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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Halberdier said:
What are the odds that Asuma has Akane teach him the technique, she tests out its viability, he or his Anbu then kill us to keep it a secret that only he and his trusted Anbu has (and/or because of whatever else got read from Akane)?
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IMO low. He doesn't want us dead and likely thinks of us as valuable, loyal assets. I believed him when he said he thought that we made a mistake but that we weren't malicious etc.

I think he's desperately trying to avoid a situation where he needs to kill us.
 
I don't know if Asuma will be convincing. I don't think he's demonstrated sufficient charisma, manipulativeness or idealism in a way that would reassure Akane.

I don't think Asuma is capable of holding simultaneously the worldview that everyone is important and the people of the Fire nation are important, taking into account his behavior, the need as a leader/dictator to appear invulnerable and all knowing. I think "ninjas just have to suck it up so (nebulously) other people can live with clean hands" define him so much that it will be horrendously dissonance with him to, in this moment, reassure Akane.
 
Word count < 300

[X] Action Plan: The best time to keep trying is right now
  • Suggest to Asuma:
    • Let's investigate the current event before making concrete plans for after
    • Observations:
      • Solid matter, although scattered, does not seem to have been destroyed. The debris is still around.
      • The liquid is additional, and turns back into air
        • Ask someone to get some
          • Give them air supply seal
        • Bubbles underwater or fills waterskin or balloon
        • Collected result looks like air
        • Thus plausibly the jutsu transformed the air into the liquid
    • There are safer tests we could have started with, given foreknowledge, which still make sense and help OPSEC
      • It is possible to cast this in an deep underground, sealed cave. This has lots of advantages:
        • Primes above surface are shielded by ground
        • It could be limited in size since the air supply is limited
        • Worst-case is probably surface disruption that's less similar to original, which helps OPSEC
        • We can cast eg. in southern Iron, to make the mission faster
        • It's harder for others to observe underground than observe even fairly long distances at sea
          • Eg. ice could wash ashore
      • Other options to limit the jutsu:
        • Cast deep underwater
          • Ask Asuma how to make a zone of air under the ocean
        • In a deep well with a free connection to the surface
          • Limits the access to air, and can collapse if it goes nuke
        • Cast inside an airtight 5SB zone
          • Pre-check for airtightness
          • Pre-check if the material can survive being filled with liquid from the original (though the actual test would be elsewhere)
  • Then do that

Out of character context for why you should vote:

Asuma is trying to check whether the nuke is a fluke or a reliable attack. I think it might be possible to make it seem like a fluke, without much downside, by using the fact that Elemental Mastery only just went nuke because it was a cold day, and it probably won't in warmer circumstances.

1. This plan is an extremely believable story, in that I was literally making these suggestions a long time ago without ulterior motive, and have been repeating them recently. Hazō should be able to make these suggestions sincerely.

2. Temperature goes up as you go down into the ground. Akane's Elemental Mastery only just managed to go nuke, so there's a good shot this second attempt doesn't do the thing if we go somewhere warm. Underground tends to be warm.

I don't think this solves the problem, or is particularly robust, but, you know, let's keep trying. Now isn't the time to give up.

I personally give this about a 1-in-4 chance of working, with most of the downside being that Asuma keeps trying things after underground testing fails.
 
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I think we should strongly recommend to Asuma that the test be conducted over land, not water. With the amount of energy given off by that storm, I worry that the northern coast of the continent will get hit by a tsunami.
 
[X] Action Plan: Heart to Heart

@FaintlySorcerous I would highly recommend asking Asuma why Gaikotsu Bay is being suggested over Aisu Bay, given that the former is closer to Cloud (known to use Skywalkers) while the latter is closer to Rock (not known to use Skywalkers). Is there trade or ships moving around Aisu Bay which we are not aware of?
FaintlySorcerous said:
Go home. Obey Asuma's orders. Offer Akane comfort and space.
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We should, in all honesty, tell Mari about the latter part of our report to Asuma: the !bribes that we got. It'll clue Mari in on what's going on (that the nuke was somehow valuable enough for Asuma to offer all that shit for it), and give her a timeline to work with. It'll also let her warn us if and when we are forced to emergency-mission tomorrow or the day after, if she believes Asuma plans to kill us.
 
Veedrac said:
Observations:
  • Solid matter, although scattered, does not seem to have been destroyed by the event. The debris is still around.
  • The liquid is additional, and turns back into air, so it probably, in some sense, is the air that was sucked into the jutsu somehow.
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I am uncertain that any observers would be able to determine that the solid matter was always displaced, instead of displaced after a certain distance from the source OR destroyed if close to the source. I am more certain that observers would not be able to confirm that any liquid formed turned back into air, instead of being...say, fed into the earth. Or spirits got to them. There are many alternative explanations for what happened to the liquid besides "the liquid turns back into air", given that what would be observed is that the liquid disappeared.

Given these concerns, I have trouble determining whether or not Hazou and co. would be willing to perform such a technique underground and call it sufficient safety. Certainly, even if the above observations could be made, Asuma would not be willing to test an EM nuke in Fire Country on the off-chance that he was wrong.
acidshill said:
I think we should strongly recommend to Asuma that the test be conducted over land, not water. With the amount of energy given off by that storm, I worry that the northern coast of the continent will get hit by a tsunami.
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Well, that's one explanation why he wants to go so close to Cloud.
 
faflec said:
We should, in all honesty, tell Mari about the latter part of our report to Asuma: the !bribes that we got. It'll clue Mari in on what's going on (that the nuke was somehow valuable enough for Asuma to offer all that shit for it), and give her a timeline to work with. It'll also let her warn us if and when we are forced to emergency-mission tomorrow or the day after, if she believes Asuma plans to kill us.
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Actually, @eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped What is Hazou's opinion of telling Mari about this (the latter part of the Asuma debrief where he told us the Shimura compound was kicking us out, we were getting a compound in Leaf + apprenticeships + restricted Tower jutsu)? Is this too close to disobeying his orders?
 
faflec said:
I am uncertain that any observers would be able to determine that the solid matter was always displaced, instead of displaced after a certain distance from the source OR destroyed if close to the source.
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That's fair, but I don't think this part is critical to the plan.
I am more certain that observers would not be able to confirm that any liquid formed turned back into air, instead of being...say, fed into the earth. Or spirits got to them. There are many alternative explanations for what happened to the liquid besides "the liquid turns back into air", given that what would be observed is that the liquid disappeared.
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There are well known historical-coherent ways of learning this, like putting it underwater and seeing that it bubbles. I can add this to the plan.
Given these concerns, I have trouble determining whether or not Hazou and co. would be willing to perform such a technique underground and call it sufficient safety. Certainly, even if the above observations could be made, Asuma would not be willing to test an EM nuke in Fire Country on the off-chance that he was wrong.
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I'll clarify that it still wasn't meant to be done in Fire.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
[X] Action Plan: The best time to keep trying is right now

You where def right before so should extended more trust
 
Paperclipped said:
Feel free to include any suggestions to Asuma in your plan. He has been reasonable with taking feedback on missions in the past:
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That said, uh, I believe it's clear that a big part of his plan right now is Condors : Pangolins :: Isan : Asuma, and while this is monstrous, there may be a point to that re: not ending the world. Adjust your idea of "reasonable" accordingly
 
[X] Action Plan: The End Times

  • Finish mission given by Asuma.
  • When back home, don't break opsec WRT EM Nukes.
  • Continue research on unknown seals(Isan/Surbuetsu)
    • Do easy Seal research only. Try to find ones that doesn't require spending FP.
 
Oneiros said:
[X] Action Plan: The best time to keep trying is right now

You where def right before so should extended more trust
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Appreciated, though to set expectations I fully expect Asuma to also not give up, and this plan to merely buy us a little time at best. But I've yet to think of a better idea so I'm going with this.
 
Lysbeth Succubus said:
That said, uh, I believe it's clear that a big part of his plan right now is Condors : Pangolins :: Isan : Asuma, and while this is monstrous, there may be a point to that re: not ending the world. Adjust your idea of "reasonable" accordingly
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That reminds me. All the plans should make mention of Aida Rin and Mochiaki, who are Isan exiles that may or may not have knowledge of Elemental Mastery.
 
Veedrac said:
Appreciated, though to set expectations I fully expect Asuma to also not give up, and this plan to merely buy us a little time at best. But I've yet to think of a better idea so I'm going with this.
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TBH I think we're fine if we can keep the world from ending in a year. We will just have to launch a coup then and kill everyone who know's EM is a nuke
 
...I think we should disobey his orders and tell Mari. When someone tells you not to tell anyone that's suspicious. Especially when we're going on a sudden mission as a clan leader and apparently our clan doesn't need to know.
 
If we do to Isan terrible things, as this thread fear, Kei will be so unhappy with us. Her best teacher is in Isan. Yuno, and thus Noburi, would also be displeased. I hope the war has set a situation where Leaf and Isan ninjas are too amicable for them to be treated terribly.

On a different note, if we do a coup we should probably kill Orochimaru, Tsunade and Naruto first.
 
acidshill said:
I think we should strongly recommend to Asuma that the test be conducted over land, not water. With the amount of energy given off by that storm, I worry that the northern coast of the continent will get hit by a tsunami.
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That said I would love to consider what happens if it's cast, say, 10m underwater in an ocean. My opinion is "it would probably be beautiful, also maybe it'd last longer because once the effect wears off, it's a substantial volume of water that has to heat back up, not air?"
 
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