The Second Reconstruction-A Post-Civil War Kaiserreich USA Quest
- Thread starter Jeeshadow
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So for anyone still deciding on the Viablity of the Entente: I actually just had a conversation with Zim (a Britian Dev) about the chances of Entente invasion of Britian and he said it's far from impossible if they get Ireleand on side, which is actually possible. Currently that is done by decison in the mod but will be revamped in the future. So…basically it all comes down to what our Autocrat, Jee, decides but if we go off of the actual logic of KR Geopolitics, then yes, a invasion can be possible.
MaironHWH
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[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.
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On that note:
The United States needs a sphere of influence and alliances. Last war, we went half in by playing Enetente Allied Neutral and we were utterly screwed by a vindictive Germany. Now we are in a situation where we will be facing both major power blocs in Europe in a proxy war. The Germans we know are hostile, the Internationale are sending people to kill us, and if we are to win this war, we will have to kill a great many of their fraternal comrades. I see absolutely no reason they would be any kinder to us than the Germans in the event of their victory. Thus, for the future security of the United States, it is imperative that we do everything within our power to build our sphere and to create as many freindly governments as possible. The Entente is the quickest way to this end.
[X] The US would not allow its sovereignty to be trampled on nor be a beggar power, it would win the war and defend its overseas territories on its own.
While I agree with your point, I do not like the counter-offer for reasons previously stated: PR and optics, and the national morale of having the Federals invite the British into New England to kill Americans. After reading the follow-on discussion, I also do not want us to end a bloody Civil War and immediately entangle our country in a World War, especially not as a junior-most partner of the King of England.
Agreeing to the peacekeeper deal is quite fine and sensible to me, but I will take muscular nationalism over this maximalist intervention.
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I would like to point out that we simply agreed to help them retake the isles, but never an exact timeframe for it. We can rest and recover, it's really not an issue.
edit: and honestly, with how powerful the US is, I wouldn't be surprised if we usurped the Entente. Also, what optics? Both the American Union and CSA have brought in foreigners by the thousands. They don't have the moral high ground by any means.
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And as I said earlier: what matters is that we win said civil war in the first place. The defections they can gain will have a cap, and they have to be rapidly approaching said cap. Thus the Military gains we can get from their intervention out weigh any damage they may do.
And who said we had to be a junior partner. They need us, not the other way round and they know it. Once we get back on our feet, equal partnership is the very least we can expect, if not superior partnership.
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[X] Recognizing that the Federals needed serious assistance, the Cabinet had accepted the offer and the agreement would be signed by Olson and Hull.
[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.
I very reluctantly place the counteroffer second for the sake of not alienating the people who will be occupying a big chunk of our war industry.
This is nonsense, there would be maybe 2 years of wiggle room at most which is not much in the scheme of post-war reconstruction. Promising to aid in retaking Britain is promising to retake Britain, you are not going to rules lawyer your way out of it by saying "oh I meant a decade later" when King is wondering where the American Armies are as they prepare to land in the Highlands or what have you.
[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.
I very reluctantly place the counteroffer second for the sake of not alienating the people who will be occupying a big chunk of our war industry.
This is nonsense, there would be maybe 2 years of wiggle room at most which is not much in the scheme of post-war reconstruction. Promising to aid in retaking Britain is promising to retake Britain, you are not going to rules lawyer your way out of it by saying "oh I meant a decade later" when King is wondering where the American Armies are as they prepare to land in the Highlands or what have you.
Which is why I think it's important for us to keep our image spotless and stay on that moral high ground. Else, if everyone's doing it, then it's normalized and our enemies will have an easier time equivocating their causes to ours. Don't give them free ammo, basically.
Countries after a civil war aren't necessarily powerful. We'll be in a long reconstruction, and the fallout is this thing will be devastating for generations to come. Dominating the Entente isn't a foregone conclusion.
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Nonsense? Where, might I ask, do you have the timetable for our invasion? What you're spouting is pure speculation, which is worth nothing, quite frankly.
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The part where either the Syndicalists are victorious in Europe in which case invasion becomes practically impossible and it would be necessary to invade before then, or the part where the Germans are winning and will invade Britain first if we don't. There is a narrow window of time where this is possible and it would be an obvious betrayal of the promise if we simply chose not to participate, we do not get to have the cake and eat it too.
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And you can somehow predict the exact time the second weltkrieg will happen? I'd like to point out that it's entirely up to Jeeshadow how things will go down. We might see the war happen in a couple months, or perhaps in 10 years. Again, you're speculating.
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Everything we do in this quest is speculation, mine are rooted in reason and historical precedent, your proposal fundamentally hinges on being able to control and decide when an attempted invasion of Britain happens on our terms, and that is far beyond what ought to be considered planning.
Yeah, but I don't think that's very likely. We're banking on us ending and recovering from the civil war fast enough that we'll be any shape to launch an invasion before the 50s, and on Ireland joining the Entente that is explicitly hostile to UoB. That'd risk provoking a British invasion because the UoB isn't dumb. They'd realize Ireland would be used for an invasion. That's in the game but feels about as likely as Germany going democratic in the base game. Ireland has literally no reason to welcome back the British exiles. The UK was literally fighting the Irish Revolt/Revolution to kill the Irish Republic a couple years before the British Revolution. The Royal Navy shelled Dublin and killed thousands.
This is silly. The Entente isn't a power we need on our side. It's a weak faction that needs us on its side. We aren't passing up a golden opportunity. We're refusing to finance our desperate acquittance's new crypto-currency scheme to strike it rich. He just needs some start up money from us to get it off the ground. It'll totally work this time, he swears by it. Britain's down and out. It's got nothing. Canada doesn't even like the royalist exiles because they're trampling over British style democracy and treating white Canadians like uppity colonials.
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And yours hinges on us winning The civil war. My logic is born out of numbers and reason as well, so how does it make mine weaker than yours? You don't have historical precedent either, so I don't know what you're talking about when it comes to that. Also, fission? The Entente being weak is entirely based on you saying it's weak. As for the British exiles, you do know that the conservatives in Canada support the royals, right? If Canada hated them as much as you say. they'd already be gone. Personal biases are a hell of a drug.
By WoG, we're winning this civil war. The only question is the how and the when. We don't need the King of England to intervene on our side to win this thing.
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At the cost of us extending the war much longer, and making it much bloodier. Quite simply, the faster we can end this war on American soil, the better off we'll be.
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don't remember that part of KR lore, but I don't think it's particularly unlikely considering what a nation willing to send thousands of men and many tons of material to vanquish a nation half way across the world for the sake of Global Syndicalism would do with a non syndicalist nation who is right next to them (in addition to a claim on Northern Ireland they can press). I don't think it's the most unlikely thing in the world for them to decide that a Windsor Restoration with the general promise of being left alone afterwards would be better compared to an aggressive Syndie neighbor.Yeah, but I don't think that's very likely. We're banking on us ending and recovering from the civil war fast enough that we'll be any shape to launch an invasion before the 50s, and on Ireland joining the Entente that is explicitly hostile to UoB. That'd risk provoking a British invasion because the UoB isn't dumb. They'd realize Ireland would be used for an invasion. That's in the game but feels about as likely as Germany going democratic in the base game. Ireland has literally no reason to welcome back the British exiles. The UK was literally fighting the Irish Revolt/Revolution to kill the Irish Republic a couple years before the British Revolution. The Royal Navy shelled Dublin and killed thousands.
This is silly. The Entente isn't a power we need on our side. It's a weak faction that needs us on its side. We aren't passing up a golden opportunity. We're refusing to finance our desperate acquittance's new crypto-currency scheme to strike it rich. He just needs some start up money from us to get it off the ground. It'll totally work this time, he swears by it. Britain's down and out. It's got nothing. Canada doesn't even like the royalist exiles because they're trampling over British style democracy and treating white Canadians like uppity colonials.
It's more along the lines of if my relative wanted me to pay him this money after he helped me fix the car which just got wrecked. I'm going to take the help, because I need my car back first and foremost.
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Yeah, the Irish aren't at all happy with the syndicalists right next to them, and we can certainly leverage Irish-American ties into our favor.
Right, so now we're shifting from 'we can't win without the Brits' to 'we can't win as quickly without the Brits.'
I can just as easily see an intervention leading to a longer war when the British march into New England. If I'm a clever Reed or Long, I'll have papers all over the country opening with this headline and killing our image as the legitimate government:
"OLSON SELLS OUT! THE BRITISH ARE COMING!"
Echoing, of course, Paul Revere's ride through Boston.
MaironHWH
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not to embroil myself in the argument but in the eyes of Ireland i cant imagine them thinking a restored Windsor is less likely to press for Ulster than Syndicalist Britain, even ignoring the absolute antipathy for the Windsors present in Irish Political Elite at current time
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And we could use propaganda against both the CSA and AUS in much the same way. Hell, we'd have a much better advantage against the AUS, what with our fight with the Germans in WW1 still being fresh. The Canadians aren't weak, they'd be able to deploy at minimum a hundred thousand to help us. You seem to think that we couldn't use the help, and I'll call you out right now on that bullshit american machismo.