Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Hmm, yes. I'll find a way to reword that.
IIRC Hidan told us that we had to dedicate kills to Jashin for Jashin to intercede on our behalf, which seems desirable for sealing, among other things. So I figure if we're going to to the manslaughter, we might as well earn Jashin Points for it. I'll change this if there's a consensus against it, I don't have a strong opinion.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I am also against dedicating the kills to Jashin. Honestly, I'm against even going on the mission at all, but the consensus of the hivemind seems to be that we need to do it, just in case Hidan crops up, asking if we've killed anyone yet.
Since tenketsu opening is just as vital for Rifting as Modded MS8, I want to start now, no waiting for more mednin first.
If Noburi's early results say he needs better skills, fine. But there is no reason not to start now. The worst thing that happens it that he kills a few chakra boar or whatever.
Valid point. Will remove. Unless @Paperclipped says it's okay.
Yes! I vehemently disagree with this. If Orochimaru ever sees the estate looking like the GS he's gonna freak out and start demanding answers that we can't give w/o spilling the beans on PS and ES. Let's not.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Fair, I suppose; the big thing we want is to be able to be honest with Hidan whnen he interrogates us, though. Based on what mythology we know of Jashin, doing what we're doing anyway gets plenty of favor. We don't need to murder in his name.
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No. We do not worship Jashin, or in any way shape or form condones murder for the sake of murder.
If Jashin happens to be hostile to humanity, Jashin should be on Hazo's diety extermination list. If Jashin happens to help Hazo, then OK. But Hazo does not worship or revere Jashin.
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- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
This echoes my sentiments as well.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Unrelatedly: Re: The Aburame deal:
As long as we average out to doing two SSA-empowered sets of sealing per month, we can pretty easily just do that on our off-days, since we can't seal then anyway.
@Paperclipped @eaglejarl @Velorien How much time per-day are we talking with regard to that? About the same amount as it'd take to seal?
As long as we average out to doing two SSA-empowered sets of sealing per month, we can pretty easily just do that on our off-days, since we can't seal then anyway.
@Paperclipped @eaglejarl @Velorien How much time per-day are we talking with regard to that? About the same amount as it'd take to seal?
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Just a bit before Akane got murdered, Asuma taught her a couple Fire ninjutsu. Do we have those or did they die with her?
I'm pretty sure that the seal testing grounds are off property and outside the walls of Leaf? Or am I confused about that because that was only the case back when our whole compound was outside Leaf walls?
Also, what about the Koi ponds and the artful water channels that the Koi can surreptitiously jump into?
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I'm still salty people learned those tbh, they were the cause of her death because they were not nearly action economy efficient techniques, let alone at low level, and we know they were used in the combat. Had she not learned them, and not used them, she might well have survived, but people prioritized the fire flavour above actually maximizing her combat effectiveness. Not to mention spending your whole first turn casting Flame Aura is a downright terrible idea when you're being ambushed (and even in regular combat, you should open with SCs, Flame Aura is really mostly only useful if you have prep time). So doing that and Phoenix Rebirth etc might well have cost her her life.
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- Location
- Liverpool
Note: this write up is not aimed at Random in particular, theirs just happened to be the first post going more in on both things that I saw after the update. Also, I'll vote shortly, a bit limited on mobile at the moment.
I think that we're kinda running out of days here. A couple days a month on goo bombs. More for telescopes. Plus missions for gems. And potentially Asuma training. And running the clan. And...
And working on necromancy and sealing. There's an argument for Hazō to learn technique hacking, which would take substantial time. Even just having the time to play with primordial sealing is a thing both Hazō and us have been wanting to do, but limited screen time (and XP to invest).
As much as the cash is useful, if we don't even really have time to hunt scrolls or potentially go ourselves to get cave crystals that nobody else knows what exactly to look for, I'm not sure the gem missions are a great use of our time. Maybe we do that after a little while, to shake up the market we already started to dominate?
Even with Shadow clones, we're being stretched pretty thin. And all those shadow clones are at the cost of FOOM. The great seal repair at this point might just need time and XP, and that's a heck of an opportunity cost. Because even if the conclave works, we need to be ready to actually fix the thing. Especially if the dragons eat another boss. We need to be ready to do the thing as soon as they are.
For the benefit of everyone else, this is not the consensus of those who know the mechanics, and personally I think it's completely wrong.
PR was really good and it's a shame she didn't get the chance to use it.
We can agree to disagree. Flame Aura is a garbage opening in a scenario where you are ambushed and presumably do not start first, especially compared to Shadow Clone which can hugely save your skin. Using FA means there is a very real chance that you are dead before you can even do anything (because mostly everyone else will have gotten 2 rounds worth of Actions before you can act in combat, and even against a single opponent at your level that is quite likely to result in your death, let alone against multiple). And starting with FA is a near-certainty of having to fight with Consequence penalties even if you survive, which defeats the entire point of using the booster. Oh, and lets not forget she literally died to Consequences inflicted by Flame Aura failure, so the jutsu both metaphorically and literally killed her.
Phoenix Rebirth meanwhile is flat out a weaker Substitution that costs more CP and only works against Fire jutsu. Even assuming it provided its linked Chakra Boost, which could simply have been used as a free action for cheaper, too, she was still better off saving her Supplementals for Sub to be able to get out in a pinch, plus SCs have enough CP to Substitute which makes them really quite tactically powerful. Its not even some minor effectivess swing, Akane opening with SC will beat Akane opening with FA 10 times out of 10, and while the latter is still an amazing jutsu, it should have been reserved for prepared combat situations only rather than spending a valuable combat turn to use it.
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Those jutsu were secrets of the Tower and were explicitly not to be shared with other members of the clan. They didn't exactly die with her, but we no longer have access to them. This is unlike FA, which we still have (even if we don't have a scroll, Paper has said that Asuma would be happy to teach it back to us).
- Location
- Yes.
...We're going to have to negotiate passage through Cat for the Conclave, aren't we. Ugh.After some chatting at the Conclave, Skunk is placed on the map and the southeast coastline is radically restructured. Turtle completely surrounding Slug is, apparently, 100% intentional. Some more new sky colours, too!
I'm honestly considering shortening Pangolin and the other clans in the northeast. It's getting frankly ridiculous how much space Pangolin has just to keep up this many land borders, and clan density is low enough up there that I can bring them more into alignment with the size and shape of the southeast while also reining Pangolin's size in a little. A job for another day, though.
- Location
- Texas
It's also a matter of "what can we actually do this?" Right now we have an almost-perfect stretch of time in which we're staying in Leaf to finish the 3-4 rift seals for 2+ months. Once those months are up, we need to make the trip to O'Uzu, make yet another seal, and then we're almost certainly going to be moving nonstop for... Months? Diving into the Pure Lands to rescue our loved ones, dealing with A-Day/J-Day, dealing with the Akatsuki... It just doesn't seem like we're going to have another 2-3 month period in Leaf for a very long time. I think we either pick up the TH apprenticeship and stunt now, or we'll have to revisit it in like a year or more.
Now, do we need TH? There's probably an avenue for Minatosealing to channel Kurama's chakra without harming Naruto, or for Minatosealing to provide the same effect as the tenketsu opening but with nature chakra instead, or any other number of options that Kagome hasn't hypothesized because he doesn't actually know Minatosealing.
There's also the fact that Minato used Minatosealing to be able to teleport around the Elemental Nations willy nilly, which means interesting things for the chakra diffusion problem.
There's also also the fact that sealing derivatives grant larger bonuses that just sealing, though I suppose we have PS as well. I think it's likely they'll each specialize in different things, but we'll see eventually.
Hey Nekkar, do you enjoy having your head attached? If so, let us pass. If not, we can work with that.
- Location
- floating away
Summons can go any distance from their summoner- as long as Hazo spends <36 hours out of the village, then with Noburis refills Kagome's spider summons could support Hazo from a distance.
Also, better to have the options and not need them than to not have them at all. If Kagome has CR 30 he can summon a single jonin spider in a pinch and keep fighting.
There are tiny Arachnids that can shapechange. Spiders have poor long distance endurance, but a tiny companion could cling to a jogging ninja to mitigate that.
I included it from the base plan I modified because it seemed nice and want Hazo + Asuma to be closer personally. On retrospect I see that it's pretty dubious and am fine omitting that line.
Thanks, I actually forgot about that. I just thought most of the compound plans were needlessly complex. I'll carve it out when I have time.
Things that motivated me to make a plan separate from the other existing plans:
- I think the Haramitsu stuff isn't an efficient use of narrative time. He's a barely genin sealmaster, we could reinvent his cooling seal in a single afternoon.
- Ditto with Sasha, though having Hazo act as an X:COM commander could be interesting if she's played that way.
- One of the plans had a "bring adoptees on the be-a-jashinist mission" which was very alarming.
- Now is not the time to buy TH, we just unlocked a different double cost research stat we need to level.
Things I wanted to accomplish this plan:
- Getting Kagome some summons
- Searching for leads for level appropriate combat missions to unstagnate Hazo in Arachnid
- Mollifying Hidan with minimal reputational damage
To provide some feedback on your plan, which I like:
Can we please not have Hazo actually be a Jashinist? Because this is actually worshiping Jashin, and not just mollifying Hidan.
Why Noburi specifically? He seems among the most likely of uplift to be disturbed by slaughtering bandits.
Do we really want to spill the beans on this-
Oh, excellent.
Also, thank you for the feedback in general!
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[X] Action Plan: Delegating Upwards
[X] Action Plan: Mending Fences
[X] Acidshill
Lot to sort through, I'll hopefully give better feedback and estate plan thoughts later.
[X] Action Plan: Mending Fences
[X] Acidshill
Lot to sort through, I'll hopefully give better feedback and estate plan thoughts later.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
I don't usually have time to read much much more than the threadmarks. Can someone tell me the following:
What are CATEARS seals and why did we research them?
What are CAPS seals and why did we want to research them?
What is ultimately the rough consensus on attempting to gain empowerment and boons from Jashin in exchange for dedicating kills to him, said kills being people Hazō either thinks are expedient to kill to improve the lives of others (like bandits) or thinks will be killed anyway (anyone awaiting the death penalty or otherwise being on Asuma's kill list)?
Comments on the current plans:
@RandomOTP
If we actually do want to dedicate any kills at all to Jashin then Noburi might well be the wrongest person to take among all the Gokētsu.
I think taking over Sasha's sheet only makes sense after she graduates.
You have the Noburi lootbox section twice. Removing it once will free up word count.
@ProperAttorney
As above, I don't think we can take full control of her sheet before she graduates. And until then it doesn't seem worth the effort.
@FaintlySorcerous
How do we explain our blatant lies towards her? Just accept that she'll think that Hazō is kind of shitty from now on?
I think we should be open to Yuno's honest input. Allow her to try and convince us of her viewpoint as much as she wants.
Maybe change it to "Hazo held one relevant secret back during the war". I mean we do have other secrets we held back. Beyond even FOOM.
We do not have enough jutsu for a one-to-one exchange to be even remotely feasible, so this would pretty much decimate our sealing advantage. Remember that the majority of our jutsu are either Pangolin or Leaf. I also think that it's fair if compensation isn't to all of KEI, but more tailored towards the adopted ninja and their personal Clanless teachers and mentors. My own proposals were that they are allowed to keep any jutsu secret as long as a clanless Leaf ninja still knows it too and that access to the Gokētsu vault is reciprocal.
@Sir Stompy
Other than the stuff already mentioned above, I want to remind you that the silk trade is also a deal with another Leaf Clan. We can lower our profits, but we should not unilaterally lower theirs. But that can be handled of course.
To be frank, if Akane used her new skills suboptimally just because they were new then that's kind of on her. The players can only be blamed if the invested XP meant other skills were so low that that made the difference.
What are CATEARS seals and why did we research them?
What are CAPS seals and why did we want to research them?
What is ultimately the rough consensus on attempting to gain empowerment and boons from Jashin in exchange for dedicating kills to him, said kills being people Hazō either thinks are expedient to kill to improve the lives of others (like bandits) or thinks will be killed anyway (anyone awaiting the death penalty or otherwise being on Asuma's kill list)?
Comments on the current plans:
@RandomOTP
If we actually do want to dedicate any kills at all to Jashin then Noburi might well be the wrongest person to take among all the Gokētsu.
I think taking over Sasha's sheet only makes sense after she graduates.
You have the Noburi lootbox section twice. Removing it once will free up word count.
@ProperAttorney
As above, I don't think we can take full control of her sheet before she graduates. And until then it doesn't seem worth the effort.
@FaintlySorcerous
How do we explain our blatant lies towards her? Just accept that she'll think that Hazō is kind of shitty from now on?
I think we should be open to Yuno's honest input. Allow her to try and convince us of her viewpoint as much as she wants.
Maybe change it to "Hazo held one relevant secret back during the war". I mean we do have other secrets we held back. Beyond even FOOM.
We do not have enough jutsu for a one-to-one exchange to be even remotely feasible, so this would pretty much decimate our sealing advantage. Remember that the majority of our jutsu are either Pangolin or Leaf. I also think that it's fair if compensation isn't to all of KEI, but more tailored towards the adopted ninja and their personal Clanless teachers and mentors. My own proposals were that they are allowed to keep any jutsu secret as long as a clanless Leaf ninja still knows it too and that access to the Gokētsu vault is reciprocal.
@Sir Stompy
Other than the stuff already mentioned above, I want to remind you that the silk trade is also a deal with another Leaf Clan. We can lower our profits, but we should not unilaterally lower theirs. But that can be handled of course.
To be frank, if Akane used her new skills suboptimally just because they were new then that's kind of on her. The players can only be blamed if the invested XP meant other skills were so low that that made the difference.
It is trading with a deity. There are pros and cons to it. It also doesn't mean agreeing with Jashin on anything, let alone everything. Nor does it mean accepting Jashin or his clergy as our captain the way we accepted Asuma.
- Location
- Texas
An ARS that can be activated with chakra adhesion. Mechanically, it means we can use seals without taking an action/supplemental action, and that we can use seals reflexively (when we get attacked) so long as they are already in our hands/feet.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Chakra adhesion triggered external action relay seal, use explained in the post above
Chakra anti penetration seal I think. Point was to block chakra adhesion once, so we could stack them and Rocket Boots for more uses
She had 30 levels in Phoenix Rebirth and that's pretty much it. 232.5 XP due to half costing. That's like, 4 levels of Athletics. Not bad or anything but nothing game changing. PR gave her better chances FMPOV especially fighting lightning/fire ninjutsu users, which is seemingly what got her.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
You'll note that my action plan excludes dedicating the kills to Jashin. It just has Hazou going on the mission.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean...you can try, but the Wakahisa have not done it or commissioned it done in the entire history of their clan.