- Location
- Texas
I asked and got confirmation that those flecks were actively warming the ground around them, leading me and some others to conclude that they were radioactive (i.e. probably uranium).
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
[X][Notes SOP]: Finish the job
Keep reading 4x blocks/day until the notes are exhausted.
Not when to get that you just burned your only Standard against a bunch of hostile ninja who will get 2 Standards and 4 Supplementals each towards the sole task of killing / beating you before you whatsoever get to act again. Even if you burned ALL those tags on a single dodge, thats literally the same value as one single Level 32 Substitution. And the alternative is getting 5x the Action Economy you had by doing SC opening, and having them actively contribute to the fight. Last I checked they could cast jutsu of their own too.
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- Location
- Texas
[X][Hyūga] Finalize the deal: Hazō will provide them with sapphire and diamond only, in exchange for a healthy income stream.
[X][Notes SOP]: Finish the job
[X][Notes SOP]: Finish the job
Not one aoe jutsu no, because you SC first then run away with your Supplementals, so you're in separate Zones, and the clones can Substitute away if in danger too, which should suffice not to take Consequences from aoe jutsu, because those tend not to be very heavy hitting.
Also, uh, Akane had more CP than that I'm pretty sure. Its either that or the SC CP numbers you quote are wrong (which they aren't, checked).
One reason why I'm so convinced of SC being a good opening is that even before the big FOOM spike, when she was barely Taij 50 and Athl.. 40ish? When we ran simulated fights with her against Daizen / LoTROL Kakashi etc on Discord, she had greater odds of winning these matchups and many more than losing them if she opened with SC and used it creatively, while she had absolutely no odds of winning nor surviving any of them if she opened with Flame Aura or refused to use clones in general. And she had ~7.5k XP back then, roughly half of what she'd ended up with.
Notably, back then she didn't have CP trouble making 4 clones and having them combo Substitution/PKH while also keeping enough chakra for herself to employ her tricks. Its possible the SC chakra costs have changed in the meantime of course, I find that quite likely even, but with the current numbers if you got to 500 CP you could have as many as 1 Prime 9 Clones and keep 17 CP each, which is enough for Sub / PKH (or 1 Prime 4 clones with 50 CP each, which is plenty).
By the way, are there any reasons not to keep several clones actively out on guard at all times while on a mission with a genin team, when their duration is "A Day" at AB 6, which it was for Akane? Chakra is stated to recover to its full pool daily in the rules so.. that should be an option? Meaning Akane could have had 4 Clones up constantly on watch without needing to summon them first round of combat, all while keeping herself topped up on Chakra for most of the day?
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'd say more like "SOP: Spend 4 shadow clone blocks on sealing notes." We'll stop naturally when we run out
EDIT: internet was out, I see something similar has been posted now
[X][Notes SOP]: Finish the job
May want to specify sealing notes unless you want Hazou to check out the MedKnow ones too
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
There are a few angles to this, in my impression:
- I expect Asuma to be of like mind with Hazou on this topic. That is, I don't see them truly disagreeing about goals and values as it pertains to 3D Sealing. Both of them want to win the Dragonwar, and are willing to seize any opportunity to stack the deck in our favour. Both of them hate Orochimaru and are wary of his power, not wanting him to grow stronger. Etc. It can be roughly taken that the collaboration of Asuma and Hazou will be better at achieving both Asuma's goals and Hazou's goals as it pertains to 3D Sealing.
- 3D Sealing is ridiculously hard to unlock. Even if you knew what to do and grinded ES 50, you'd still need to somehow find a source of substrate, and then, crucially, you'd either need direct access to the Great Seal (at minimum!) or direct access to a cooperative Primordial Sealmaster. Nobody other than Hazou and Orochimaru are even slightly close to qualifying for Primordial Sealmastery; even Sasori is only a maybe if we actively offered our support to the Akatsuki, which we won't do. Functionally speaking, this is a self-keeping secret.
- (And Orochimaru, if he does unlock it, is unlikely to share it. We saw how he treats his fan club, the only scenario I could see him sharing 3D Sealing is if it's directly to Kabuto so he can be a better assistant, and even then he may simply figure Kabuto's just not suited for the task, being medical-spec instead of sealing-spec)
- Orochimaru is likely to figure out 3D Sealing on his own given time, in my estimation, but our talks with Asuma are not likely to speed up that timetable. Orochimaru knows of Earthshaping and has access to the Great Seal and plausibly the Seedling. It'll take a lot of work with just that, but strictly speaking that is most likely sufficient to meet all the requirements with enough work. So the question is not "does Orochimaru get 3D Sealing or not?" but "How much of a head-start do we have over Orochimaru?" This head-start is crucial for scenarios where we learn that Primordial Sealmastery is too strong to allow Orochimaru to have and we must use our head-start to kill Orochimaru before he unlocks it on his own, but just in general it's purely to our advantage to figure out the requirements faster. (I again point at Asuma and Hazou sharing the same goals and values on this topic: letting Asuma help us puts him in a position to possibly betray us and speed up Orochimaru's progress, but Asuma would not do that since the prospect of an existential-threat Orochimaru would terrify him as well).
- Furthermore, Orochimaru working on Primordial Sealing might possibly make the difference between winning and losing the Dragonwar. We don't know how much time we have left, or whether the task is possible at all, so our imperative is to accept any boon we can get. Provided Orochimaru with Primordial Sealing is not an existential threat for the setting, I would not deny him Primordial Sealing even if I could.
- The help I want to request from Asuma doesn't need to share our entire process, only the fact that we need a specific kind of substrate. I would consider this, on net, very little information loss. There is little that Asuma would learn that he wouldn't have already deduced from priors.
- The true value of Primordial Sealmastery is, much like with paper Sealing, the Primordial Seals themselves. We are under no obligation to share the runes that we create, and even if someone else gains access to the field they will do their own research and come up with their own runes instead. And the only other person liable to discover the field is Orochimaru, a Sannin with decades of experience keeping OPSEC from the rest of society. Our runes will remain clan secrets and their capabilities will remain unknown to the world at large.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
WDB, Divine Serpent, Red River, and actually most AOE we know about disagree. Pretty easy to get high rolls on multiple zones, the true limiter is chakra which a jonin like the one that ganked Akane will have in spades.
Yep, slightly more (320 CP)
This is literally thousands of XP away for Akane. Doable with FOOM but not in a timely manner when accounting for pyramid needs, and I don't think that's the quickest "get stronger" route for her compared to pumping fundamentals or getting Flame Aura to a higher bonus.
Akane's clones last 12 hours and was at AB 5. I think she was ambushed multiple days into her mission so casting from Leaf wouldn't have helped. Casting mid-mission is a problem if you get ambushed before you regen, but otherwise can be a good strategy that she took advantage of to gank Shirogane
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
She had 320, meaning that making 4 clones would leave her with: 320 - (150+(4 * 25)) = 70 CP which would then distribute across all 5 instances of her, leaving each instance with 14 CP. Which is not enough to do a Substitution without falling unconscious. If a clone falls unconscious it will pop. If Prime falls unconscious, all the clones will pop.
As per your statement above, she is facing "a bunch" of hostile ninja. Unclear on what that means, but I think the following definitions seem reasonable as minimal numbers.
"a few" = 3
"several" = 4
"a bunch" = 5
So, you've now got five 1v1 fights of enemy ninja vs Akane-instance, except each Akane-instance is essentially out of chakra. She can boost at most 2 points, can't Substitute, and can't cast
Good luck with that. You've been riding this "SC is the best and only combat tactic!" hobby horse for a long time, and I agree that there are many fights where it's a good, or even the best, opener...but I think it's worth considering that it may not be optimal in every fight.
Sure, the clones can cast jutsu. Jutsu that cost no more than 13 CP.
Note that we gave Hazō the prereq not for seeing the Great Seal per se, but for having the Great Seal stored in his Iron Nerve memory.
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- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ami is credibly against this as a former (?) member of a Thinker clan.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
- Electrocution: genin
- Substitution: genin (Scanning the notes, Hazō thinks this is also super-speed, rather than any kind of spacetime technique)
- Twin Repulsion: genin
He thinks they are chūnin-level difficulty. At the time, they were right at the limit of his ability.
The Tower-standard Anti-Byakugan seal is chūnin-level. While the Tower prefers that relatively few people learn it to keep the Hyūga from going ballistic, Kagome knows it already and would be glad to teach you.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hmm, I think you've posted this info post already right?
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Yeah, I didn't want to get into the weeds on that at the time, but that's my main source of edge-case uncertainty for whether Orochimaru gaining 3D Sealing is inevitable. It sounds plausible that sufficiently intense and protracted study of the Great Seal would also qualify, but that's not a certainty, but it's even more plausible if Orochimaru also gets access to the Seedling to reference. Still not a certainty, but weighing all the evidence I'd say it's likely enough that Orochimaru has access to enough 3D Sealing knowledge, given enough time to study it. And if it's sufficiently likely that Orochimaru will unlock 3D Sealing on his own, we can't afford to act as if that ticking timer doesn't exist.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh, forgot to respond to this part: The costs have not changed. No idea how you were running that such that it worked, but you did it wrong.
Yup, my bad. Paper had put a proposed answer in QM QUINOA and I didn't realize it had already been posted.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
- Location
- Texas
Isn't that how the actual substitution jutsu works too?
Tbf, I did run many of the simuls together with Paper so I'd assume he'd have caught me if I did run them wrong... so not sure? Maybe I'm wrong as to the amount and it was 3 clones? It was a long time ago, and I do recall something to the effect of the costs changing, but could be Mandela effect. In any case the point remains that as long as you get past the initial hurdle of CP required to summon a meaningful amount of clones, you can quite explosively increase both the number of clones, and the CP per clone, due to the scaling, so the jutsu scales very, very well. You just need enough per clone to Sub or do another trick like that, and they can be extremely useful in a fight - and present in it without needing a Standard, starting from AB 6, because chakra recovers fast enough to keep them up permanently at that point. And even if they pop, they will refund you some.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yup. Substitution, jutsu or seal, is movement, not teleportation.
I don't think that WDB is hitting a Substituting SC to be honest, though? Not unless its a ninjutsu specialist jounin's capstone. Its not a particularly high rolling technique, similar for the rest?
For example WDB hits for Level + AB. So at level 60, which only a ninjutsu specialist jounin would really have, and thats if they specialized in aoe, it would still only roll 67 base. Since its a full round action, you are not applying any boosters to that, at the beginning of combat, if you even have any because ninjutsu isn't easy to boost.
An SC with 59 Athletics and Sub 32 is rolling at 75 base to dodge, so that'd need a +8 relative dice to hit, which is quite uncommon. And it'd not be difficult to prioritize Athletics and Substitution with such a build, so as to minimize the chances that your clones get hit, so anything up to 90 base really shouldn't be that hard... plus you would probably want to get enough Chakra Reserves to fit 2 Subs worth of CP per clone so it has some versatility in its techniques... well, we won't be able to do that now unless we get Akane back I guess.
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- Location
- Yes.
[X] Action Plan: Mending Fences
I'm not entirely sure Yuno's section is necessary anymore because Noburi seems to indicate that he was on it in the last chapter, so here's a plan that cuts that out in favor of adding other stuff. Lot of room so if you have reasonable suggestions ping me.
[X] Action Plan: Once More, A Ridiculous Combination of Plans
Word Count: 233
THIS PLAN IS NO LONGER UPDATED. DO NOT VOTE FOR IT.
Timeline: Bandit clearing + 1 research cycle
I'm not entirely sure Yuno's section is necessary anymore because Noburi seems to indicate that he was on it in the last chapter, so here's a plan that cuts that out in favor of adding other stuff. Lot of room so if you have reasonable suggestions ping me.
[X] Action Plan: Once More, A Ridiculous Combination of Plans
Word Count: 233
THIS PLAN IS NO LONGER UPDATED. DO NOT VOTE FOR IT.
Optimize w/Mari, Kei, Noburi.Aggrieved clanmates:General approach:Hazo classic: earnest, honest, open.Take a minute before reacting/responding if frustrated.Focus on listening, understanding.
Demanding they surrender their jutsu without discussion was a mistake. He's sorry.Hazo withheld nothing useful in combat during the war.A few diagnostic seals (useless for combat), a few they can't use (and therefore useless), but nothing else.He's reconsidering MARS access: it potentially leaked with Akane's death.
KEI adoption/justu will come up for every clan.Goketsu's influential. What they decide, collectively, could set precedent.What do they want? What issues do they see? Do they have ideas? You need something that works for everyone - them included.Encourage them to ruminate: you don't need an answer immediately.
Offscreen:Go to Asuma directly and take a bandit clearing missions or two.Bring someone else with you. Noburi?Summon low-cost Dogs to help track.
Sealing:Prime SSA: MS8 Latching derivative.SC SSA: Reusable Rocket BootsImprove the seal until it challenges stagnationAim for six uses, and then boost the bonus as much as possible
Non-SSA SCAbort any seal if it seems difficult at all, do not risk sealing failuresWork on Dampener seal. Harumitus's cold seal. Genin seals from Jiraiya.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Yes! But we can do this with pieces of paper attached to objects!!!
- Location
- Italy
@FaintlySorcerous; @Sir Stompy or any other Plan makers
Would you be willing to add
Would you be willing to add
- Probe with Asuma if Ma and Pa would be willing to teach you TH
- Its for the Jinchuuriki seal, but you're already spread too thin. If he can help?
- Arguments: Dragonwar? Naruto's seal? Jiraiya's heir learning from an incompetent(from their POV) TH?
- SC-Test MARS activated Rocket Boots on your body for escape. See how many can you use at once.
Lots of AoE jutsu hit more than 1 Zone. Which is why I said a "decent" one. She'd be at most 1 Zone away, 2 with RBs an AoE jutsu with a radius of 1 Zone from central would wipe them all.
SCs don't regenerate chakra.
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- Location
- Yes.
I can ask if Asuma can arrange for a TH tutor; not sure why we want to be going for Ma and Pa though?