- Location
- barking
[X] Hire both
[X] Plan To The Hall
[X] Plan To The Hall
Fire Emblem: Last of the Manakete
- Thread starter SoaringHawk218
- Start date
- Fantasy
- Location
- Somewhere between here and there
Staying put is a trap option. Shit is about to hit the fan, and odds are we're about to lose access to both home and hall. We HAVE to hit one of them. The hall offers another training option, but otherwise just puts a rubber stamp on what we're doing already. Going back to Ryza's home will net items we can't get otherwise (and that will likely be destroyed forever if anyone but us finds them), and add some oomph to our story for anyone we drag along for the ride.
[X] Hire both
[X] Plan Safeguard the Manakete Legacy
[X] Hire both
[X] Plan Safeguard the Manakete Legacy
Last edited:
- Location
- Somewhere between here and there
IIRC she did. But odds are the same faction that can snipe an emperor where he should be untouchable can bust open that seal.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
The problem is that it's literally a needle in a haystack that's hidden very cleverly, that's not something you can find without having the run of the place for an extended period of time and a super agent to spare when they've already pulled the trigger on interfering.
The risk to me feels less "get this done now or it all gets lost", and more "things will get more complicated getting this later"
The risk to me feels less "get this done now or it all gets lost", and more "things will get more complicated getting this later"
Counterpoint would be that Jenna did not need long at all before she found.. well alot of stuff (she left most of it but took the stone as a peace offering) and who ever the shadow conspiracy sends is going to be very motivated in finding anything they can.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Practically speaking, the things that matter most are the stuff hidden away in the Sealed Chamber, which is extremely cleverly hidden.
Furthermore, "The Shadow Moves beyond your Sight" seems to be the action that gets--well, the Shadow to take direct action. If we don't pick that, the threat should not be "Invisible, omnipotent super wizards who just automatically succeed without contest". The more I think about it, the more I feel that the ruins can probably keep for at least one 'Chapter', but getting Accredited would be extremely difficult as the timeline moves on and word gets out further and tensions heighten (Though we're probably not looking at Open War breaking out right now unless the Shadow acts again or we pick the "Dark Forces attack at the worst possible moment" Bane)
At the end of the day, very few of the people who found the Ruins walked away from it, of them, relatively few were probably directly members of the Talons, and even then, moving a force significant enough to comb the entire place from top to bottom, smashing down every wall looking for the slightest boltholes would be... Very hard, especially with the Countess owing us bigtime.
I do think it'll be Complicated later, but I don't feel that the sanctum will be breached in a single chapter, and that's where our most important stuff is hidden. But getting to the Marble Hall later will be difficult, especially as word gets out.
So yeah, the ruins can probably keep for now. The Marble Hall can't. We might lose some of the stretch goal stuff, but the core treasures should remain intact as long as we get in there before the war starts in earnest. (And it'll take some time for them to undo all of the previous Emperor's actions, especially since we managed to avoid their thrust down this way).
[X] Plan: Get Accredited While We Still Can
-[X] Hire both
-[X] You need to go to the Marble Hall to get accredited. The fact that the Empire is apparently having problems means that you need to do this sooner rather than later, so you don't get caught up in anything. (Gain one extra Learning option)
-[X] Social Options: Who do you get to know better?
--[X] Kelton
--[X] Belle (Only available if hired as Retainer)
-[X] Learning Options (Can choose the same option multiple times to focus on it)
--[X] Continue learning Yellow magic
--[X] Continue along the Path of Awakening
--[X] Begin learning Runewrighting
-[X] Boons:
--[X] Your nature is warmly received by the Kingdoms.
--[X] The North receives a Blessing
--[X] Dark Forces march at the worst possible moment
We secure our gains and Being a good cuddledragon in our home region, and presumably the attempt to pull some Fuckery up North backfires just like the play in the South did, in exchange, something evil decides to just say 'Fuck subtlety' and takes the stage. But they don't get to stack the deck in their favor, because the attempts to foment chaos and discord apparently failed, leaving only main force as an option to tilt the scales.
And the thing is, if main force would have solved their problems, they'd have used it by now without trying to get fancy like this. So the board state should be relatively good for us even then, since it'd be facing a United Kingdom without having the ability to completely subvert the Empire first.
Now, on the topic of our Learning Options. We've learned Heal, that was Ryza's goal, to have an option to patch people up or stabilize them in a pinch. So it's a good time now to focus on continuing to master our Dragon Shift while also further developing our core magical potential. Yellow's next spell after all is Barrier, and having buffs to throw up on our team is no small thing either, and if we can get Elthunder something we can cast normally--that means using Thunder's Cry gives us tier three Lighting Magic instead, which is a big boost in power.
Most importantly, The Shadow does not get a free action, which means our cache of supplies at home should remain safe.
Miho Chan
One with too many ideas
- Location
- Hummelstown
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan: Get Accredited
-[X] Hire both
-[X] You need to go to the Marble Hall to get accredited. The fact that the Empire is apparently having problems means that you need to do this sooner rather than later, so you don't get caught up in anything. (Gain one extra Learning option)
-[X] Social Options: Who do you get to know better?
--[X] Kelton
--[X] Belle (Only available if hired as Retainer)
-[X] Learning Options (Can choose the same option multiple times to focus on it)
--[X] Continue along the Path of Awakening
--[X] Continue along the Path of Awakening
--[X] Begin learning Runewrighting
-[X] Boons:
--[X] Your nature is warmly received by the Kingdoms.
--[X] A boon unique to your path forward appears.
--[X] Dark Forces march at the worst possible moment
After thinking through it, I agree with this plan. My initial thought was "Who cares if we're accredited" but then I realized we should probably very much care. I've made my own modifications to this plan, since I don't believe it wise to not take a blessing unique to our path, and I wanted to focus more on either Yellow Magic or Awakening. Runewrighting is a must, but I feel like splitting "XP" here isn't wise.
-[X] Hire both
-[X] You need to go to the Marble Hall to get accredited. The fact that the Empire is apparently having problems means that you need to do this sooner rather than later, so you don't get caught up in anything. (Gain one extra Learning option)
-[X] Social Options: Who do you get to know better?
--[X] Kelton
--[X] Belle (Only available if hired as Retainer)
-[X] Learning Options (Can choose the same option multiple times to focus on it)
--[X] Continue along the Path of Awakening
--[X] Continue along the Path of Awakening
--[X] Begin learning Runewrighting
-[X] Boons:
--[X] Your nature is warmly received by the Kingdoms.
--[X] A boon unique to your path forward appears.
--[X] Dark Forces march at the worst possible moment
After thinking through it, I agree with this plan. My initial thought was "Who cares if we're accredited" but then I realized we should probably very much care. I've made my own modifications to this plan, since I don't believe it wise to not take a blessing unique to our path, and I wanted to focus more on either Yellow Magic or Awakening. Runewrighting is a must, but I feel like splitting "XP" here isn't wise.
[X] Plan To The Hall
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Lots of plans have been submitted, so I figured I'd poke around and try to summarize them.
The two leading plans (ie, plans with more than one vote) are To the Hall and Safeguard the Manakete Legacy.
[X] Hire both
[X] Plan To The Hall
[X] Plan: Get Accredited While We Still Can
The two leading plans (ie, plans with more than one vote) are To the Hall and Safeguard the Manakete Legacy.
- Plan Safeguard the Manakete Legacy focuses on socializing with our retainers, learning about white magic and Awakening (but not a third thing/specified thing to double down on), gives Ryza a warm reception, and (of course) has Ryza return to her old home.
- Plan To the Hall focuses on socializing with the Legerius folks, honing our yellow magic and Awakening, learning runewrighting, and going to the Marble Hall. We get a tantalizing "boon unique to your path forwards" and the warm reception, but the North suffers a vague setback.
- Friends and Omens: Return home, runewrighting, warm reception and broad good fortune balanced by a unique bane
- Get Accredited: Variant on To the Hall, socializing with our retainers, add the North getting a blessing and dark forces marching
- Get Accredited While We Can: Variant on Get Accredited, but with a unique boon instead of the blessing
- Reunions: Return home, socialize with people we don't know well, runewrighting, lots of boons
- Runes, Boons, Banes: Variant on Safeguard the Manakete Legacy with runewrighting instead of Awakening, and more boons/banes (i)ncluding both good dreams and nightmares)
[X] Hire both
[X] Plan To The Hall
[X] Plan: Get Accredited While We Still Can
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, ultimately, I feel the most important stuff at Ryza's home will be safe unless we give the Shadow a free move. That thing was safe even in the aftermath of a big purge when the Conspiracy had nothing else to do than cleanup, it's not going to be instantly detected and destroyed or captured when our lines are relatively safe unless we literally give the Conspiracy the freedom to take care of some stretch goals. Now, they might send something to occupy the Ruins and prevent us from easily marching in, but we have enough favors that we can wrangle some backup if that should happen, and nobody's going to want a hostile power in their backyard anyway.
The core between "Accredited while we still can" is to set up a board state that delays the onset of war between the Empire and Everyone Else, to get in and out before the Hawks can assert full control. The North getting a blessing suggests that the "Northern Front" completely backfires just like the "Southern Front" did, which means the Kingdoms are united and know that someone's trying to stir shit up, which gives them room to maneuver and send out feelers to the other influences. (In contrast, a setback tells me that the Northern Front was a complete success on the Conspiracy's part, and that key powers are functionally puppets to them now like Mantrae was. In between I think is 'They don't get everything they want, but enough to cause a headache' Artemis escapes, but Sypha is secured if you will)
"Dark Forces March" feels to me like either a monster wave or an Honorable Third Party taking action because being subtle has apparently backfired. But that kind of play takes time, time enough that Ryza can hopefully fully unlock her draconic heritage and have influence in her own right instead of just borrowed shade from the Archduke. This is also why I think a Warm Reception is important, because that kind of good reputation tends to snowball outwards, and gives the Conspiracy less levers to pull for internal fuckery. I don't feel Dark Forces March means the Empire will wardec unilaterally though, because that's going to piss everyone off. There's a reason they were trying to make the Kingdoms swing first after all, and whatever the Plan is, it seems to be to either stir up Chaos or cut the humans down a peg because they're getting a bit too strong to be easily manipulated, and that becomes a lot harder if the tool they used to control the humans is shaking apart because it's being wielded poorly.
The more work the Conspiracy has to do to hurt us, the better off we'll be. There's nothing we can do if an invisible, instant-kill mage-assassin decides to murk us, so we can't plan for that. Only do the best we can to make sure they're too busy to do so.
The core between "Accredited while we still can" is to set up a board state that delays the onset of war between the Empire and Everyone Else, to get in and out before the Hawks can assert full control. The North getting a blessing suggests that the "Northern Front" completely backfires just like the "Southern Front" did, which means the Kingdoms are united and know that someone's trying to stir shit up, which gives them room to maneuver and send out feelers to the other influences. (In contrast, a setback tells me that the Northern Front was a complete success on the Conspiracy's part, and that key powers are functionally puppets to them now like Mantrae was. In between I think is 'They don't get everything they want, but enough to cause a headache' Artemis escapes, but Sypha is secured if you will)
"Dark Forces March" feels to me like either a monster wave or an Honorable Third Party taking action because being subtle has apparently backfired. But that kind of play takes time, time enough that Ryza can hopefully fully unlock her draconic heritage and have influence in her own right instead of just borrowed shade from the Archduke. This is also why I think a Warm Reception is important, because that kind of good reputation tends to snowball outwards, and gives the Conspiracy less levers to pull for internal fuckery. I don't feel Dark Forces March means the Empire will wardec unilaterally though, because that's going to piss everyone off. There's a reason they were trying to make the Kingdoms swing first after all, and whatever the Plan is, it seems to be to either stir up Chaos or cut the humans down a peg because they're getting a bit too strong to be easily manipulated, and that becomes a lot harder if the tool they used to control the humans is shaking apart because it's being wielded poorly.
The more work the Conspiracy has to do to hurt us, the better off we'll be. There's nothing we can do if an invisible, instant-kill mage-assassin decides to murk us, so we can't plan for that. Only do the best we can to make sure they're too busy to do so.
Last edited:
- Location
- Gainful Employment
- Pronouns
- He/They
You only get a third learning action if you go to the Hall.
Reminder that Ryza does not need the tablets to cast spells, they just help. Case in point, we've been learning White Magic without the associated tablet.
Reminder that that Bane says that they march at the worst possible moment, which suggests that they won't be attacking when it is convenient for us.
I generally agree that from a min-max standpoint the best boon is probably guaranteeing Ryza is received well and that giving Shadow a move is probably the most detrimental. I'm not so sure "Go Home" vs "Go to the Hall" are working on different timeframes of availability and if anything I'd anticipate going home to be the one that expires first - it's probably a lot harder to justify to our allies to go to an abandoned border area that we know our enemies are aware of and may have interest in if war is even more imminent/has already broken out than it is to go to a nominally neutral institution. OTOH, political intrigue stuff would be a fairly compelling argument for why it'd be a bad idea to go to the Hall later. That's why I basically see those things washing out more or less. I see it as "we can only do one of these now" or "we actually have enough time to do both, pending other potential developments (and banes may influence this, granted.)" The latter makes more sense to me from a meta standpoint but who knows? If we are going to min-max I'd actually say there's an argument now that the banes are less likely to be crippling now in what is probably the early stages than later. A lot of FE narratives have a whole bunch of things go bad which you then spend most of the game fixing. I kind of see voting to give Shadow moves or the North suffering a setback sort of like votes that would be setting up the beginning of FE7 or 8 or the Daein invasion in Path of Radiance.
I don't dispute the summary of my plan given but I guess if I were to give my own summary it'd be "More of a narrative-based cathartic/spiritual return to Ryza's home in the relative calm before the storm."
I'm certainly open to modifying parts of it if there's a genuine sticking point or two with people and I'm always happy to discuss/answer criticism for my thinking on it. Though if it actually gets votes I'd be a lot more reluctant to make further changes unilaterally out of respect for voters.
I don't dispute the summary of my plan given but I guess if I were to give my own summary it'd be "More of a narrative-based cathartic/spiritual return to Ryza's home in the relative calm before the storm."
I'm certainly open to modifying parts of it if there's a genuine sticking point or two with people and I'm always happy to discuss/answer criticism for my thinking on it. Though if it actually gets votes I'd be a lot more reluctant to make further changes unilaterally out of respect for voters.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
These resources still have to come from somewhere.
They won't march when it's convenient for us, but they can't just magically appear ex nihilo wherever they need to be. It just means they'll show up and require a response in a time when we need every person we can somewhere else, splitting our focus in a dangerous time.
It won't mean "There's a quantum Dark Force floating around that will materialize the instant it would hurt you the most." These Banes are supposed to be headaches that demand a response, not Calamity in a Can and taking any of them is the end of times. Even the Shadow wasn't "Ryza dies at the worst moment." It was "A sympathetic Emperor is removed from the board in a flagrant fashion." That doesn't guarantee the end, or that the Empire immediately bloodlusts on everyone else, it just means it's easier for the Hawks to assert control of the Empire.
Last edited:
Reminder that said nominally neutral institution is right in the middle of enemy territory, meaning that getting there is going to be significantly more difficult and more dangerous as hostilities escalate.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
You'll note my plan tries to angle our Boons to maximize the time before open war breaks out, by spending a Boon on ensuring what is likely the complete failure of the Conspiracy's attempt to manipulate or otherwise interfere with the other half of our allied faction.
The Hawks weren't the peak of the Empire, they can't just unilaterally take control of everything without diluting its power as the formerly ascendent Moderates balk at the harsh demands. They need time to remove intractable moderates and sway fence-sitters, and that's time enough we can spend to get in and get out.
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ah, missed that. Thank you.
That qualification doesn't really connect to the issue JAGwin pointed out—it suggests the neutrality of the Hall is in question, not our ability to access it. And while there is a risk of getting caught in the middle of enemy territory if the war starts while we're there, we have a number of safeguards to mitigate that risk:
- We're not that close to war. There's the kidnapping conference, yes, but they haven't even convened to figure out a response, and I'm pretty sure they'll attempt some diplomatic negotiations before sending an ultimatum.
- The Marble Hall's neutrality definitely means that an accredited mage would be safe while at the Hall, and might even give us the leverage to return to Agrithe.
- Worst comes to worst, Ryza can fly away.
- In cases a bit short of absolute worst, we can recruit allies at the Marble Hall—mages who want to return to the Southern Kingdoms in this time of strife, for instance, or maybe some sympathetic/curious Revisionists. If nothing else, Apollo.
- Location
- USA
I think as you said the biggest issue is going to be the shadow bane. If we hadn't already voted for it previously I wouldn't mind it so much. Honestly I'm probably placing a little too much value on how detrimental the shadow moving is going to be but that's how I feel.
I'm torn between Reunions, To The Hall, and Get Accredited While We Still Can.
Going to the Hall or going Home weight evenly in my mind. I think it would be better for Ryza's peace of mind to go check home and we might find some things under the rubble or in blocked off areas that we're small enough to reach. It's supposedly the most well-preserved ruin that Jenna knows of and there was an entire dragonstone left there, so there's probably more things of value (even if just emotionally) outside of the hidden room. We won't know until we go. This is also the third or fourth time we've been offered a chance to go home so I feel that there's a good reason for that. I won't comment on the hall since everyone has made great arguments for going there already. I think both options would be interesting to read about.
No comments on the social options; I like every combination suggested thus far.
I'm hard committed to picking a Runewriting plan no matter what. I like the idea of delving more into yellow magic for the same reasons as Alectai but that isn't a dealbreaker.
I like Reunion's boon choices the most. That being said,
As far as I can tell your plan is the only plan thus far that doesn't include "Your nature is warmly received by the Kingdoms" as a boon. I don't mind that but by frequency it seems like it's something people are looking out for. What are your thoughts there?
Double editing my vote, because despite all the above I want to see home:
[X] Plan Safeguard the Manakete Legacy
Last edited:
Working a bit backwards through that because I think it flows better with how I'm thinking.
dragons manaketes in the span of a few weeks and not really interacting much with Ryza? Certainly I won't sabotage the efforts by taking the bane version (although I'm honestly not opposed to that in theory but Ryza's been through enough lately) but it just feels more fulfilling to me if it's the culmination of a lot of effort and outreach and we've barely even started there. I suppose this may be more of a first impressions type of deal though the wording sounds a bit stronger than that to me but I'm willing to leave it to the dice +/- modifiers based on what we've accomplished. ...Now watch it hit a nat 1.
All that said, if that's a dealbreaker to many on being a plan they'd vote for I could include it.
Now it could be I'm just projecting way too hard and SoaringHawk has fairly solid ideas on what each of the boon/banes would be already and so my entire idea of picking combinations that I think would work well together falls flat on its face because they're mostly pre-set and just... won't, at least not in the way I'm envisioning, but hey I can dream!
However to get back to the details of the plan. While I'm open to removing the Shadow bane and/or adding a warm reception boon, I felt like my calculus on balancing the boon/banes were pretty delicate and it'd be a bit tough to rework it. The boon I'd be most willing to drop from my plan would probably be unexpected allies. I'm definitely interested in the dream and the mystery box. As for banes, most of the others are actually the ones that struck me as more dangerous. That said, I'd certainly be up for adding the nightmare so long as it's allowed with the dream. And certainly if it needed for the boon/bane math or someone feels strongly about one of the other options I'd certainly be open to hearing them out.
I guess it's that narratively I'm just okay with leaving that to Ryza's efforts and it being a more long term plotline than having it solved by fiat here - is it necessarily realistic for the Kingdoms to just do an apparent 180 on
All that said, if that's a dealbreaker to many on being a plan they'd vote for I could include it.
That's fair. As I alluded to a bit earlier, I kind of see that bane as part of setting up the board/conflict that is approaching. Sure, something bad will happen, but that's just another challenge to overcome in my mind. A lot of FE narratives tend to have the board very tilted against the protagonists at the outset so I see it as emulating that idea. And just like I felt my boon choice, learning option, and location choice had good synergy I felt the bane combo of Shadow + Northern setback had good synergy. I feel like a persistent current of thought that ran through my plan was trying to take a combination of options that I felt worked together well in terms of forming a narrative: Ryza returning to her home after the stress of the past weeks and having just recovered her father's stone, possibly finding boons, dreams, or allies there while in the wider world the Shadow strikes hard at the Northern Kingdoms and the nature of the coming conflict becomes more clear.
Now it could be I'm just projecting way too hard and SoaringHawk has fairly solid ideas on what each of the boon/banes would be already and so my entire idea of picking combinations that I think would work well together falls flat on its face because they're mostly pre-set and just... won't, at least not in the way I'm envisioning, but hey I can dream!
However to get back to the details of the plan. While I'm open to removing the Shadow bane and/or adding a warm reception boon, I felt like my calculus on balancing the boon/banes were pretty delicate and it'd be a bit tough to rework it. The boon I'd be most willing to drop from my plan would probably be unexpected allies. I'm definitely interested in the dream and the mystery box. As for banes, most of the others are actually the ones that struck me as more dangerous. That said, I'd certainly be up for adding the nightmare so long as it's allowed with the dream. And certainly if it needed for the boon/bane math or someone feels strongly about one of the other options I'd certainly be open to hearing them out.
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Reminder that you can vote for all three! That's the power of Approval Voting.
Not saying you necessarily want to, that's not my call. But you can.
I mean, I do know what all of the boon/banes are, but even most of the "contradictory" ones can work well together (for example, I have a plan if both dream and nightmare are chosen). That's not to say that if an interesting combination is chosen, I'm opposed to making some minor modifications.