- Location
- Fifth Dimension
[X] TRAINING HAZOU: EARTHSHAPING 50
[X] Fuck It
Voting it for now to balance out that other vote.
[X] Fuck It
Voting it for now to balance out that other vote.
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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You literally spell it out here. Oro gets more of what he wants because he's stronger. If we have similar levels of strength we can get more things we want. This isn't complicated
Don't know what the object-level debate here is, but I'll just point out that Orochimaru is a hermit who apparently only cares about his research and pretty much everyone hates him. His approach is not really suitable for us, if we want to do things that require us to convince other people of things or not hate us or do things we want them to do other than out of fear.
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
OK but Jiraiya did the same. He just threatened everyone into compliance.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We can be like Jiraiya instead.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You don't have to be like Orochimaru to benefit from being strong the way Oro does. Tsunade and Jiraiya get that same level of deference/respect when it comes to getting what they wanted. Even Hiruzen had to throw hands occasionally and he was possibly the best diplomat ever. This is a setting that runs on getting respect from being strong as fuck. And like, you can't just Socials people like Hiashi into not sucking or Jiraiya and Hiruzen would've just done that. It's not mind control, it takes serious elbow grease to change things, and sometimes you gotta step in and say I will not let you treat people this way. If they don't want to listen all you can back that up with is your own power. This is essentially what Tsunade did to secure Noburi's wedding, for example.
Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
- Location
- Adrift between sanity and madness
- Pronouns
- Shrug
I want more relative power for Hazou not for the purpose snapping power structures over his knee (although that's a pretty hefty bonus), but to solve an issue that has been persistent since Hazou was in the mist academy.
Attempts to fix the world will be met with the world attempting to murder us and itself out of sheer spite. Breaking the vials of healing potions and sawing off the arm that it just had fixed, because fuck you i don't want to get better, I want to die in agony out of sheer stubbornness.
The only way to fix this problem is to be strong enough to hold the world down, take it's knives, and force feed it it's medication. So, to the question of giving away FOOM?
Not just no, but hell no.
Attempts to fix the world will be met with the world attempting to murder us and itself out of sheer spite. Breaking the vials of healing potions and sawing off the arm that it just had fixed, because fuck you i don't want to get better, I want to die in agony out of sheer stubbornness.
The only way to fix this problem is to be strong enough to hold the world down, take it's knives, and force feed it it's medication. So, to the question of giving away FOOM?
Not just no, but hell no.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] TRAINING HAZOU: EARTHSHAPING 50
Since Hazou's apparently feeling in a poetic mood ("the purity of the heavens" and all that), he should go try and drown his grief in the depths of the earth.
Since Hazou's apparently feeling in a poetic mood ("the purity of the heavens" and all that), he should go try and drown his grief in the depths of the earth.
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
[X] N for Necromancy
Word Count: <300
@Velorien @eaglejarl @Paperclipped where would I put the description of the seals? In another post and link it?
Word Count: <300
- Spend time with Ino
- Meet with Mari
- Any deniable assets that could've done this?
- Clearly we need power more than ever, can we at least collaborate on her training
- Need to get Kagome, Noburi, and Yuno SC stat.
- Mourn Akane, how can this be prevented for future?
- Work on getting a scroll, maybe revisit Squirrel Scroll? Or Bear Scroll?
- Sanity check with Mari, Kei
- Have Asuma and other summoners bring items/foods from other nations for Canvass to cross reference with the smell of Akane's attackers
- Ask Asuma for payout of jutsu/seals ASAP. We've lost a lot. Personally and for future Dragon plans. Maybe mention SC for Yuno, Noburi, Kagome.
- Establish AKANE (Assault Kits of Advanced Ninja Equipment), free explosive and storage seals for clanless genin. Have our sealsmiths handle this.
- Prepare for Akane mourning and memorial service
- Release public statement recanting Hagoromo war, written, insincere
- Blood Tracking Clan, can we use them to locate Akane? Thoughts on using Hidan/alerting him to AMITY violation
- Loop in Ami on everything with Akane and her disappearance
- Seal Research
- Minato seals, with Kagome if possible for aid.
- Do 1 day research to see difficulty of all seals, proceed if seals are easy enough without SSA, use SCs
- Security Button Seal (Possibly have Kagome work on this as well).
- Poison Gas Seals
- Force Wall -> Force Wall Domes, Force Wall Shurikens, Force Wall Spikes, Force Wall Shields
- Flamethrower Seal
- Blood tracking Seal (have Kagome work on this as well).
- Wait for results of other Akane search missions
@Velorien @eaglejarl @Paperclipped where would I put the description of the seals? In another post and link it?
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- Location
- how about no
Do you believe Asuma would immediately crush Ruka's head like a grape if one of the Sarutobi was killed by Ruka's negligence?
Procedure keeps the peace: there is already an investigation in progress and if (most likely when, but I like to assume people are innocent until they are proven guilty) Ruka is found guilty, then she will be punished.
Civil War means that people who could have been working with us have instead been driven to arms due to our intolerable actions. It would be a net loss of manpower and leave the survivors vulnerable to opportunistic third parties.
Peace enforced at the point of a sword lasts until one's sword arm drops. People will act like Ruka did whenever they think they can get away with it if they do not adhere to and live by the ideals of Uplift. Our people, whoever we consider ours not just FOOMers, will suffer from thousands of proverbial cuts that we will have no way of proving were done maliciously yet still hamstring our goals.
Oro is a social pariah bully.
I don't want Hazou to become a social pariah bully.
Jiraiya assumed power in tumultuous times following the death of his mentor and the abduction of Naruto. Unless there is a huge power vacuum we will not have the same opportunity as he did, nor the years of loyal service to assuage the fears of our contemporaries that we aren't assuming power for personal reasons but for the good of Leaf.
If Uplift is to go beyond the simple humoring of yet another S ranker to be ignored whenever said S ranker is not around, we need to enact plans that go beyond personal force projection.
While we cannot social people into not sucking, what we can do is prove that there is a better way of life through Uplift by implementing policies. The fruits of those policies will be our irrefutable proof that our ideas are better and will win over reasonable, rational people. We do not need to convince the hard outliers, but the moderate calculating majority to ensure our ideals spread and persist after Hazou's inevitable death.
Yagura tried this.
Hashirama tried this.
Pain tried this.
Mandated cures do not fix broad social problems. The world is not some monolithic malevolent entity, but collections of various people trying their best to survive. Part of that survival instinct involves being distrustful of strangers and their unproven ways of life. By making the world a more equitable place we prove to the world that there can be a better, safer, freer way to live.
That's how we get the people who can change their minds to voluntarily take their medicine: by taking a swig of the medicine in front of them to prove it is not poisonous before freely offering it to them.
Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
- Location
- Adrift between sanity and madness
- Pronouns
- Shrug
My model of the EN as a whole is a world that would kill itself rather getting better out of sheer spite. You seemingly don't share this view @Dictator4Hire. Therefore I don't think there's any productive discussion to be had between us. Do you?
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So let's assume that you're completely right. The implied threat of violence is not just morally wrong but the least effective way to achieve our goals. We still shouldn't give up FOOM because with it we won't just be stronger than everyone we will also have better socials than everyone else. With our giant pile of XP we can convince people that uplift is the best course of action.
- Location
- how about no
The Elemental Nations have a severe affliction of the Tragedy of the Commons causing the world as a whole to appear to be suicidal (IIRC, this has been confirmed by Kei in game). The EN for the first time may have a way to address this issue without us in the form of AMITY, but that is far from guaranteed.
I think you are unintentionally doing yourself a disservice by interacting with a world, any world, with all of its unique cultures, peoples, places, and past events, as a singular entity.
We cannot save everyone, but I hope we can save the majority of people who secretly or even unknowingly wish for a better way of life but do not have the means or creativity themselves to enact such changes.
As long as people are willing to reexamine their biases and question their assumptions while respecting each other's initial positions productive discussions will naturally follow.
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
[X] Action Plan: Save The Genin, Save The World
Word count: 300 words?
The pitch:
Word count: 300 words?
- Timeline: <4 days
- Get approvals to use resources/give stuff out as needed (Asuma to hand out seals, etc). Don't snub anyone.
- Mark all seals "For Akane Gōketsu"
- Give Genin Tools to Survive
- Offer Gōketsu sealsmiths a salary to pump out explosive & storage seals.
- Take two days and churn out ~1400 high grade goo bombs
- Give every Leaf ninja 1 goo bomb, 1 explosive tag and 1 storage seal before the week is out.
- Get more Koi
- Ask Mari to start turning the Koi caretakers.
- If practical, hire a mission to capture wild Koi for testing.
- Contact the Wakahisa and ask about desired compensation for expanding the Koi pools.
- Get Asuma to help Uplift Leaf with a formal proposal
- Humanity is dying. We can change that.
- (with Kei permission) The Pangolins have a jutsu that could save a lot of our genin. Asuma should negotiate to get access for Leaf.
- Sound out Summons for any jutsu Leaf could buy. Summon them to teach Sasuke and have Sasuke teach others.
- A genin with seals is more survivable than one without. Arm them now.
- Make a career track for people to stay home and make weapons so our ninja are always properly equipped.
- Food is plentiful on the 7th path. Leaf should be buying it there and using it to feed our people and gain soft power over other nations.
- The Motoyoshi fertility jutsu is a potential game changer. A TH should be assigned to improve it for large scale use if improvement is possible.
- Leaf should have a new contest focused on increasing genin suitability.
- We should section off land with MARI and test the feasibility of eliminating chakra beasts permanently in an area.
- Research Directional Explosives.
The pitch:
- Humanity is dying.
- Killing chakra beasts is literally most genin's day job.
- If we can make the genin vs chakra beast fight more one sided in favor of genin then they can clear more land faster and many less civilians get their faces chewed off. Also, they die less and can evolve into chunin.
- If we can change things enough that the thinker clans stop projecting that, it will probably make people somewhat less desperate and make room for things to grow. Hope is a powerful thing.
- Currently genin are dying around 2.5 per week. We can change that.
- Ninja don't think of civilians as people. But they do think of genin as people.
- They don't care about our assistance of civilians. It's a character quirk, not a positive trait.
- The vast majority of ninja in Leaf are genin. Make their lives significantly better and you will enjoy massive popular support.
- Leaf loyalists (such as Asuma and Naruto) mostly judge us by how useful we are to keep leaf ninja alive. Saving genin lives will raise our stock in their eyes considerably and give us MUCH more leeway for what they see as our eccentricities.
- You require more Chakra!
- We are currently paying for a lot of chakra. Having a larger supply under our control will directly benefit our clan's bottom line.
- I believe MARI is a chakra intensive jutsu. We can wall WAY more if we can increase the chakra supply.
- Both expanding Koi supply and the number of living genin make chakra cheaper for us.
- Cheap food is good.
- Being a good source of cheap food could help Leaf gain an upper hand in the age of AMITY. It both empowers Leaf and results in less starving people.
- People are less murdery if they aren't worried about starving to death.
- Will probably lead to more humans not starving to death, helping with the "humanity is dying" thing.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Planmakers in general,
While we're working on the dragons, we should assign Kagome to work on the following: 1, a seal to track people (by blood or other means) irrespective of the chakra dispersion problem and 2, a seal to stop chakra (and other esoteric draining effect) from the pure lands.
While we're working on the dragons, we should assign Kagome to work on the following: 1, a seal to track people (by blood or other means) irrespective of the chakra dispersion problem and 2, a seal to stop chakra (and other esoteric draining effect) from the pure lands.
Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
- Location
- Adrift between sanity and madness
- Pronouns
- Shrug
I'm not. I'm just not going to Waste my time going into the minutia of different motivations for every demographic because A: Time and Energy, and B: Most people's opinions don't affect anything because they'll be killed for expressing them.
I do however believe your faith in the reasonability EN people to be factually wrong. Thus I ask again do you believe that our fundamental models of the EN and possibly people can be reconciled? Because if not then this conversation is pointless.
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- Location
- Fifth Dimension
Yes.
They also succeeded for decent amount of times. Pain...didn't really do that, actually he went for a ritual which got him ganked. But Yagura changed an entire village and had it changed for the foreseeable future until Pain ironically kidnapped him. Hashirama literally changed the ninja world forever.
So you know, I added something similar in my plan with the AKANE seal kits (only explosive and storage for now). A vote could go a long way towards helping those genin.
Good idea, I knew I forgot a seal. Added.
- Location
- a
It's really odd that you are saying this when Asuma have just limit our vengeance on the hagaromo for dooming akane, effectively making the punishment limited on hagaromo ruka who is the scapegoat and letting the hagaromo be free. There are many, and will continually be points where leaf interest and uplift will be against each other.
The entire point of FOOM is to make us powerful enough to be outside of such limited power structure to enforce our ideals effectively. Giving up FOOM isn't a "small leap of faith". It's basically giving him our gun away. And you think he would make himself and the entire leaf force dependant on our approval and noburi's? It's funny how you consider us keeping foom secret is treason, yet us keeping and limiting noburi from effectively empowering leaf from being the supreme power won't be treason, considering we just gave our greatest card foom away.
And do I need to point out what kind of setting this is? A setting where combat power goes correlate with political power.
Also, I want to remind the thread that Asuma didn't raise a finger when kei was going to be dissected. That both show how much power s rankers have and how much Asuma is really willing to save us.
- Location
- how about no
Mechanically this is sound for interacting with faction leaders, but from a simulationist perspective I doubt that uber Talk no Jutsu would allow us to steamroll all opposition to our ideals without proof that our ideals are in fact better for everyone. While rare, it has happened before that mechanics have changed in favor of simulationism that is why I am hesitant to build an overall plan with specific mechanics at its core.
Unless we find a way to safely spam Shadow Clones to a ridiculous degree (which, for the record, I am not ruling out) we will be unable to talk to and convince every single person in the Elemental Nations to embrace Uplift.
There are also the Ruka's of the world who will spite us in small yet hurtful ways because our ideals conflict with their worldviews. While we cannot win over all of the Ruka's, what we can and should do is create an environment where the Katsushi's of the world feel safe and secure enough to voice their objections to stop the malicious actions of those harboring old, outdated limiting mindsets.
- Location
- a
Are you seriously saying that we should try to win over someone that literally just doomed our loved one?
If you are trying to imply someone that is ideologically oppose to us by using ruka, that's bad taste for both hazo ic and the thread in general.
- Location
- how about no
My point is that it is effectively impossible to debate the reasonability of people in the EN because they are not a singular people, but a multitude of differing cultures, histories, traditions, etc.
I can point out instances where certain individuals or polities acted in reasonable, rational ways or does that fall under what you consider "minutia"?
We have very different mental models of MfD!Asuma's character.
I do not want Uplift to be a fad that dies out shortly after Hazou does. If we do not get a critical mass of people to believe in the dream of Uplift that dream will die with Hazou.
Hashirama's peace only extended as far as Fire Country's borders. I aspire for Uplift to be more ambitious in its scope than that.
We have absolutely zero proof that Ruka was instructed by her clan head to mess with Akane. This is an isolated incident until proven otherwise.
If one of our new adoptees caused the death of a Hagaromo either with malicious intent or through negligence we would be furious if Asuma seriously considered an argument from Ritsuo about having Hazou's head on a plate (or platter for better presentation).
"enforce our ideals"
Do you want to put that proverbial gun up to Asuma's head and one day effectively mug him for his power and authority?
We need a better plan than "Let's be strong enough to definitely be the most effective yet altruistic (we pinkie promise) bully in the world. Surely everyone on our team will follow me, Hazou, along as I commit the biggest act of treason of my life yet".
In a way, Leaf's force is already dependent on Hazou and Noburi for maximum force projection: Hazou has delivered not only Skywalkers and EM nukes but also invented the Zoo Rush which can only be fueled by Noburi. Asuma is smart enough not to piss off Hazou the golden goose if Hazou asks for limited implementation of FOOM by refusing Hazou outright. Will we be overruled? Possibly. Will it matter with all of the other shinies we will be getting as compensation? Most likely not considering what we were able to do with an Air Dome and a personal heating jutsu.
To me it seems perfectly clear that anything and everything we receive from the Tower comes with the understanding that any innovations we create with them need to be reported to Asuma, no matter when we originally got it.
Asuma bemoaned his inability to save Kei and Hazou and that Oro's crimes against humanity had to be tolerated for the overall safety of Leaf.
If Asuma could have saved them while keeping all of Leaf safe he most certainly would have done so. By giving him a proverbial copy of our proverbial gun he could finally enact the justice the people of Leaf have been waiting for ever since Oro walked back into Leaf's walls a free man(?).
No.
To clarify:
Katushi was the KEI clerk next to Ruka. It's people like him we should be trying to win over and reassure so that they speak out when malicious acts occur. If Katushi had felt safe enough to speak up when Akane was only a day or two late maybe she would still be alive, maybe not but she would have had better odds.