THE INFINITE BROOD (Starcraft/Supreme Commander Crossover Quest!)

We, the irreplaceable ACU commander and general would be going on foot... Against the biological infesting threat? Without it being specifically needed to be done to save people/stop some ancient superweapon?

I thought we were like discussing stomping around on the top of the platform with our mech, without base building.

I'm gonna have to change my vote because that just breaks sense so much. Like, this is what you have lower ranked individuals for. This is the kind of thing that robotic remote controlled forces are meant to prevent being a thing.

[X] "No. We're going to burn it out at the root." [Land on planet, classic battle!]

Asmodemus said:

We, the irreplaceable ACU commander and general would be going on foot... Against the biological infesting threat? Without it being specifically needed to be done to save people/stop some ancient superweapon?

I thought we were like discussing stomping around on the top of the platform with our mech, without base building.

I'm gonna have to change my vote because that just breaks sense so much. Like, this is what you have lower ranked individuals for. This is the kind of thing that robotic remote controlled forces are meant to prevent being a thing.

[X] "No. We're going to burn it out at the root." [Land on planet, classic battle!]

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it's not starcraft if you can't do something stupid that's gonna look really cool

[X] "No. We're going to burn it out at the root." [Land on planet, classic battle!]

Asmodemus said:

We, the irreplaceable ACU commander and general would be going on foot... Against the biological infesting threat? Without it being specifically needed to be done to save people/stop some ancient superweapon?

I thought we were like discussing stomping around on the top of the platform with our mech, without base building.

I'm gonna have to change my vote because that just breaks sense so much. Like, this is what you have lower ranked individuals for. This is the kind of thing that robotic remote controlled forces are meant to prevent being a thing.

[X] "No. We're going to burn it out at the root." [Land on planet, classic battle!]

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Why wouldn't the zerg just rush banelings & the like constandly, or accelerate their little flying cruise missiles & use them against ground targets to cause relativistic damage? Heck, how do they fly in space! It's cool, that's why.

[x] "No. We're going to burn it out at the root." [Land on planet, classic battle!]

[x] "No. We're going to burn it out at the root." [Land on planet, classic battle!]

[x] "No. We're going to burn it out at the root." [Land on planet, classic battle!]

[x] "Good thinking. Prepare a boarding team." [Attack the space base, installation mission!]

Let's see if a write-in is viable;

[x] "No. We're going to burn it out at the root." [Land on planet, classic battle!]
-[x] "But first, let's set up some turrets in the bay. If the critters come out of that platform I want Stukov to shoot down anything they throw at us" (Fab some point defence for the ship)

Mailstrome said:

Why wouldn't the zerg just rush banelings & the like constandly, or accelerate their little flying cruise missiles & use them against ground targets to cause relativistic damage? Heck, how do they fly in space! It's cool, that's why.

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Banelings/Scourges use up valuable resources that could be used for better things than a suicide rush in my experience, only use them when I get them or respawns of them for free with abilities or I really need a pack of something destroyed.

And no, it's not particularly cool to get out of the ACU to explore a zerg infested wreck just because it might contain some nice stuff and for some reason you don't have infantry sized mechs to do this for you or something. It's just putting your life and existence as a human on the line on a whim in a way that is cringy as heck.

Now, if there was an actual reason to put ourselves in danger so, like it's falling towards a human population and we had to get in there fast to fix it or something like that, then on foot time it is.

@Asmodemus, DC is kindly writing us a bespoke story and you're really ragging on something they think is cool. Maybe your tone isn't coming through, or maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but I think this is not very kind behaviour.

You can say why you don't like something without making out that other people are bad to like it.

Shorter: don't yuck my yum.

[x] "No. We're going to burn it out at the root." [Land on planet, classic battle!]

Draz said:

@Asmodemus, DC is kindly writing us a bespoke story and you're really ragging on something they think is cool. Maybe your tone isn't coming through, or maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but I think this is not very kind behaviour.

You can say why you don't like something without making out that other people are bad to like it.

Shorter: don't yuck my yum.

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Don't want me to be slightly harsh? Don't direct quote me as @Mailstrome did and insist that I should find the scenario I have problems with cool because other things in the setting require suspension of disbelief too.

And at my most critical, I noted situations that would be more fitting for the scenario our GM wants to set up, as I do not find the whole idea of an on foot adventure terrible, just not fitting as presented here and now. I'd be all for a neat installation adventure when it makes sense.

Draz said:

@Asmodemus, DC is kindly writing us a bespoke story and you're really ragging on something they think is cool. Maybe your tone isn't coming through, or maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but I think this is not very kind behaviour.

You can say why you don't like something without making out that other people are bad to like it.

Shorter: don't yuck my yum.

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Conversely, Asmodemus is within their rights to reject the subjective opinion that Mailstrome has treated as a more objective position. Cool is not universal and any argument that boils down to "because its cool" without addressing why a person finds such an idea uncool is one that fails to consider the other party and only serves to infuriate them.

Asmodemus finds the idea of Clarke fighting on foot herself rather than relying on subordinates or remotely commanded robots stupid and laid out the reasons why they thought so. Mailstrome responded with a statement that didn't take into account any of their objections and only provided the counterargument of "it's cool."

That is a frustrating response, in particular when the fundamental disagreement here is that one of the party's involved doesn't think the thing in question is cool. Think of it this way, a person has a meal but they don't find it to their liking and lists out the reasons why. Another person then comes in and doesn't address any of the individual points the person listed as to why they didn't like the meal and simply says they found it tasty and since that's the case the other party should too.

Having one's opinions and reasoning be dismissed with the justification that things appeal to another person's subjective sense of taste so it should for them as well, when the reason why it's an issue in the first place is because it doesn't appeal to their subjective sense of taste, can be very infuriating.

Again, it's akin to "I think this thing tastes bad because of X" being replied to with just "I think its tasty, you should too."

DragonCobolt said:

This is the only part of your post that is technically wrong: While she is a skilled ACU pilot, she's also quite proficient in other weapons. It's a little silly and kinda breaks SupCom Lore, but it is a part of A) how HEAT works mechanically (marksman and her guns skill, for instance, make her pretty dangerous in combat, and her just as planned sparks and a squad of minions can be used both in and out of an ACU) and B) me smooshing Starcraft and SupCom together.

Though, now I'm not so sure about B...since the smooshing is to see how things interact...

But also, installation missions are cool!

Bah!

I'll figure out how to keep the installation mission appropriately supcom, somehow.

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Covert operations, assassination, subterfuge, asset extraction i.e. kidnapping are a thing and better done by humans than mass spawned robots. I would think that these kind of things are what this worlds Tosh is very good at hence his spot in the failed Phy-ops program and now his in-universe reason for being assigned to our mission.

I just want to clarify that our QM has done a fine job making an interesting crossover and with good writing, showing their clear skill. We as the questors/questers/voters may have a differing view on options presented by Cobolt like this and the noted objections by some to the idea of getting out to have a mini party during the Protoss encounter with the locals of the last planet, but I don't think we'd call them bad or foolish for presenting them.

They're kind of learning their audience as we go while we're trying to learn their system, and we're sharing our viewpoints, reactions and opinions, hopefully without coming across as insulting to them. Talking helps both sides of the game understand the others' views.

And as I've noted, I'm not opposed to General Clarke getting some foot time for urgent situations that require it. Preferably with some nice fancy gear for that.

But this just does not feel like an occasion for it, even though I do want to poke the platforms, I find that an on foot inspection for possible loot when there's a loose rampaging bioweapon that kills people in heavy powered armor is a choice I find questionable at best.

Now if there was a distress call from the platform, or at least something beyond 'maybe there's an adjutant in the high tech wreckage' then I'd find it more reasonable to have an on foot team, preferably personally directing some simple minimally interactive robotic troops for maximum effect in close quarters.

[x] "No. We're going to burn it out at the root." [Land on planet, classic battle!]

I agree with having Stukov provide an aggressive defense, but I'm not sure we really need to specify it.

[X] "Good thinking. Prepare a boarding team." [Attack the space base, installation mission!]

The way I plan is I think up something neat, then figure out how to manage it. So, if the installation mission wins, I'll do my best to make sure it's both cool and makes sense!

EDIT: Also, the new update's gonna be a bit delayed as we continue to work on the Gear system. It's...very close to being good, I can feel it. We just need to get the math right.

[X] "No. We're going to burn it out at the root." [Land on planet, classic battle!]

Spart117MC said:

Conversely, Asmodemus is within their rights to reject the subjective opinion that Mailstrome has treated as a more objective position. Cool is not universal and any argument that boils down to "because its cool" without addressing why a person finds such an idea uncool is one that fails to consider the other party and only serves to infuriate them.

Asmodemus finds the idea of Clarke fighting on foot herself rather than relying on subordinates or remotely commanded robots stupid and laid out the reasons why they thought so. Mailstrome responded with a statement that didn't take into account any of their objections and only provided the counterargument of "it's cool."

That is a frustrating response, in particular when the fundamental disagreement here is that one of the party's involved doesn't think the thing in question is cool. Think of it this way, a person has a meal but they don't find it to their liking and lists out the reasons why. Another person then comes in and doesn't address any of the individual points the person listed as to why they didn't like the meal and simply says they found it tasty and since that's the case the other party should too.

Having one's opinions and reasoning be dismissed with the justification that things appeal to another person's subjective sense of taste so it should for them as well, when the reason why it's an issue in the first place is because it doesn't appeal to their subjective sense of taste, can be very infuriating.

Again, it's akin to "I think this thing tastes bad because of X" being replied to with just "I think its tasty, you should too."

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You're absolutely right that I should have responded directly to their points instead of being insulting. Regardless of their tone, I should have addressed their reasoning, including something I missed (they know nothing about installation missions) and one of their misunderstood assumptions (that we'd have to lead the suit and/or be out of our element). I'll resolve these in second & then first, because I think they'll make more sense that way as a whole.

So, SupCom is the spiritual successor to Total Annihilation, and if Command Units were as they were then, we'd be out of our element completely. Luckily, a variety of command upgrades exist, which make the already beefy command units that much more nasty: the ability to fire their basic laser much, much faster; the ability to have a personal shield that regenerates at a moderate rate (compared to glacial hp regen) and massively increases hp; faster movement; more defensive armour (more hp); a quantum teleporter that allows to attack from unexpected locations; and several base-building upgrades (more passive resource generation & faster building) that aren't relevent to this. Oh, and you also natively can just dump energy reserves into something that can kill most enemies in one shot. Generally, SupCom Commanders are easily T3.5 death stars if you support them correctly.

As for installation missions, these are generally dungeon-crawls where you start with a Hero unit or two, plus a small array of allies. You'll generally find traps to deter you or things you must avoid, ambushes, etc. On the other hand, you will usually rescue tons of units, hack defenses to work for you or ambush enemies (killing or debilitating them), and find neat lore. It removes the depressing economic grind + turtle of 1-2 hours and instead gives you tactical choices, requires quick thinking, and with DC at the helm, could even be nonlinear or at least offer multiple routes, with an ultimate strategic goal of dealing with the zerg in space.

There's no reason whatsoever we can't do espionage work, use the environment and tech around us (allowing us to bring in allies, rebuild destroyed vehicles, etc), and generally waltz around while clearing out the space platforms, should that be the winning vote.

Now, as for fun, it's subjective, but I shouldn't have just dismissed someone else's arguments out of hand, I let their previous responses colour my judgement of them while I couldn't understand critical parts of their argument, and assumed they had a working knowledge of SupCom & Starcraft, not only am I sorry for doing that, I hope they can still enjoy this Quest.

[x] "Good thinking. Prepare a boarding team." [Attack the space base, installation mission!]

Mailstrome said:

and one of their misunderstood assumptions (that we'd have to lead the suit and/or be out of our element

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I'm going to assume that you meant 'leave the suit', as one of my 'misunderstood assumptions'.

Frankly, our dear GM was quite clear about that being the case:

DragonCobolt said:

This is the only part of your post that is technically wrong: While she is a skilled ACU pilot, she's also quite proficient in other weapons. It's a little silly and kinda breaks SupCom Lore, but it is a part of A) how HEAT works mechanically (marksman and her guns skill, for instance, make her pretty dangerous in combat, and her just as planned sparks and a squad of minions can be used both in and out of an ACU) and B) me smooshing Starcraft and SupCom together.

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Asmodemus said:

We, the irreplaceable ACU commander and general would be going on foot...

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DragonCobolt said:

it's not starcraft if you can't do something stupid that's gonna look really cool

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This mission, from what they've said would not just merely be a setpiece battle where we accomplish a series of objectives in a ACU rather than base build, but us out of the ACU, on foot.

Side note, I've played every Supreme Commander and every Starcraft game. I'm familiar with the settings. I was just uncertain how an installation mission, as in a mission inside an installation, would have worked with our ACU in this quest. Dragon then clarified with their posts that we wouldn't have been inside of our ACU.

@Asmodemus, cc: @Spart117MC

I said that I thought you were being rude, not that I thought you were wrong to have an opinion or voice it.

I think we'd all have a nicer time in these forum games if folks were a bit kinder to each other and less high strung about stuff.

E.g.

> Alice: The boarding mission means leaving our main strength behind and is a bit unrealistic (in this wacky sci-fi game, lol), so I'm not keen on it.

> Bob: I think it's very cool! I love those missions in SC

> Alice: Eh, I don't feel that way. I want cool robots! I'm sure we'll get a good tale either way!

Draz said:

*snip*

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GM: Options
Voter A: "Eh, this course of action doesn't make sense to me, so I'm not voting for it."
GM: "Fits the series to do things that don't make sense if it's cool!"
Voter A: *doesn't think it's cool as is but just leaves it at the vote rather than berate the GM or make a whole analysis*
Voter B later on: "at Voter A: Lots of stuff here doesn't make sense! Doesn't matter if it makes sense to you cause it's COOL!"
Voter A: *A bit tweaked at the insistence of it being cool and certain things not making sense* "At least one of those things actually makes sense! And I don't find it cool! I find it the opposite of cool! Maybe if it had X things it'd be sensible and totally cool though!"
Voter C: "Why are you being so mean Voter A! Why are you disparaging the GM and being rude to them!?"