The write in could be considered as nagging or not trust her or such and from her sayaka relationship with Ai and personality she could take it wrong
In the Name of Love and Hatred! [PMMM / LoR]
- Thread starter Naron
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- The Frozen North
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Warn her
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue... but while there is something to be gained, there's also much to be lost. She should proceed with caution, preferably with occasionally check-ups by Ai.
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue... but while there is something to be gained, there's also much to be lost. She should proceed with caution, preferably with occasionally check-ups by Ai.
[X] Encourage her
I'm sure nothing bad will happen.
I'm sure nothing bad will happen.
WanderingTwix
Posting something good once in a full moon
- Location
- United Kingdom
I am also sure nothing bad will happen. Two fate tempts cancel each other out, right?
[X] Encourage her
engiSonic
Yesterday's Minder
- Location
- Under Artificial Skies
- Pronouns
- He/They
Oh good, I got here in time.
[X] Warn her
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue... but while there is something to be gained, there's also much to be lost. She should proceed with caution, preferably with occasionally check-ups by Ai.
[X] Warn her
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue... but while there is something to be gained, there's also much to be lost. She should proceed with caution, preferably with occasionally check-ups by Ai.
- Location
- Who knows?
[X] Warn her
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue... but while there is something to be gained, there's also much to be lost. She should proceed with caution, preferably with occasionally check-ups by Ai.
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue... but while there is something to be gained, there's also much to be lost. She should proceed with caution, preferably with occasionally check-ups by Ai.
- Location
- Germany
So, I get wanting to keep tabs on Sayaka's progress with the music and that would be a pretty decent adittion to the vote to encourage her, but can somebody explain the point of the "warn her" framing to me? Not because it makes no sense, but because Ai literally just did that. It's redundant to the point of being superfluous.
engiSonic
Yesterday's Minder
- Location
- Under Artificial Skies
- Pronouns
- He/They
I don't want to encourage her—Sayaka Miki, in my view, is nowhere near stable enough for encouraging her in this endeavor to be a good idea—but outright discouraging her could be perceived as being rude/hostile and agitate her. Even discounting any mind-altering effects of the Pianist's song, Sayaka herself says this is the first time in a while she's felt so driven towards a clear goal and telling her to stop, even if we think it's for her own good, will probably just put her into defensive mode.
Admittedly, it's a hell of a wishy-washy answer, but being cautious and insisting on keeping an eye on her for any early signs is the least bad option in my eyes.
- Location
- Germany
That is not an answer to my question. Like, sure, people are bandwagoning against an option that involves actually taking a stance, as if Ai's opinion has much of a chance to influence Sayaka, or as if we would be in any better a position to stop her after her mind deteriorated even further. Whatever lets you avoid having to stand up straight. I didn't want to actively call people out, but I get that part.
Now, what does repeating the last couple paragraphs of the chapter by warning Sayaka about the music again have to do with any of that, or is that part just word count padding?
engiSonic
Yesterday's Minder
- Location
- Under Artificial Skies
- Pronouns
- He/They
I don't think there's any justification I can give without coming across as defensive. I picked an option, tried to explain my reasoning, and if that reasoning is flawed, circular, or repetitious, then that's on me and I'll try to stand with my own two legs next time.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I must disagree. The Song seems to almost be overwriting the usual effects of the grief spiral. In the karaoke parlor, even when she was a heartbeat away from witching, she was very together and calm. She brushed off the Soul Gem is your soul thing, even joked about it.
The darker her gem gets, the more she hears the Song. The more she hears, the less upsetting information bothers her. Going off of that, we can tell her things now, because the nature of the song makes it easier for her to focus on other things.
So now we can try pitting her stubbornness against a memetic cognitohazard that's currently on a volume dial. Again, the darker her gem, the more she hears. The brighter her gem, the less she hears.
[X] Encourage her
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue. If she does though, she should not let anyone else hear it. She can control herself, but others might not be able too. Also, I want to come by every now and again to hear how your doing. It sounds like you have a knack for music
That's the important part, alongside the *Can't play if I'm dead* she said, if she knows that she don't die if the gem get full, why stop it? It may even finally allow her to hear the song perfectly. Sure, the song overwrite the normal grief spiral, all that means is that she'll take this decision calmly and become a witch to be able to play, she even has our word that witch don't necessarily want to kill people, removing one of her hang-up in becoming one.
It doesn't make it easier for her to focus on other things, on the contrary, the reason why the lichbomb didn't bother her was because she didn't focus on it, at all, as soon as she was able to focus, she got the normal reaction. She acted as if she was stoned, I can hardly call that focused.
- Location
- The Barrens
OH BOY! a quest about Queenie and PMMM sign me up baby.
[X] Encourage her
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue. If she does though, she should not let anyone else hear it. She can control herself, but others might not be able too. Also, I want to come by every now and again to hear how your doing. It sounds like you have a knack for music
Quite the read to binge but got there. Probably best to check up on her every now and again, but hey being productive isn't fully a bad thing, at least this way we won't be rebuffed at the door everytime.
[X] Encourage her
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue. If she does though, she should not let anyone else hear it. She can control herself, but others might not be able too. Also, I want to come by every now and again to hear how your doing. It sounds like you have a knack for music
Quite the read to binge but got there. Probably best to check up on her every now and again, but hey being productive isn't fully a bad thing, at least this way we won't be rebuffed at the door everytime.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Possible, but if when she learns the witch thing, she'll also learn that witches don't remember who they were and nothing about whi they were. Therefore she's all but guaranteed to forget the Song.
Now that Song might stick around becuase of what it is, but Sayaka wouldn't know that, and Ai has no evidence that the witch would.
Besides, there's no continuity of thought. Becoming a witch here seems to be nothing less then identity death. So no, Sayaka can't hear the full song.
Fair, but my point was that in that state, Sayaka can take what she would normally consider devastating news and keep going. And she's not so distracted that she can't engage with the information.
Witches don't remember what they were with their minds, but their barrier are clearly a living remembrance of it, she's all but guaranteed to bring the song to life, not forget it.
This is not a good thing. It's emotional detachment, indifference to what's happening, this is what leads to things like "Oh, my parents are dead, guess I'll make a piano out of their corpses." or, in this case, "So the gem getting full doesn't mean the song will disappear, guess personality death's worth it."
Why wouldn't the song continues? She has all the reasons to think that the reason the song is easier to hear when she has more grief is because she's getting closer to it's source, meaning that she can easily conclude that said source is her witch, which seems to be the case so....
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
And for all the attachment a Witch seems to have to them it might as well be empty set dressing. The Witch is not the girl.
How good or bad something is depends almost entirely on how much of something you have. Again, Sayaka was able to understand what a soul gem was and not freak until she got a full cleanse. Was it good she was on the verge of witching? No. Was it any better when she fully cleansed and then completely freaked? Also no.
Which brings me back to my point that she can use the Song to help her deal. Note that even when her gem was at near pitch black, she still hadn't killed anyone. Indeed, she was very unhappy about killing the Yakuza holding Hitomi. That's a similarly black and white moral conflict as cutting people into instruments. She seems unlikely to go kill crazy as things stand, and if that changes later we'll do something about it.
Why would the Song continue? Sayaka heard the Song, not her Witch. Her witch doesn't exist until her gem fills with Grief, or whatever the black stuff is going to turn out to be. Until then it's something only Sayaka knows. And we know that Witchs explicitly don't know anything about their former selves and what their former selves knew.
Are you sure about that? For all we know, a witch exist as soon as the gem is formed and is just dormant, actually, canon seems to implies things in this direction, what with Mami having a discussion with Candeloro in the different story.
Remembered somethings, see my edits.
In a very unhealthy manner, she wasn't copping, she was just not even realizing what was happening and the consequences, once again, that only leads to self destructive behavior, like, I don't know, almost committing suicide by negligence right as she learnt how it could've happened.
It was better, she was reacting and assimilating the fact, instead of almost dying via negligence. As she was, she wouldn't have reacted to something about to run over her gem given how taken she was with the song.
At the end of the day, one of Oktavia's biggest symbolism was music, there is absolutely no doubt that she'll play the song if she appears, this is Sayaka's biggest obsession right now.
Edit:
Actually, Rebellion does give a definitive answer as to whether or not the wich is the girl: yes, yes she is, the enterity of the homulily part is based on this premise, with the ones making the call being the best persons to ask this question to.
Edit2:
I can't believe I almost forgot this, but there is also Nagisa running around in witch form for almost the entire film… almost as if they weren't different entities but actually the same person…. Strange that…
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kaillll
Judgment Upon You
[X] Warn her
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue... but while there is something to be gained, there's also much to be lost. She should proceed with caution, preferably with occasionally check-ups by Ai.
don't know why but i think we forgot something... can't remenber, oh well.
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue... but while there is something to be gained, there's also much to be lost. She should proceed with caution, preferably with occasionally check-ups by Ai.
don't know why but i think we forgot something... can't remenber, oh well.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I'm starting to lose your point. If you really think that it's to dangerous, and that she can't handle the Song, then just vote to discourage her. An unhealthy response isn't great, I agree, but I don't see a lot of other way to keep her from flying off the handle if she finds out something upsetting besides being doped up on the Song a bit.
Like say she's sees another MG witch out. No Song, she has to deal with it right there. With the Song playing in her mental background at least that way she can find like, Madoka or Mami or someone she trusts, then get a few Seeds and clense until she's calm.
On the boarder points, Rebellion had a lot of factors in play, or even just the big one that was the Law of Cycles, that make it non-applicable to this situation. In every way that matters for interacting with a witch right now, the magical girl they were is dead.
thelordofmango
may be stupid
- Location
- under a rock
[X] Warn her
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue... but while there is something to be gained, there's also much to be lost. She should proceed with caution, preferably with occasionally check-ups by Ai.
-[X] It's up to her if she wants to continue... but while there is something to be gained, there's also much to be lost. She should proceed with caution, preferably with occasionally check-ups by Ai.
Discouraging her is doomed to fail, all she'll do is brake herself against us, that's how Sayaka react 100% of the time, that's why I'm not voting for it.
I remembered a lot of points showing that the anime very much counts them as being the same on a metaphysical level:
-Kazumi Magica: The Pleiades managed to remake their friends out of nothing but material from her witch, only failed because the memories of being a witch were so traumatic, it made them go berserk, and they couldn't remove just theses memories, the clones did recover them anyway in these cases. Also: One of the pleiades continue protecting Kazumi after becoming a witch towards the end, and Kazumi still act like the person she was made from despite having none of her memories.
-Tart Magica: Lapin's entire gimmick is that she can witch then come back as many time as she wants. Also, Isabeau was partially turned back due to Lapin's wish and kept her wish magic from when she was a magical girl, allowing her to grant wish, she actually was the one who granted Lapin's wish, so she still had it as a witch, the only problem is that she basically suffered from the same berserk issue as the kazumi clones due to the memories of witching out.
-Magia record: The doppel system is the girls partially witching out then turning back, also, one of the girls responsible for the system was successfully turned back from being a witch.
-Suzune magica: The entire reason Suzune can get magic from magical girls as well as witches is because they are the same beings.
-First anime: Kyubey describe the process of becoming a witch as similar to turning into an adult, not dying and something else taking your place.
Everything in canon points to the witch having the same souls as the girls and being the same person as a result.
Sounds to me like Witches are the Magical Girl equivalent of distorting.