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Hugh_Donnetono Presents: SV Mafia All-Stars (Or: A Crisis On Infinite Sus)

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Ori said:
I think it's just kinda deflecty away from the topic without really giving another solid direction imo but I still think it's not great.
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It looks to me that the Cult stuff is WRT votes on Atoms specifically for giving the information at all though, rather than the Cult idea itself.
 
Adhoc vote count started by -Rosen on Nov 27, 2023 at 5:16 PM, finished with 166 posts and 9 votes.
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Votes from Start of Day to #223 -- Atoms was the leading wagon at the time. I don't think 99's post is that broad WRT Cult discussion.
 
-Rosen said:
It looks to me that the Cult stuff is WRT votes on Atoms specifically for giving the information at all though, rather than the Cult idea itself.
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You are of course, correct. My fallibility strikes again. Also frankly, even if you ignore the prickliness I find the imo hypocrisy present in said prickliness concerning.

What I'm talking about is this-

In regards to Atoms, I'm not sure if I see the cult suspicions as particularly vote-worthy? It's a bit of an odd topic to bring up, but it's probably either just a misunderstanding or trying to make a conversation.
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They're talking about the "cult suspicions" here, and automatically go "they're clearly misunderstanding something or are just triyng to make conversation, they can't actually believe there is a cult", at least that's how it reads to me? And this seems to be based on... nothing, as far as I can tell? If it's a personal belief, I don't think they ever explaiend it, but insomnia is hitting me again and I've been up for 17 hours, so maybe I missed something in a post? As indicated by numbers, I'm not necessarily on my top game atm :V
 
-Rosen said:
Adhoc vote count started by -Rosen on Nov 27, 2023 at 5:16 PM, finished with 166 posts and 9 votes.
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Votes from Start of Day to #223 -- Atoms was the leading wagon at the time. I don't think 99's post is that broad WRT Cult discussion.
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I think it reads rather plainly? It's in context of "the cult suspicions", it thus has to be the "topic" they are referring to, and the assumptions are either that it is some crazy misunderstanding or just an attempt to start discussion. There is no possibility that Atoms is even a cultist trying to deflect, they are either certain its' a cult or do not want town to even consider the possiblity imo.
 
Running back the thread to sanity check myself quickly, I'm seeing a bit more clearly what you're saying after racking my brain on the post a bit more, but want to check the timeline of things before I engage further
 
#72 - Atoms' first mention that there is definitely a Cult, this comes before the hard claim that Class Rep exists.
#80 - Atoms also appears to soft claim Class Rep specifically in this post, denoting that the recruitment mechanic could also be a Scum mechanic.
#85 - Atoms hard claims the info on Class Rep existing in the game.
#110 - 99L asks for Vanilla claims.

I'm kind of still left with the opinion that 99L is just super lost with this timeline specifically. Even with my new and better understanding of what you meant in #223's "misunderstanding" bit, I don't think that alone implicates 99L as a culting role at all, or even knowledgeable that a culting role exists in the game.

I just don't see any world where 99L both knows that Class Rep exists and then also directly asks for claims that would directly benefit Class Rep -- AFTER Atoms hard claims that it is in the game. It's practically a throw at that point and I would want to give a Scum!99L more credit than to screw their own slot this badly so early on.
 
Wiadi said:
Explain.

(currently working on a more thorough catchup though may not be able to manage it before EoD; unexpectedly busy day)
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It's Day One with a lot dubious claims and little hard information, I almost clapped Rosen on due to a misunderstanding, and it's not fair to vote someone I feel could be town since that compromises their playing experience for a poor reason.
 
-Rosen said:
I just don't see any world where 99L both knows that Class Rep exists and then also directly asks for claims that would directly benefit Class Rep -- AFTER Atoms hard claims that it is in the game. It's practically a throw at that point and I would want to give a Scum!99L more credit than to screw their own slot this badly so early on.
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Fair, but I'm not entirely sure I agree. Especially given that there is no reason 99L has to be the cult leader- as I have said I think a couple times, there are frequently regular cult members along with said leader. If the game is up on the cult existing really early on, I could see an argument that they would want to turn the tables, and cultists are relatively expendable because you can always get more. Is it incredibly risky to throw away who might be your only other cultist to the wolves? Yeah, definitely. Would it also be a decently solid-reward play if it worked, given that you got a good sense of who you could target and who you could whiff? Also true. However, I admit that thsi is speculation on both the midnset of 99L and a hypothetical person I don't know, so I will admit that I'm not totally sold on it either.

Who would you prefer we lynch at this point, and maybe we can talk about it? I actually don't remember who you suspect right now.
 
Like, I want to emphasize that this is a 21 player game. With the hypothetical that there is a cult, obviously they are probably honestly going to have two other starting members (more feels too powerful), in which case it is even less of a loss if it doesn't pan out than if there was one recruit. This assumption that the only person who would want to act in the cult's interests is the leader (and I feel like you aren't the only one who has made that implicit assumption) is a little strange to me.
 
Doing some record keeping stuff atm, should be back before eod.
 
Clown Bean said:
Fair, but I'm not entirely sure I agree. Especially given that there is no reason 99L has to be the cult leader- as I have said I think a couple times, there are frequently regular cult members along with said leader. If the game is up on the cult existing really early on, I could see an argument that they would want to turn the tables, and cultists are relatively expendable because you can always get more. Is it incredibly risky to throw away who might be your only other cultist to the wolves? Yeah, definitely. Would it also be a decently solid-reward play if it worked, given that you got a good sense of who you could target and who you could whiff? Also true. However, I admit that thsi is speculation on both the midnset of 99L and a hypothetical person I don't know, so I will admit that I'm not totally sold on it either.

Who would you prefer we lynch at this point, and maybe we can talk about it? I actually don't remember who you suspect right now.
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I think on principle, if you're looking at Scum!Rep, then there is no chance that 99L is related. If you're looking at 3P!Rep, I think on a principle level it's better to lay low at least to start things out, since at that point you can both cast doubt on Atoms' claim that Rep exists, and potentially just get a free miss because of it. Letting that happen brings 3P closer to their own win condition, without really having to put in any work of their own, and 99L doesn't get implicated in anything at all. Sure, you don't have the potential of getting three Vanilla claims immediately like we're seeing in our current world, but you also just have more time to potentially sus out Vanillas in the first place, without potentially compromising numerical power in the process.

As for who I would rather see, I'm probably firm on my vote for Cyricubed if he does not show up before I leave. Admittedly I don't have any hard suspicions yet at this point (which partially my own fault due to spending so much time on the Cult discussions), but I also don't like any of the viable wagons right now, so even if my vote isn't viable, I'd rather it be that way than have my vote on a wagon that I'm not at all invested in.
 
Nictis said:
Because I'm Commander Rhodes, and previous alignments have no bearing here.

Also, this vote is bad given the topics discussed in the Day so far.

I planned to RP Commander Rhodes in the potluck game, I did the line in the BSER game, I was Seneca Rhodes in The Origin of Conclusion, I was sad that I wasn't Minister Rhodes in The Aetherial Concordat, in Arch Fiend's eternal game I made a fake claims that linked to me claiming Commander Rhodes in other games, in StormTrooper Mafia I joked that I spent N1 roleplaying as Commander Rhodes as an example for why claimed night fluff is not proof of innocence, in Congregation of Despair I stated that I was Commander Rhodes and should be visited by people, in Shadows on the Silverbird I claimed Commander Rhodes, in Quarantine Protocol I claimed Commander Rhodes, in Witches of Twisted Miasma and The Stars are Right I referenced Commander Rhodes, and in the original game I was Commander Rhodes and claimed such.

Just sharing this since people seem to think this is an uncommon thing for me or a sign of me enjoying myself = me being scum again.
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Variable said:
It's Day One with a lot dubious claims and little hard information, I almost clapped Rosen on due to a misunderstanding, and it's not fair to vote someone I feel could be town since that compromises their playing experience for a poor reason.
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Bad explanation. Lots of dubious claims and little hard info is exactly why we need the grounding an elim will provide. There's a place for no-elim D1s but this isn't it. Commit to something.
 
Honestly, I'm not particularly convinced by any of the wagons we have going on right now... I want to fish around my fellow lurkers, see if anything sparkly comes up.

@dinomannitro6 @Nanimani @Draxy @Nopeguy : heyyy okay! Let's play a game of Doctor, Vigilante, Spy. The rules are simple! Just say, if you had to choose one player to Doctor, one to Vigilante, and one to Spy, who would they be? (Explanations welcome!)
 
Don't really think NL is the play at all. Anything is better than nothing ATM. Yeet someone buy I'm probably just going to gun down Zaealix atp.
 
Ah whoops, didn't mean to post that so soon, misclicked on my keyboard.

Wasn't aware it appeared in that many games, thought it was more just a reoccurring bit that originated from the first time, instead of recurring role names. Bit more ok with it now.

And I think it's less that you seem to be enjoying it and more that you're more brazen or express some sort of anti town sentiment in the RP.

[X] Vote NinetyNineLies

Happy with this, if there is a cult then see 99 as being one of the more likely candidates given earlier comments.
 
Clown Bean said:
#223 is notable because 99L IMMEDIATELY dismisses the possibility of there being a cult. While other people did the same, at least they usually gave some kind of rationale for it and typically left options open, while 99Lies seems to want to declare it impossible for no reason. Scum could potentially have some information that would make a cult unlikely (perhaps not being immune to recruiting forrex), or... he could just not want people to consider a cult for a rather obvious other reason.
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Just because I didn't contribute anything to the cult discussion doesn't mean I'm dismissing it.
 
-Rosen said:
I think on principle, if you're looking at Scum!Rep, then there is no chance that 99L is related. If you're looking at 3P!Rep, I think on a principle level it's better to lay low at least to start things out, since at that point you can both cast doubt on Atoms' claim that Rep exists, and potentially just get a free miss because of it. Letting that happen brings 3P closer to their own win condition, without really having to put in any work of their own, and 99L doesn't get implicated in anything at all. Sure, you don't have the potential of getting three Vanilla claims immediately like we're seeing in our current world, but you also just have more time to potentially sus out Vanillas in the first place, without potentially compromising numerical power in the process.
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I am assuming 3P cult in this scenario, yes..That is just generally my default assumption, if it's Maf cult the logic doesn't really hold. Overall which it is I feel requires knowledge of the setup I don't have, so I'm going to consider both possible until proven otherwise.

I don't disagree with your logic necessarily, as I said I'm less certain, but I think you're underestimating the potential value of the play to a potential cultist. Keep in mind that the Cult just lost their biggest advantage: the most important thing for a cult is that everybody doesn't know they exist, especially if they have to recruit vanillas specifically.

In this scenario, it is actually really really important that they find out who is a vanilla as quickly as possible, because the longer they potentially whiff, the weaker their standing is with people actively looking for them. You also want to know who is a PR both because it allows you to know who to potentially push in the future (because you also REALLY WANT to try and avoid the lynch targets being vanillas for as long as possible because it badly hurts your recruit pool), and also it's just generally good info. And very shortly after the cult lose their advantage, we have somebody trying to do both those things, for a rationale they've provided I find unconvincing. What am I supposed to think here?

I also think you're massively overestimating the imporatnce of keeping early cult members alive, if in exchange you get a much better sense of who you can recruit and who you can't. What is better- having two people helping you, or having one person currently helping you but making it two, or three, or four, infinitely easier? Again, I don't deny it's a high risk play, but I absolutely could see a cultist coming up with it and thinking it would be in their best interest, and I absolutely do not think it's as anti a cult win-con as you're presuming it is.
 
NinetyNineLies said:
Just because I didn't contribute anything to the cult discussion doesn't mean I'm dismissing it.
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Sure. Can you elaborate on what you meant to say when you wrote what I quoted? Just like, what was your process there, what was the point you were trying to make? My argument wasn't that you weren't contributing, it was that you made a statement that seemed to assume that there was no cult, while also taking actions that would abolutely be very useful for a hypothetical "can only recruit vanillas" cult group.
 
Byzantine said:
I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. If you mean my "please stop wasting time on Archeo they are town" post, that was me hoping to diffuse attention without saying anything useful to scum. it didn't work out, but I have seen it work for other players so I need to reassess how to pull that off.
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I meant more in the sense of, you're a vanilla. Why are you revealing yourself? There is no benefit to doing that.
 
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