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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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IronFist said:
Picklepikkl found an explicit boney quote to the contrary.

My SV-search fu remains forever inferior.

Iä Iä Picklepikkl!
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Oh damn, so not made of dhar, but their magic might be tainted by daemonic energies. Still probably the best way to prove it.
French Cowboy said:
I mean I figure the distinction between a deamon and an apparition is that a deamon can't be remolded with a singular wind the way we did to the red rider. Also the inherent corruptiveness of chaos would likely cause us to mutate like hell if we bound one to our soul.
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As I understand (and in this I could be totally wrong) you can bind a daemon to your soul without it being instantly noticable, it just requires the daemon to cooperate.
 
Tasoli said:
So even if there is something not dhar in them they also have dhar in them so apparations that has no dhar in them are not deamons.
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Okay but isn´t that once again a political distinction? Cathay considers dark magic one of the holy magics according to the jade we found. My best guess that aethyric beings of the smaller, non-god variety with no physical attachment (like souls of forests and their subject spirits) is that there are dependents (like saints of the Order gods, or Daemons of Chaos) that are made of their respective overlord divine energies (which is why Gazul´s eye needs four separate crystals for identification, one for each chaos god) and independents, who are made of pure undiferentiated aethyr and have no real overlord. Those would be apparitions.
 
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Has a planflowchart been done for 'which plan(s) should you vote for based on your preferences'? Just to check.
 
pucflek said:
Okay but isn´t that once again a political distinction? Cathay considers dark magic one of the holy magics according to the jade we found. My best guess that aethyric beings of the smaller, non-god variety with no physical attachment (like souls of forests and their subject spirits) is that there are dependents (like saints of the Order gods, or Daemons of Chaos) that are made of their respective overlord divine energies (which is why Gazul´s eye needs four separate crystals for identification, one for each chaos god) and independents, who are made of pure undiferentiated aethyr and have no real overlord. Those would be apparitions.
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As evidence to tell apart daemons and apparations it would need someone not of the colleges to make the judgment call.
 
Here is my plan and reasoning, might approval vote other plans later.

[X] Plan : Strike while the Ithilmar is Hot
-[X] Waystone: Build a Waystone (Everyone)
--[X] COIN: Gambler
-[X] Create Orbs of Sorcery solo
-[X] Waystone: Other Networks: Karaz Ankor (Thorek)
-[X] Enter into negotiations with the Druchii delegation to Laurelorn
-[X] Attempt to gain control of one of your Arcane Marks (Unnatural Shadow)
-[X] EIC: Gather as much Ithilmar from throughout the Old World as possible to resell to the Eonir for a one-time profit
-[X] Serenity: Write a book : Aethyric Vitae 1/2
-[X] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Library of Mournings)
-[X] Eike Study: Khazalid, Enchantment (College class : 1 CF)
-[X] Eike Actions: Orbs, EIC, KAU

-[ ] Enter into negotiations with the Druchii delegation to Laurelorn

I'm surprised there isn't more interest in this. I guess people see Asur vs Druchii as an "either of", the way the delegation was presented as willing to act against greater Druchii interests to advance their own standing and the fact that negociations are still an option makes me think this is not the case.

Military information is more valuable then ever with our now direct link to the Asur and so long as it doesn't impact military affairs to much, getting other BOOKs or even perhaps freeing some slaves in exchange for information and luxuries seems a worthwhile endeavor.

A strech goal might even be to get contacts to set up an intelligence network in Naggarond and perhaps local allies for a regime change. Although those things would undoubtedly take time and perhaps might be altogether unacheivable, an opportunity to enter relations with one or many Drucchi factions doesn't come often and, just like the Ithilmar, time might be running out until the delegation leaves.

We might even get useful information on Druchii for the Elfcation.

-[ ] Attempt to gain control of one of your Arcane Marks (Mantle of Mist)

Our Warrior of Fog trait probably makes this one of the "easiest" mark to work on first and this has been on the to do list since forever. I'd be open to another self improvement action like the Pall of Darkness or even continuing to work on our swording but I feel there is more momentum for the Arcane Mark.

-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Library of Mournings)
I keep getting disappointed whenever we can't get access to a subject because of it's military relevance. A straight up technology exchange would alleviate this.

I think even just knowledge about GUNS and CANNONS would make a partenership worth it to the Eonir, and KAU has much more than that to offer, especially if we count all the future potential.

Now, I know that people have expressed reluctance to give away military "secrets" (I mean, considering that most "order factions" have some form of guns and/or cannons I'd think it's a matter of time before the Eonir get the tech if they really want it), but I don't think it's as big a deal as people make it.

Sure, guns would make the Eonir more deadly, but it wouldn't change the basic strenght difference between the Empire and the Eonir. It might make the Eonir harder to INVADE, but wouldn't give them the means or motivation to pose a substential threat to the Empire. Sure Nordland might sweat a bit, but as a whole the Eonir very much want a normalization of ties with the Empire and lasting peace. A sharing of military technology would be an enormous show of trust that would strenghten both sides on the long run.

And I emphatize the long run part of it, it's not like giving books on guns gives the Eonir the immediate capacity to produce an industrial quantity of them, such a thing requires an industrial base that would be quite a challenge to set up in a wood elf civilization. The same can be said for military knowledge given to us, it will probably take quite some time for those books to transfer into a considerable military advantage.
 
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Tasoli said:
What is the difference between Gods of the Empire and Chaos?
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I don´t know, you tell me. Ulric is sometimes considered guise of the Violent and Ranald of Tempter. Khaine as well. The distinction is that they are at war and one is on our side and the other isn´t (and i suppose general awfulness, but that is not wholly unique to Chaos except in scale either. Before arrival of Asur to Marienburg, the aspects of Stromfels who is proscribed were part of the mainstream Manaan worship for example). The difference is therefore political. They are the same class of being, with different makeup. Is spell not a spell because it is not cast with Aqshy but instead Chamon? Is Malekith not wielding magic?
 
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If the apparition question had a clearcut answer for how full disclosure would unfold, then it would either be openly used or completely forbidden, depending on what that answer would be. The reason for them being used in secret is because the people whose lives are on the line and whose job it is to know these things don't know how it would unfold. If they can't reason out the answer, you probably can't either. For that reason, and because of how heated this is getting, I'm unilaterally declaring that discussion on the matter shall cease for today.

Any attempts to get any last words in will be unappreciated.

picklepikkl said:
@Boney: There appears to be some controversy over what assigning Eike to the KAU language action would involve due to differing interpretations of how Eike tagalong works. If this happens, will Eike get any language study out of it (with the understanding that obviously this isn't as efficient/effective as a dedicated language study action), or will she purely be part of the administrative side?
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Depends on her workload. If she's doing plenty of other things she's doing then she'll just see the administrative side. If she's relatively light on tasks, she'll audit a lesson or two.
 
pucflek said:
I don´t know, you tell me. Ulric is sometimes considered guise of the Violent and Ranald of Tempter. Khaine as well. The distinction is that they are at war and one is on our side and the other isn´t (and i suppose general awfulness, but that is not wholly unique to Chaos except in scale either. Before arrival of Asur to Marienburg, the aspects of Stromfels who is proscribed were part of the mainstream Manaan worship for example). The difference is therefore political.
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We also haven't really seen any warp entities of our gods (I think), like priests use their power but we haven't seen a lower daemon of Ranald yet.

Edit: sorry, I posted before I saw the boney post.
Though I am really curious if Ranald has nay big cat daemons to call on...
 
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Sparsebeard said:
Our Warrior of Fog trait probably makes this one of the "easiest" mark to work on first and this has been on the to do list since forever. I'd be open to another self improvement action like the Pall of Darkness or even continuing to work on our swording but I feel there is more momentum for the Arcane Mark.
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I think warrior of fog only applies to the metaphorical fog of war, rather than literal fog or mist. I think if anything out practical experience with burning shadows and other things of the like would make us more inclined toward shadow as a literal interpretation of ulgu.
 
Sparsebeard said:
I keep getting disappointed whenever we can't get access to a subject because of it's military relevance. A straight up technology exchange would alleviate this.
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A full tech exchange isn't really on the table from the get go.

Tomcost said:
Do we know of we can start copying the Library of Mournings with our future scribes once they learn Eltharin?
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Boney said:
You'd have to negotiate it, but being able to copy the non-magic, non-Cult, non-military parts aren't off the table.
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Sparsebeard said:
Now, I know that people have expressed reluctance to give away military "secrets" (I mean, considering that most "order factions" have some form of guns and/or cannons I'd think it's a matter of time before the Eonir get the tech if they really want it), but I don't think it's as big a deal as people make it.
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I mean, Boney explicitly told us this is an area Mathilde shouldn't be stepping on the toes of the other power players involved, so I think it is a pretty big deal.
 
Tobtorp said:
We also haven't really seen any warp entities of our gods (I think), like priests use their power but we haven't seen a lower daemon of Ranald yet.

Edit: sorry, I posted before I saw the boney post.
Though I am really curious if Ranald has nay big cat daemons to call on...
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Here;

Codex said:
Spoiler: Call Divine Servant Divine. Very High Difficulty. Requires a quart of blessed liquid (different cults prefer different liquids, including fresh water, brine, animal blood, and beer) and a holy symbol of your cult. The caster must purify themselves for a full week and then spend a further two days contemplating divine texts before drawing their holy symbol with the blessed liquid and casting for 1d10+4 hours. Casting becomes easier on holy days and holy ground. A failed cast causes the caster's god to retaliate viciously with their Vengeance. A successful one summons a divine servant, which differs based on the god and the variation of the ritual cast. This can summon a holy animal, a Venerated Soul, or an odd manifestation like a twin tailed comet for Sigmar and a Cat's Paw for Ranald. Whoever summons the Divine Servant has absolutely no control over it, and it does what it pleases. The caster must have a very good reason for summoning, or they will suffer the Wrath of the Gods.
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I won't mind terribly if the Panacea nut plan wins, but I like the other leading competitor, because it does more, the potential synergy in Eike's action, the fact that it wraps up some of the stuff we've already started (like the Lizardmen papers) and the attempt at creating the sevirophone.

[X] Plan Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration Language Edition
 
pucflek said:
I don´t know, you tell me. Ulric is sometimes considered guise of the Violent and Ranald of Tempter. Khaine as well. The distinction is that they are at war and one is on our side and the other isn´t (and i suppose general awfulness, but that is not wholly unique to Chaos except in scale either. Before arrival of Asur to Marienburg, the aspects of Stromfels who is proscribed were part of the mainstream Manaan worship for example). The difference is therefore political. They are the same class of being, with different makeup. Is spell not a spell because it is not cast with Aqshy but instead Chamon? Is Malekith not wielding magic?
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Chaos gods are top to bottom spirits. Created from paradox of many races differenv views of same concept during the war of heaven. They are marked by excess all 4 of them. Excess of Despair, Excess of Ambition, Excess of Bloodlust and Excess of Lust.

Gods we know look like bottom up spirits. Tree spirit that becomes the forest spirit is a god. As long as they do this without creating a paradox within themselves or get eaten and replaced by a deamon anyway. So they lack excess.
 
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