Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

acidshill · May 29, 2023

eaglejarl said:
Hazō smiled in return, recognizing and allowing the dodge. "I see," she said, nodding gravely. "Ten thousand, hm?"

Is Hazō talking to himself? Is this entire conversation taking place in Hazō's mind?

eaglejarl said:
"My Lady, I pray you will grant me the smallest touch of your delicate hand," Hazō began instantly. "The grace from such slender yet powerful fingers would raise the fortunes of my clan for a thousand years. I have seen the speed and perfection of your handseals, those luscious digits dancing effortlessly through the most complex—"

Hazō is always ready to simp at a moment's notice. Do not call his bluff.

_The_Bomb · May 29, 2023

eaglejarl said:
Yup, he did. We'll figure out the rolls later.

Just following up, thanks. Have the rolls or the seal difficulty been decided yet?

eaglejarl · May 29, 2023

faflec said:
Hazou should really stop using Shadow Clones in conversation.

acidshill said:
Is Hazō talking to himself? Is this entire conversation taking place in Hazō's mind?

Should have said Hinata. Fixed, thanks.

Sir Stompy said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped are we still waiting for results from Sealing rolls for Chapter 595?

_The_Bomb said:
Just following up, thanks. Have the rolls or the seal difficulty been decided yet?

Not done yet, sorry.

FaintlySorcerous · May 29, 2023

eaglejarl said:
"Good afternoon, Hazō," Shino said. "It is a pleasure to see you. Why? Because you stated this was about our joint venture on telescopes." He paused, then smiled slightly. "And also because you are enjoyable to talk to even when business is not at play."

"Nice save," Hazō said, offering up a reproving stare. "Anyway, yes. I have the first set of lenses for you."

Aaay, ally get. Maybe not a friend, yet, but we're friendly and our interests are mutually-aligned. Good stuff.

eaglejarl said:
He opened up the elegant wooden box he had carried in with him, revealing a custom-built interior lined in crushed velvet. Six lenses of varying size were carefully snuggled into the protective fabric.

Shino lifted out the largest of the lenses, one that was a full handspan across. He held it up to the warm afternoon light that drifted through the window and turned it this way and that, looking for imperfections or distortions. There were none. He set it back in and examined the other lenses, which ranged in size down to half an inch.

@eaglejarl, AFAIK we have observed one set of lenses: those in the telescope. Are these (effectively) just that lens, scaled up/down? Or are they unique lens designs (flatter/thicker/etc.)?

eaglejarl said:
"These are exceptional quality," he said. Hazō's ears perked up at the tone of the statement; it was as complex as a high-priced wine, carrying notes of alarm and surprise and resignation all mixed together.

"Have to admit, I was hoping for more 'delight and excitement' than whatever this is," Hazō said carefully.

"I grant such," Shino said, not sounding it. "At the same time...how long did it take you to make these lenses?"

Hazō considered that. "Maybe eight hours?"

Shino shook his head. "These would have taken Aburame craftsmen days, perhaps weeks. You have rendered us obsolete. Our contacts are valuable to you for now but it will not take long for you to acquire them for yourself, at which point the Aburame have nothing to offer."

I think it might be worth mentioning to Shino that we can only copy designs. Whether or not this is strictly true, it's another reason that the Aburame remain critical in this endeavor: we can copy their lenses, but we need their engineers to do the actual development. If we want a different telescope, we need them to come up with the shape. Telescopes are paired lenses, and Hazo just doesn't have the time in his day to fiddle around getting the combination correct.

eaglejarl said:
"If you're worried about us cutting you out, don't be," Hazō said. "Even if we could do so, I wouldn't want to. The relationship between our clans is far more valuable to me than whatever extra profit we might make."

Shino paused for several seconds as various responses flitted across his face but he ended up only saying, "I am pleased to hear that."

"Seriously," Hazō said, "the Gōketsu need relationships more than we need money. I'm not sure you entirely appreciate our situation...the Aburame are a Founding Clan. You are so deeply embedded in Leaf's traditions, markets, and clan relations that I suspect you don't even think about it. The Gōketsu are brand new. We need allies, relationships, and a presence and positive reputation in the community. Mutually beneficial commercial ventures with the other clans is a good first step in that direction."

"I see," Shino said. "That makes sense, I suppose."

More to the point, if we knifed them in the back, we'd have made an enemy. I, for one, am tired of making enemies. We have a lot of those and Asuma has explicitly instructed us to make no more. You don't piss off the Nara because there are shadows everywhere you go. You don't piss off the Aburame because there are bugs everywhere you go.

eaglejarl said:
"Good. On which subject, I'm planning to approach Hinata about a partnership in the gem market. Is there any chance you could make an introduction?"

"The gem market?" Shino asked. "Interesting."

Aight, he's cracked it. The question is what he mentions to Hinata, what he keeps private, and how he plays it.

eaglejarl said:
"Interesting," Shino said, his face giving away no trace of his thinking. "Yes, I can make the introduction."

"Cool," Hazō said. "Thank you, Shino. I really appreciate it."

"It is no trouble." He smiled very slightly. "Indeed, helping the Gōketsu establish their finances might be considered a good investment on the part of the Aburame. Why? You are an up-and-coming clan with a growing track record of offbeat but successful thinking. If you will permit me to speak freely, I note that alliance with you is an interesting balance between risk and reward."

"Risk? Why risk?"

...is Hazo genuinely surprised that there are risks in associating with us?

eaglejarl said:
"The reward side of the equation comes from your ability to generate ideas such as the Ministry, which will prove to be extremely profitable if it succeeds, and to vastly increase production on various luxury goods, and the various other novelties you produce on days that end in 'y'. The risk side is that you are unpredictable. You yourself have been imprisoned for treason not once but twice, and you take offense too easily and react disproportionately to minor slights. I do not, for example, wish the Aburame to be dragged into your war with the Hagoromo, or to be splashed with Naruto's disfavor of you."

Hopefully Naruto is coming around, and I really hope that Hazo heard 'take offense too easily' and he's going to learn that you can have dominance competitions that you win and win decisively without going thermonuclear.

eaglejarl said:
"In fairness, the first killboxing was before the Gōketsu existed," Hazō said defensively. "But I take your point. Thank you for being honest with me."

"Of course. Why? I find you to be refreshingly candid and believe that returning like for like, even if the specific points are negative, will be the best way to build a solid relationship between us personally and between our clans in general."

Sage of the Seven Paths, I love Shino.

Assuming he isn't playing us.

eaglejarl said:
Hazō chuckled. "That's for true. Honestly, the pretty dance of politics leaves me tired. I wish people would just say what they mean, you know? For example, it would make things so much easier if Ritsuo would just say 'hey, I am a terrible bigot and am looking for reasons to disapprove of you.'"

Shino's normally stoic face cracked into a grin for just a moment before resuming the Aburame mask. "Being the head of a loyal and well-established Leaf ninja clan, I would obviously never use such language to describe a fellow Leaf clan."

"Out loud, anyway?" Hazō suggested.

A brief and reduced flicker of the grin came and went on Shino's face once more. "I certainly never said that."

Nice to have felt him out a little on the topic, too. We absolutely need to de-escalate with the Hagoromo but if they come for us, we can probably rely on some level of support from the Aburame.

eaglejarl said:
Hinata set the last of the jewels back into their display case. She did not deactivate the Byakugan that she had been using to examine them. This was a slight faux pas according to Leaf norms as Hazō understood them, but he said nothing.

Hmm. I don't know that I love that, especially when we're going to be lying to her. Hopefully the blatant nature of the lie helps.

eaglejarl said:
"These gems are quite remarkable," she said.

Hazō nodded. "I'm glad you think so. Like I said, the Gōketsu are interested in positive relations with the Hyūga, and a lucrative commercial partnership sounds like a good way to get that started. Hopefully this shows that we have something to bring to the table. Combining Asuma's blessing, the Tower's market intelligence, the Hyūga's contacts, and the Gōketsu supply chain...to me that sounds like a huge win to everyone. What do you think?" He didn't bother to add the 'because you can either agree or miss out'. That part, Mari had assured him, would be understood. 'Mentioning it aloud would be crass' had been her exact phrasing.

Awesome. Question: are these cut gems? Sapphire and Inoite and whatever else we can make? I figure that the Hyuuga are into the whole gem-processing supply chain. I want in with their artisans as much as anything else. A sapphire the size of your fist is one thing, but if we can make smaller sapphire jewelry affordable for the merchant class, we can create and control an entirely new market.

Like, seriously. We might even be able to make a middle class out of this.

Oh, before we get going too hard, we should throw a big pile of gemstones at the hospital, or at least a whole bunch of money. And we should have Noburi deliver it personally as thanks for his apprenticeship, if he thinks that'd be a good move.

Can we endow the Goketsu Jiraiya operating theater? Can we be really, really consistent in our use of the word 'endow' and insist that everyone else be similarly consistent?

eaglejarl said:
"I would be very curious as to where you found them," she said, the words very carefully not a question. A question forced an answer or a clear refusal, but a mere statement provided more flexibility of response.

"These are seven of the ten thousand eyeballs I harvested from the Dragon we killed," Hazō said, not even pretending the words were true.

Hazō smiled in return, recognizing and allowing the dodge. "I see," she said, nodding gravely. "Ten thousand, hm?"

"Yes." Hazō frowned in a hammy stage player's thoughtful expression. "Perhaps closer to twelve thousand."

No rolls? Is this because she didn't contest our lie, because she's so far above us that it didn't matter, something else?

In any case, I'm proud of that lie (answers all of the questions, like 'why are these not like any gems I've seen literally anywhere else ever', while raising a bunch of other questions she can't answer independently or ask without being rude) and it's nice of her not to press on it even further.

eaglejarl said:
"Mm-hm."

"So," Hazō said, "commercial joint venture?"

She looked over at Shino, who nodded.

"The way Hazō explained it to me is that the Gōketsu are attempting to build the sort of relationships that our clans have enjoyed since the Founding," he said.

She raised an eyebrow and cocked her head slightly.

"That was my response as well. He took it quite well when I said it aloud."

Okay, but please tell me she's also politically savvy enough to have recognized that we're here at least a little bit because if we don't come to her, we've made another enemy. Given a choice between kicking off a conflict and probably taking a bit of a financial hit, we chose to take the hit. It comes with benefits, sure, but please, let everyone see this for what it is: the clear signal of a new era of pro-social interaction on the part of the Goketsu. New estate, new us. We're still weird, but it's a friendlier weird.

I would have liked to see Hazo be explicit about that. Maybe everyone will read between the lines? But being very clear with everyone that we're tired of making enemies is both good for our reputation and because it'll make its way back to Asuma.

eaglejarl said:
She nodded in thoughtful surprise. "Why are you approaching me?" she asked, looking to Hazō.

"The Hyūga are one of the most established, most powerful, and wealthiest clans in Leaf," Hazō said honestly. "I'm currying favor." He grinned, inviting her to share the audacious joke.

Wait, what joke? Aren't they exactly that?

Still, good pro tip, Ino.

eaglejarl said:
"That is most sensible," she said with a mock gravity that made his grin widen slightly. "I am delighted that you have such an appreciation for the nobility of the Hyūga clan."

"Of course," Hazō said. "So, have I curried sufficient favor to talk specifics? If not, I've got up to twelve minutes of sucking up and general sycophancy ready to go."

"Only twelve?" she asked, shaking her head sadly. "Alas, how the Hyūga have fallen in the world's estimation. Why, I remember the days when no one would dare to offer less than twenty."

"Yes, well, what can you expect from such an inexperienced novice as myself?" Hazō asked. "Virtually a barbarian. Can't be expected to know all the niceties of polite society."

"True," she said, heaving a sigh. "I do hope that the sucking-up and sycophancy contained a mixture of praise for the clan and also paeans to my personal beauty and talent?"

"Oh, very much so. I've got an entire three-minute segment on the elegance of your fingers, if you'd like to hear it?"

She raised an eyebrow in doubt. "I very much doubt that it is possible to come up with three minutes of non-repetitive peroration about fingers."

I am so damn happy right now. I mean, maybe she's playing us? But that would be a pretty convoluted plot. 'Hello, we found this big pile of money, would you like to have some of it' is a hell of an opening line when building a relationship between organizations. I expect she'll keep her options open, but on the personal front? Maybe we should marry Ino. The jokey back-and-forth means she's spent a few minutes in our presence feeling positively inclined towards us. If we can get that up to hours over the coming months/days, human biology means that she'll like us more than she did before. We're pretty likeable when we try. I expect she'll be Shino-level friendly with us in pretty short order if we put our backs into it.

eaglejarl said:
"My Lady, I pray you will grant me the smallest touch of your delicate hand," Hazō began instantly. "The grace from such slender yet powerful fingers would raise the fortunes of my clan for a thousand years. I have seen the speed and perfection of your handseals, those luscious digits dancing effortlessly through the most complex—"

"I sit corrected," she said quickly. "Shall we discuss specifics?"

Hazō grinned and mentally checked off the next item on his 'gain friends and influence' list.

Yeah, she shouldn't have stepped to us. Minato's poetry did psychic damage, but like all the psychic damage we've taken, we walked away a changed person with new and unnatural abilities.

Hopefully Ino doesn't find out.

eaglejarl said:
Author's Note: Hazō did not mention the idea of having Neji look at the Great Seal. It seemed like a bad idea to him, since it would require Neji to cross 1,000+ miles of terrain and half a dozen clan territories (or persuade a turtle to swim that far through Shark territory), only to need to marry a giant spider in order to get within a few dozen yards of a ravening of extradimensional monsters in order to look at a thing that might or might not burn his eyeballs to ash. If you really want to have Hazō do this then you can vote it in again and that will be sufficient to override Hazōpilot.

Hm. I hadn't considered that this might melt Neji. We can keep it in our back pocket for when we get Akane back, as she'd properly appreciate the Turtle scroll.

Question for the QMs: will things like the telescope endeavor and the gemstone trade now happen smoothly in the background? What work is required on the part of the playerbase (e.g., what do we need to put in plans) to keep it rolling?

_The_Bomb · May 29, 2023

eaglejarl said:
Not done yet, sorry.

The difficulty of the AB seal as well?

RandomOTP · May 29, 2023

FaintlySorcerous said:
Question for the QMs: will things like the telescope endeavor and the gemstone trade now happen smoothly in the background? What work is required on the part of the playerbase (e.g., what do we need to put in plans) to keep it rolling?

Also: does this finally cure our financial consequence?

FaintlySorcerous · May 29, 2023

_The_Bomb said:
Gather Mari/Kei/Snowflake/Noburi under highest OPSEC

Why Noburi? He doesn't add much.

_The_Bomb said:
The circumstances around Akane's disapperance are extremely suspicious.

I'd really rather approach this as if we're asking questions as opposed to making definitive statements. This is true for a variety of reasons; I think it'll get us better results overall compared to locking into specific ideas early.

For example, in this case, I'd say something like 'were all possibilities around TA's disappearance investigated thoroughly? doesn't seem like it'

_The_Bomb said:
Jan 6, (unknown): Attackers enter Fire and find TA's tracks

It was at least half a day (4 hrs) travel for them

Another ~1.5 hours to reach campsite

They must have been camped very close to the border.

Do we know that they entered Fire in the morning? They could have been embedded for a while with a weird path.

Again, asking questions and stating facts without drawing inferences.

_The_Bomb said:
Spies wouldn't have followed their trail.

This team was a deliberate attack squad with a prearranged mission

Again, asking questions. I'm likely going to write a similar plan but my spin on it.

_The_Bomb said:
Jan 6-7, (before sunrise): Attackers enage TA

Even with skywalkers, they should not have been able to bypass TA's security perimeter.

Again, asking questions. Including Kagome in the meeting right off the bat would be smart: he can speak to this.

_The_Bomb said:
Akane herself is not an easy target, especially since she definitely had warning

We figure she had warning based on the attack site?

_The_Bomb said:
All told, they traveled ~7 hours and must have used barely any chakra in the attack.

Why couldn't they have used chakra?

_The_Bomb said:
Given the timing, this was arranged before Akane even got her mission

Again, asking questions, or at least presenting our inferences instead of making definitive statements. Way less likely to come across crazy.

_The_Bomb said:
Akane was specifically given this mission by someone implanted in the Tower so that she would be out of the village and vulnerable to this pre-planned assassination.

Most likey suspect is Ruka, who both assigned Akane the unusual mission and didn't report it as overdue.

She was seriously softballed in her questioning and was allowed to not answer whatever she didn't like.

She needs to be properly interrogated at T&I. Ideally, mindwalked as well. Does this meet the threshold for "village security?"

We don't know she was softballed and we've already heard Asuma say that mindwalking is off the table. He's in possession of all the relevant facts - at least, we can assume he read Naruto/Shikamaru's report.

I'd like a copy of that report.

_The_Bomb said:
What do we do from here?

How much should we tell Ami?

What about Ino?

How should we approach Asuma?

Barring indebting ourselves to her, I think we should just tell Ami everything.

Again, I'd like to ask questions: 'how should we approach Asuma' has a different flavour than 'what do we do - tell Ino? Asuma?'

_The_Bomb said:
OFFSCREEN

Instruct Kagome to investigate how Akane's perimeter could have been breached.

Ñ

Weird character in here. Again, looping K in at the start seems smart.

_The_Bomb said:
EDIT: Also the Shikamaru situation

There's no Shikamaru discussion in this plan.

Lysbeth Succubus · May 29, 2023

eaglejarl said:
Chapter 597: Making Friends and Influencing People

Wait, that was an option? So many plans to update, an entire treason to forget about...

eaglejarl said:
He opened up the elegant wooden box he had carried in with him, revealing a custom-built interior lined in crushed velvet.

Nice touch.
Crushed velvet and that Clan Head's smile
Crushed velvet in that slow, Fire style
A new religion that'll bring ya to Youth's spring
Crushed velvet that we briiiiing

eaglejarl said:
Hazō's ears perked up at the tone of the statement; it was as complex as a high-priced wine, carrying notes of alarm and surprise and resignation all mixed together.

If your wine carries notes of alarm, surprise, and resignation, I advise to spit it out posthaste.

eaglejarl said:
Shino shook his head. "These would have taken Aburame craftsmen days, perhaps weeks. You have rendered us obsolete. Our contacts are valuable to you for now but it will not take long for you to acquire them for yourself, at which point the Aburame have nothing to offer."

Is it about what they have to offer? Yes, having things to offer is good, but not only can we get filthy rich together, we can both help the other get filthier rich through reaching farther and in more directions by having two Leaf voting clans' resources and reputations. Also, friends. Friends!

eaglejarl said:
Both halves of that compound statement were true; they had no relationship to one another, but hopefully Shino would draw the desired incorrect inference.

Hazō: *has no political training, can't lie to save his life*
Also Hazō: hey, I can probably fool a Clan Head who's been trained in politics all his life, can't I?

eaglejarl said:
Hazō, Deceit (deceive Shino without quite lying): 24 + 9 (dice!) = 33
Shino, Deceit (notice the ~~lie~~ deception): ? - 3 (dice) = ??

Hm.

AAIIIIIEEEE

eaglejarl said:
"Interesting," Shino said, his face giving away no trace of his thinking.

AAIIIIIEEEE

eaglejarl said:
"The reward side of the equation comes from your ability to generate ideas such as the Ministry, which will prove to be extremely profitable if it succeeds, and to vastly increase production on various luxury goods, and the various other novelties you produce on days that end in 'y'. The risk side is that you are unpredictable. You yourself have been imprisoned for treason not once but twice, and you take offense too easily and react disproportionately to minor slights. I do not, for example, wish the Aburame to be dragged into your war with the Hagoromo, or to be splashed with Naruto's disfavor of you."

Why, Hazō, sometimes it feels like your ideas and values come from somewhere else than the Elemental Nations. By the way, I was Orochimaru this whole time. Not yet paranoid enough, nephew. Out interference, innit?

eaglejarl said:
"In fairness, the first killboxing was before the Gōketsu existed," Hazō said defensively.

And not for treason. Technically. That might be worth noting. Also, everyone knows about that despite it happening with only Jiraiya and ANBU, huh?

eaglejarl said:
"Of course. Why? I find you to be refreshingly candid and believe that returning like for like, even if the specific points are negative, will be the best way to build a solid relationship between us personally and between our clans in general."

~~Translated: Shino speaks to us players in a way we'll understand despite our... let's say people-skills shortcomings~~ (just kidding)

eaglejarl said:
"These are seven of the ten thousand eyeballs I harvested from the Dragon we killed," Hazō said, not even pretending the words were true.

Hazō (Deceit) 3d100 -2d100 (not even trying): 32
Hinata (Deceit) 17d100: 17 wait, what?
Hinata was reeling. "Ten thousand?" she choked out. "Of this size and purity? I even thought I counted six, but you're right, there are seven here."
A clear invitation to up the ante, mocking his miscount? Hazō refused to be caught on the back foot.
"Closer to twelve thousand, maybe."
There! Politicking was easy as long as you were funny and everyone knew you were.
Hinata took a step back. This much could destroy the Hyūga's... well, everything. And these were reaps of war. Was Hazō declaring that he could destroy and pillage any treasure at all, no matter the size? Certainly, the Gōketsu seemed rather... unshackled by convention, and had a penchant for wide-scale destruction, if the ANBU rumours were to be believed (when your eyes can see through walls, flesh, and bone, no amount of hush-hush can prevent your clan from lip-reading confidential conversations), but still, that was excessive. Did this mean war? She had to make sure.
"Of course, it is important for each to have their place in the Leaf. Just as the younger amongst our ranks can both take or bring much to Leaf, the elder clans can be a mediating influence, or a guide through all of it. What do you think we arrange something? Our interests align."
Hinata (Diplomacy) 9d100: 405
Hazō (Diplomacy) 3d100: 63
"I... I will need to think about this. Akane's death obviously changed things, but... this is a big commitment."
Hinata nodded as he walked away, his face blank as if lost in thought. Of course. As far as he was concerned, the entire conservative bloc may as well be responsible for his first love's demise, even though a partnership with the Hyūga was, obviously, something none would refuse.
Hazō walked away, clamping down on the Iron Nerve to keep his face blank as if he weren't panicking. Akane's death did force him to reconsider his relationships, but for Hinata to offer to marry him... He needed a talk with Mari. And a drink with Sasuke. And for Kagome to check everyone's ears.

eaglejarl said:
"My Lady, I pray you will grant me the smallest touch of your delicate hand," Hazō began instantly. "The grace from such slender yet powerful fingers would raise the fortunes of my clan for a thousand years. I have seen the speed and perfection of your handseals, those luscious digits dancing effortlessly through the most complex—"

... Okay so, they will actually marry won't they

eaglejarl said:
Hazō did not mention the idea of having Neji look at the Great Seal.

A shame there is no Hyūga to simultaneously be a sealmaster and a summoner, because I don't believe Neji's observations would be useful, if the Byakugan even turns out to give anything good. I also want to be on record as saying that the person whose eyes see everything should not be brought close to the pack of omnicidal monstrosities, at least two of which have displayed sight-based cognitohazardous properties, and that's if they're not sight-based reality warping properties.

FaintlySorcerous · May 29, 2023

RandomOTP said:
Also: does this finally cure our financial consequence?

I can't imagine it does, because we haven't gone to market, but once we have, I expect it'll get there pretty fast.

What's the opposite of a consequence?

Shrooms · May 29, 2023

[X] Action Plan: It's Time to Talk About Akane

RandomOTP · May 29, 2023

FaintlySorcerous said:
I can't imagine it does, because we haven't gone to market, but once we have, I expect it'll get there pretty fast.

What's the opposite of a consequence?

A taggable Aspect? "First Clan with ES50" sounds accurate.

Inferno Vulpix · May 29, 2023

Lysbeth Succubus said:
Hazō: *has no political training, can't lie to save his life*
Also Hazō: hey, I can probably fool a Clan Head who's been trained in politics all his life, can't I?

Always good to keep in mind: a stat in the 20's is not bad. A stat in the 20's is the pinnacle stat of a low-tier superhuman. It represents a large amount of active training that shines through in the character's skillset and competence in that area of expertise.

Hazou is, by characterization, an honest person: he doesn't often use his Deceit stat (narratively, the tricks and tools of deception that he's learned).
Hazou's Deceit is substantially lower than his combat or research stats: he is far more impressive as a sealmaster and even as a combatant than as a liar.
Hazou routinely interacts with Jounin+ social specs: he frequently loses battles of Deceit against foes who are far more skilled than him.

But despite that, Hazou is a good liar. Like, objectively good. He's received dedicated training in the art of lying, and he's gotten quite good at it. He only looks bad at lying because "quite good" means you lose every time against someone with "godlike" skill at detecting lies.

It's important to keep this in mind because our perceptions and behaviour shape the narrative and the narrative in turn shapes our perceptions. The idea that Hazou is bad at lying (or, more broadly, that you need stats in the 30's or 40's to achieve "baseline ordinary human competence") can wrongfully affect not only our expectations of what Hazou can accomplish but the narrative's descriptions of his capability. I do not want Hazou to start being depicted as a bad liar, so I take efforts to contextualize his skill level and remind myself of his true objective capabilities, no matter how quickly we fold against someone like Asuma with sky-high socials.

eaglejarl · May 29, 2023

FaintlySorcerous said:
No rolls? Is this because she didn't contest our lie, because she's so far above us that it didn't matter, something else?

It's because it wasn't a lie. You were blatantly advertising the fact that it was untrue and that you were simply refusing to answer the question. That's as per the plan.

FaintlySorcerous said:
I would have liked to see Hazo be explicit about that. Maybe everyone will read between the lines? But being very clear with everyone that we're tired of making enemies is both good for our reputation and because it'll make its way back to Asuma.

The plan specified that it should stay as subtext.

FaintlySorcerous said:
Wait, what joke? Aren't they exactly that?

The joke was the blatancy of saying "I'm currying favor".

Lysbeth Succubus said:
Crushed velvet and that Clan Head's smile
Crushed velvet in that slow, Fire style
A new religion that'll bring ya to Youth's spring
Crushed velvet that we briiiiing

Very cool. I love that song -- all kinds of positive memories associated with it. <3

Lysbeth Succubus said:
If your wine carries notes of alarm, surprise, and resignation, I advise to spit it out posthaste.

EJ: Ooh, that's funny. Should I award a 'QM laughed' XP? I didn't *literally* lol but it was pretty damn funny...

Lysbeth Succubus said:
Hinata (Diplomacy) 9d100: 405
Hazō (Diplomacy) 3d100: 63

EJ: *takes psychic damage from reminder of Augjev* No XP for you!

Lysbeth Succubus · May 29, 2023

Inferno Vulpix said:
Always good to keep in mind: a stat in the 20's is not bad. A stat in the 20's is the pinnacle stat of a low-tier superhuman. It represents a large amount of active training that shines through in the character's skillset and competence in that area of expertise.

Hazou is, by characterization, an honest person: he doesn't often use his Deceit stat (narratively, the tricks and tools of deception that he's learned).

Hazou's Deceit is substantially lower than his combat or research stats: he is far more impressive as a sealmaster and even as a combatant than as a liar.

Hazou routinely interacts with Jounin+ social specs: he frequently loses battles of Deceit against foes who are far more skilled than him.

But despite that, Hazou is a good liar. Like, objectively good. He's received dedicated training in the art of lying, and he's gotten quite good at it. He only looks bad at lying because "quite good" means you lose every time against someone with "godlike" skill at detecting lies.

It's important to keep this in mind because our perceptions and behaviour shape the narrative and the narrative in turn shapes our perceptions. The idea that Hazou is bad at lying (or, more broadly, that you need stats in the 30's or 40's to achieve "baseline ordinary human competence") can wrongfully affect not only our expectations of what Hazou can accomplish but the narrative's descriptions of his capability. I do not want Hazou to start being depicted as a bad liar, so I take efforts to contextualize his skill level and remind myself of his true objective capabilities, no matter how quickly we fold against someone like Asuma with sky-high socials.

Yes, Hazō can lie when it's not to save his life

More seriously, civilians with resources could still lie laps around us, right? Mayor Emiya and the Vermilion Sigh/telescope merchant, along with a few different heads of Chivalrous Organisations

Sir Stompy · May 29, 2023

Lysbeth Succubus said:
Yes, Hazō can lie when it's not to save his life
More seriously, civilians with resources could still lie laps around us, right? Mayor Emiya and the Vermilion Sigh/telescope merchant, along with a few different heads of Chivalrous Organisations

The system doesn't really model civilian accumulation of XP. So I'm unsure if this is true. I think that they just mostly don't interact with the mechanics, but narratively might be able to keep up with some ninja.

Unless the QMs want to weigh in and say that (for example) civilians do accumulate XP, just at a reduced rate, and they can't buy any skill that needs chakra.

Inferno Vulpix · May 29, 2023

Lysbeth Succubus said:
Yes, Hazō can lie when it's not to save his life
More seriously, civilians with resources could still lie laps around us, right? Mayor Emiya and the Vermilion Sigh/telescope merchant, along with a few different heads of Chivalrous Organisations

Indeed, social stats aren't particularly boosted by ninja magics so the heights of the stat are available to sufficiently-trained civilians as well as ninja. I'm... not sure which of those people are hovering around 30-40 and which, if any, are up in the 50+ zone, so while we might still lose a social contest against a talented civilian with proper tutoring and a monofocus on social stats, I'm not sure we'd lose it by much.

Oneiros · May 29, 2023

@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien

SC XP for ch 597

Hazō: 3 * 1.8 = 5.4XP
Kei: 3 * 1.7 = 5.1XP

MrRobot · May 29, 2023

Well Hazõ have to cope time to dust off his lists again.

FaintlySorcerous · May 29, 2023

eaglejarl said:
It's because it wasn't a lie. You were blatantly advertising the fact that it was untrue and that you were simply refusing to answer the question. That's as per the plan.

Excellent - the person who wrote that section of the plan must be a handsome genius.

eaglejarl said:
The plan specified that it should stay as subtext.

Nuts - the person who wrote that section of the plan must be a hideous moron.

On the positive side, we'll get to have more conversations with Hinata where we can say the quiet part out loud. And maybe spark a revolution in Konoha politics where people say what they mean in conversations by implying that's part of the Goketsu secret sauce.

Which it is. There's just no sauce on this dish.

Sir Stompy · May 29, 2023

_The_Bomb said:
Even with skywalkers, they should not have been able to bypass TA's security perimeter

This doesn't ring true to me. If they roll Awareness vs. Akane's Trapmaking (with time ladder assistance) a 50 could easily beat that. That's sufficient to breach her perimeter. Doesn't seem necessary to say this.

_The_Bomb said:
Akane herself is not an easy target, especially since she definitely had warning

Why do you think she definitely had warning? When Canvass was smelling the attack site. She noted that one member of the enemy squad approached Team Akane via stealth and cased the camp. Then gathered their teammates for the attack. That says to me that the team lost their Awareness vs Stealth roll and got ambushed.

_The_Bomb said:
All told, they traveled ~7 hours and must have used barely any chakra in the attack

Why do you think this?

_The_Bomb said:
Given the timing, this was arranged before Akane even got her mission

Overconfident statement IMO. It is certainly suspicious and this is a possibility. But there are other possibilities.

_The_Bomb said:
Are we ready to open her will?

Did this not happen? We had a funeral. Hazou as far as I know is acknowledging she's dead.

_The_Bomb · May 29, 2023

_The_Bomb said:
eaglejarl said:

"It does, doesn't it? Anyway, that was a great lead-in to asking him about this idea I had for research missions, where the Tower pays a sealmaster or jutsu creator to create a specific thing." He grimaced. "Turns out, that's pretty much how it works now. Sure, people can also hire it privately but the Tower does it using the standard mission framework."

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

@eaglejarl has this policy changed since we asked Jiraiya about this?

eaglejarl said:

"Anyway, that was just my first thought. Other things that might be good would be using MEW to make stone buildings or walls, selling seals—storage scrolls and explosives are useful for lots of things, and I have some ideas about making civilian-usable versions. We could take commissions to research seals that people want, or—"

"Let me stop you right there," Jiraiya said. "Those are all great ideas and would make us a fortune if we could do them. They would also be a lot easier and safer than taking ninja missions. So, ask yourself: Why hasn't some other ninja with the same or equivalent jutsu done those things already? For that matter, why are there ninja and ninja missions at all? Why isn't everyone who knows how to use chakra sitting at home in the lap of luxury?"

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Bumbing this @eaglejarl

RandomOTP · May 29, 2023

Lysbeth Succubus said:
Yes, Hazō can lie when it's not to save his life
More seriously, civilians with resources could still lie laps around us, right? Mayor Emiya and the Vermilion Sigh/telescope merchant, along with a few different heads of Chivalrous Organisations

Eeeh. Maybe, maybe not. As per the rules doc, civilians can invest in any stat that doesn't require chakra to use.

However XP is also earned through challenging one's self, and ninja basically spend every moment they have training. I doubt civilians have a similar amount of free time. I suspect this would be reflected by the average civilian having a lower natural XP rate than the average ninja.

FaintlySorcerous said:
Excellent - the person who wrote that section of the plan must be a handsome genius.

Nuts - the person who wrote that section of the plan must be a hideous moron.

On the positive side, we'll get to have more conversations with Hinata where we can say the quiet part out loud. And maybe spark a revolution in Konoha politics where people say what they mean in conversations by implying that's part of the Goketsu secret sauce.

Which it is. There's just no sauce on this dish.

It was a good plan that led to good things, so you should be proud.

Personally, I'm hoping that we get the chance, one day, to thank Hinata for her help saving Kei from Orochimaru's Table. She has a big deposit in the ROTP bank of goodwill for that).

This positive interaction will lead to a road where that happens ^.^

ContextBot · May 29, 2023

FaintlySorcerous said:
Okay, but please tell me she's also politically savvy enough to have recognized that we're here at least a little bit because if we don't come to her, we've made another enemy.

We're probably annoying the Minami clan, Jiraiya and them wanted to buy up their stuff.

At some point we're probably going to get some comment about this, but it shouldn't be too relevant. Hopefully.

FaintlySorcerous · May 29, 2023

ContextBot said:
We're probably annoying the Minami clan, Jiraiya and them wanted to buy up their stuff.

At some point we're probably going to get some comment about this, but it shouldn't be too relevant. Hopefully.

Hopefully we keep up with Mama Minami. Maybe a big pile of sapphires can broker the peace.

CommunismWillWin · May 29, 2023

_The_Bomb said:
Currently a WIP. I'll likely restructure it to avoid reiterating the timeline step-by-step in the final version, for word count if nothing else. Until then, thoughts?

EDIT: Also to add the Shikamaru situation

TL;DR Two scene plan where we discuss the Akane leak and take the Sealing Exam.

[X] Action Plan: It's Time to Talk About Akane

Gather Mari/Kei/Snowflake/Noburi under highest OPSEC

The circumstances around Akane's disapperance are extremely suspicious.

Go over the timeline

Jan 5, noon: Akane is assigned mission

Already, things are odd.

Team Akane only formed a month earlier.

This is very early for this type of mission.

Jan 6, morning: TA leave Leaf

Jan 6, (unknown): Attackers enter Fire and find TA's tracks

It was at least half a day (4 hrs) travel for them

Another ~1.5 hours to reach campsite

They must have been camped very close to the border.

Spies wouldn't have followed their trail.

This team was a deliberate attack squad with a prearranged mission

Jan 6-7, (before sunrise): Attackers enage TA

Even with skywalkers, they should not have been able to bypass TA's security perimeter.

Akane herself is not an easy target, especially since she definitely had warning

Jan 6-7, (unknown): Attackers leave Fire

All told, they traveled ~7 hours and must have used barely any chakra in the attack.

They also had to be camped right on the border in advance.

Given the timing, this was arranged before Akane even got her mission

Akane was specifically given this mission by someone implanted in the Tower so that she would be out of the village and vulnerable to this pre-planned assassination.

Most likey suspect is Ruka, who both assigned Akane the unusual mission and didn't report it as overdue.

She was seriously softballed in her questioning and was allowed to not answer whatever she didn't like.

She needs to be properly interrogated at T&I. Ideally, mindwalked as well. Does this meet the threshold for "village security?"

What do we do from here?

How much should we tell Ami?

What about Ino?

How should we approach Asuma?

Are we ready to open her will?

OFFSCREEN

Instruct Kagome to investigate how Akane's perimeter could have been breached.

Ñ

Take Sealing Exam

I am not sure if Plan "The Hokage Had Our Girlfriend Killed And We Need To Investigate It" is a good idea at our current level. Maybe after we resurrect Nagato we can safely figure out what really happened.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

In doubt there's always the Sun!