0 dice; +5)
--[X] AlviCorp Community Development Program (New Alexandria)
---[X] 2 Education + 1 Arcadian Agent (0/150 --> 166/150)
--[X] Co-Op Garden (Cambridge Louisiana)
---[X] 1 Cambridge Louisiana (0/100 --> 55/100)
--[X] Community Restoration Program (New Orleans)
---[X] 1 Wilbur (0/50 --> 57/50)
--[X] Community Restoration Program (Baton Rouge)
---[X] 1 Baton Rouge (0/50 --> 55/50)
-[X] MISCHIEF (8 dice; +2)
--[X] Dissolve the Police (Baton Rouge)
---[X] 3 dice + 1 Wilbur
--[X] Dissolve the Police (New Orleans)
---[X] 3 dice + 1 Chems
--[X] Raiding the Warchest (Pinkerton National Detective Agency)
---[X] 2 die + 1 Wilbur + 1 Free
 
[X] Plan: Restoration, Australia, Knightfall
-[X] Self Defense Courses [Combat, Education]
--[X] Gecko: 1D [Security], 2 [Education] (0/100 ---> 153/100)
-[X] Digging Up Dirt [Investigation, Crime]
--[X] Baton Rouge: 1D [Baton Rouge], 1D [Agent] (0/100 ---> 100/100)
-[X] ACME Construction Catelogue [Construction, Personnel, Robotics]
--[X] 1D [Benoit], 1D [Arcadian] (109/200 ---> 215/200)
-[X] Supply Depot Warehouse [Logistics,Construction]
--[X] Harlem: 1D [Benoit] (0/175 ---> 55/175/350/525)
-[X] Weather Monitoring Station [Ecology, Government]
--[X] Sunken Parish: 1D [Government] (0/200 --->51/200)
-[X] Cryptid Documentation [Weird, C-Files, Special]
--[X] C-005 [Chems, Investigation, Prototype]: 1D [Prototype], 1D [Chems], 1D [Edgar] (0/150 ---> 168/150)
-[X] Australia [Investigation, Ecology, Combat]
--[X] 1D [Skulder], 2D [Ecology], 1D [Free], 2D Edgar (323/??? DC)
-[X] Quarantine Procedure [Genetics, Investigation, Disaster]
--[X] Sunken Parish: 1D [Genetics], 1D [Disaster], 1D [Edgar] (166/100 DC)
-[X] Commmunity Restoration Program [Charity, Ecology, Disaster]
--[X] New Orleans: 3D [Ashton] (0/50 ---> 171/50)
-[X] Atomiplants Attack! [Genetics, Prototype]
--[X] 1D [Mischief] (140/150 ---> 192/150)
-[X] Dissolve the Police [Crime, Combat, Chems]
--[X] Baton Rouge: 2D [Sophia], 2D [Mischief] (214/150 DC)
-[X] Wright Botany GigaGardener Kit [Chems, Prototype, Agriculture]
--[X] 5D [Mischief] (0/250 ---> 260/250)

Knightfall: Taking a good swing at that with some new plants
Australia: Who knows what we'll find there, Sending Skulder there more as a bodyguard
Restoration: Preventing an outbreak and mostly fixing New Orleans
Evil Base: should finish this turn
NEXT: brace for impact.
 
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[X] Plan: Knightfall

Pretty comfortable with this plan. Would like to push the new garage + black market thing, but that can wait.

Why Baton Rouge for Floodwalls to start? Wasn't New Orleans the place that was having problems in the FotW, or am I mis-remembering?
 
edofthesquid said:
Why Baton Rouge for Floodwalls to start? Wasn't New Orleans the place that was having problems in the FotW, or am I mis-remembering?
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We know for certain that Baton Rouge (and Gecko) is underwater. We assume this is the case for all the other Communities as well, but haven't actually seen it for sure. More to the point, we can't actually build a New Orleans Floodwall Expansion until we reduce it's disaster-stricken trait down a couple steps.
 
[X] Plan: Knightfall

chellewalker said:
We know for certain that Baton Rouge (and Gecko) is underwater. We assume this is the case for all the other Communities as well, but haven't actually seen it for sure. More to the point, we can't actually build a New Orleans Floodwall Expansion until we reduce it's disaster-stricken trait down a couple steps.
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Why not New Alexandria?

There's a CERES unit in the city and that could be very useful in Post-War Louisiana if we can make sure it manage to survive different from Baton Rouge that's going to be doomed thanks to the experimental reactor. Raising both Public and Responder Preparedness in Baton Rouge is probably essential to make sure the people can survive the reactor going haywire, still it's possible that either way a large ghoul community will be surge in Baton Rouge thanks to the radiation.

Then again building Floodwalls is basic necessity for all communities in our region so it really don't matter when it should start the project.

Also once we built walls on Gecko DoP Gun Club or Self Defense Course should be made there too, if only to give the people some training to defend themselves from the Knight's expedition that right now are pose to become a major power in Louisiana by virtue of being the only ones around.

In another note if we get permission to build a SPD, I suggest built one in the AutoMenagerie so there's people in close proximity that can keep it protected and operational or at least another CERES unit there.

Say @The Bird there's a possibility to trigger a OC Fallout Protagonist in Louisiana if we manage to develop the region enough?
 
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