- Location
- USA
[X] Full Saucer
[X] Half-Saucer
[X] Half-Saucer
Linked contents
[X] Arrowhead
The full saucer design is better than the half as it allows for full aft coverage unlike the other two designs which could just result in the romulans decloaking behind the ship and killing it. Also if your like we don't need extra space well guess what this is a warship and redundancy is something we will need same with extra reactors for more power, and empty space for upgrades.
Maybe even a machine shop so the thing can repair itself and it's fleet in between battle without having to go back to dock which could take months.
And to the people voting arrowhead or half saucer are you willing to be aboard the ship when it has giant blind spots that the enemy which is more manevrouble can cloak attack from, cause I bet more people voting for the full scarcer would trust it with the loves of the crew of themselves.
Maybe even a machine shop so the thing can repair itself and it's fleet in between battle without having to go back to dock which could take months.
And to the people voting arrowhead or half saucer are you willing to be aboard the ship when it has giant blind spots that the enemy which is more manevrouble can cloak attack from, cause I bet more people voting for the full scarcer would trust it with the loves of the crew of themselves.
Enthusiast#117
This is not the Profile you are looking for
- Location
- United States
It's specifically not a cruiser.
Cruisers are meant to be able to operate alone, while this thing will always be part of a fleet.
It doesn't need torpedoes, because other fleet elements already have them. It's job is to punch down enemy shields, and it's going to be really good at that.
GildedSergeant
Tarnished Gold and Rattling Bones
- Location
- Over There
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Half-Saucer
I would also be fine with the full-saucer, but narrowly prefer the half as it'll presumably be a bit cheaper if we don't have as much space to fill. Besides, we don't need much utility and while this ship will always be slow, we can at least have a bit more maneuverability this way.
I would also be fine with the full-saucer, but narrowly prefer the half as it'll presumably be a bit cheaper if we don't have as much space to fill. Besides, we don't need much utility and while this ship will always be slow, we can at least have a bit more maneuverability this way.
- Location
- Australia
If the Romulans can get into the blindspot and blow up a 500,000 ton dreadnought that easily despite it being surrounded by escort ships, then it isn't the fault of the dreadnought. Those escort crews need to be fired for not doing their jobs.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not weakness. That is life." Sometimes the enemy thinks of something you didn't, or pulls out a tech or tactic you have no answer for even outside doctrine. Why take the risk if you don't have to?
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Point me at an update in this or the prior thread were the extra free space was used for redundant systems, extra power, or left free instead of shoving laboratories, cargo bays, or Diplomatic/crew comfort into them.(Did not happen)
I bolded the part I am totally OK with. any reduction in free space for extra stuff. Having less internal space reduces the chance of people shoving unneeded science stuff on a dedicated warship design.
If we get actual options of installing redundant systems, extra power cores, or leaing them empty for future upgrades then yes I would vote for it. Sadly until now every time we had extra space it ended with either cargo bays, crew comfort, or science labs shoved into the ship.(We did not get options of installing back up reactors, extra warp cores, redundant systems and so on.)
Per GM and Star trek standard: Carriers useless go battleship. (I paraphrased but it basically boils down to the fact that even a wave of fighter craft will die to a single torpedo detonating inside their formation.)
First of have a like for wanting warships. Second, we are designing the ships, as such our designs shape doctrine. Just look at the stingray (that project was written as request for better cargo ships instead we build a patrol cruiser.)
Same goes for this Battleship. If we build it with nothing but weaponry and redundant systems Starfleet will not abuse them as explorers and use them to patrol the home front where they are always close
- Location
- United States
[X] Full Saucer
Iridium Flare
Cyborg Commando
- Location
- AC-130 Gunship circling overhead
I mean, that's what escorts are for. They may not be able to be there forever, but they can go a long way toward patching that weakness. Arrow hull means we don't send it out solo, Saucer means we can if we want, Half-Saucer means it'll do okay either way.
Enthusiast#117
This is not the Profile you are looking for
- Location
- United States
If it's the difference between a single well protected ship - with no weaknesses but less strength - ranging out alone vs a ship with a blind spot in the middleof a large fleet with other ships covering that blind spot, then yes I know exactly which one I feel safer on.
Does it matter whether the Romulan ship is scared away from my aft arc because of the guns I have mounted there, or because of the 3 other ships with that area in their firing arcs already?
You try to cover for your weaknesses, yes.
But not at the expense of your strengths.
We need this ship to have a strong concentration of firepower. Arrowhead will do that nicely.
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
[X] Arrowhead
[X] Full Saucer
The half saucer seems more the worst of both worlds (for this type of ship) than the best. (And all the 3/4 or 2/3rds proposals we get from time to time give up most or all of the advantages a half saucer does have (those being mostly based on having a flat aft) to regain little or none of the advantages of a full saucer (greater internal volume, mostly))
[X] Full Saucer
The half saucer seems more the worst of both worlds (for this type of ship) than the best. (And all the 3/4 or 2/3rds proposals we get from time to time give up most or all of the advantages a half saucer does have (those being mostly based on having a flat aft) to regain little or none of the advantages of a full saucer (greater internal volume, mostly))
I have a vague recollection of galaxy class hulls being built without most of their internals and being used as carriers/ defiant-or-smaller-craft-tenders (mostly combat shuttles,I think?) at some point, though that may have been from some sort of fan work.
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0t4n1z3r019
Member of the HAFPTG
- Location
- Philippines
[X] Full Saucer
This has enough room for utilities that will help, along with full coverage from a substantial number of phase cannons.
This has enough room for utilities that will help, along with full coverage from a substantial number of phase cannons.
StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
[X] Arrowhead
[X] Full Saucer
Alright, I can see the benefits of an arrowhead design. Especially if the rest of its attendant fleet/task force can corral enemy vessels into its intended firing arc ala old-school infantry squads with attached machine gunners. I still stand by the utility and coverage of the full saucer, though, so I won't be miffed if either makes it through the vote.
[X] Full Saucer
Alright, I can see the benefits of an arrowhead design. Especially if the rest of its attendant fleet/task force can corral enemy vessels into its intended firing arc ala old-school infantry squads with attached machine gunners. I still stand by the utility and coverage of the full saucer, though, so I won't be miffed if either makes it through the vote.
I think people are focusing too much on the Romulans cloaking tech and not their shields.
In the battle over earth as far as I can tell their cloaking had basically no role. Their shields however? Those were a huge problem.
Cloaking seems to me to be mostly a concern for ships caught out on their own or small groups. This battle ship design is never going to be on its own.
I'm not a treky by any means but if I recall correctly a major downside of the Romulans cloak is that it's so power intensive that they can't keep their energy weapons or shield active at the same time. So when they drop their cloak they're in a period of vulnerability for a short time. Meaning it's extremely risky to perform ambushes like they did against the Discovery unless they catch their prey by total suprise.
Because if they get noticed quickly enough they're going to get immediately deleted. And with our highly mobile Stingray that is very much a concern for them.
This is where the Arrowhead design has a huge advantage over the other hulls. It's ability for huge concentrated firepower to punch through their shields.
In the battle over earth as far as I can tell their cloaking had basically no role. Their shields however? Those were a huge problem.
Cloaking seems to me to be mostly a concern for ships caught out on their own or small groups. This battle ship design is never going to be on its own.
I'm not a treky by any means but if I recall correctly a major downside of the Romulans cloak is that it's so power intensive that they can't keep their energy weapons or shield active at the same time. So when they drop their cloak they're in a period of vulnerability for a short time. Meaning it's extremely risky to perform ambushes like they did against the Discovery unless they catch their prey by total suprise.
Because if they get noticed quickly enough they're going to get immediately deleted. And with our highly mobile Stingray that is very much a concern for them.
This is where the Arrowhead design has a huge advantage over the other hulls. It's ability for huge concentrated firepower to punch through their shields.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
This is a false dilemma. There is absolutely no reason at all the saucer cannot or should not be escorted in a wartime context. It merely presents the additional option of solo or small-group operations should the need or opportunity arise, while the arrowhead is ultra-specialized for fleet actions and only fleet actions.
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[X] Arrowhead
[X] Half-Saucer
From the text given about the last battle, our main problem was getting through the shields at all, not dealing with cloak ambushes. That means we need strong forward firepower, and strong engines to keep the enemies in its sight. It's meant to be the lynchpin of a battle group, not the sole combatant. We can rely on other ships to cover its rear during ambushes until it can turn around.
Of the two options with that, I'm neutral. The arrowhead's lack of torpedoes is a significant downside, but it offers better ability to cocentrate phase cannon firepower which is critical for bringing down shields in the first place. The half-saucer is more expensive (due to needing the 2nd hull) but the cost should be pretty minimal relative to the rest of the dreadnought anyway.
[X] Half-Saucer
From the text given about the last battle, our main problem was getting through the shields at all, not dealing with cloak ambushes. That means we need strong forward firepower, and strong engines to keep the enemies in its sight. It's meant to be the lynchpin of a battle group, not the sole combatant. We can rely on other ships to cover its rear during ambushes until it can turn around.
Of the two options with that, I'm neutral. The arrowhead's lack of torpedoes is a significant downside, but it offers better ability to cocentrate phase cannon firepower which is critical for bringing down shields in the first place. The half-saucer is more expensive (due to needing the 2nd hull) but the cost should be pretty minimal relative to the rest of the dreadnought anyway.
- Location
- west
[X] Half-Saucer
CubicAppalac
Why hello there, sit by the fire and join me.
- Location
- United States, Appalachia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Understandable. However, you could offset that by having the aforementioned screen do some anti-torpedo actions. Though I will concede the point that that may be unrealistic, unless it is.
The issue with torpedo strikes against fighter craft is that they are small, and ideally you'd want the craft to be both at a good distance from each other while still being able to cover themselves. In the case that torpedoes do get into a formation, the fighter craft should bank away if they have the chance.
Moving on to how they'd be effective, you could fit a bunch of bombers into the carrier and send those with a few fighter escorts to either bomb ships or bomb other targets, whichever. Basically, your usual bombing run-type situation.
Of course, that's my view, and if this still doesn't work then I'll concede that the carrier idea is shot. Though, I will be revisiting this idea when we get shields that can get small enough to fit on the fighters and bombers.
If true then that would lend credence to my ideas of building a dedicated carrier. We could also modify the design for other uses, of which I'll leave to you guys to think about.
Agreed. I'd also like to say that I still like my idea of just adding a bunch of flak to this ship, which would let us just cover space in firepower. It would also let us deal with any other polities who decide to copy any carrier idea we build. I'm thinking a CIWS-type system, maybe?
Edit: Though, I'm not really sure if it's realistic for this setting.
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NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
Sure the Romulans aren't stupid, but I'm not sure why many of the people pushing for full saucer are so fast to assume Starfleet is.
Why would it ever be sent out without escorts covering that angle. Capital ships have escorts.