What would readers prefer?

  • Pure narrative quest: no dice will be used, the author will have free reign to decide what happens.

    Votes: 25 59.5%
  • New dice system: the author will design a new, better dice system to add some randomness and risk.

    Votes: 17 40.5%

  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .
Gaiden Chapter 1: Combat "Training" (Kelton's POV)
AN: This might or might not be canon. It is mostly designed to test out the new combat mechanics before we get to a serious fight.


"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle."



The sun isn't even up yet when you push open the door of the (extremely fancy) room you'd been stuffed in when you arrived with Lady Cartese and company. Part of is because you've done it so many times it would probably be harder to not rise early. Besides, you have a reputation to maintain as the Champion of the Miau Militia!

'By virtue of being the only permeant member,' Ardan's dry voice brings your ego back into check as if she was actually there.

"You need something?" a voice asks.

Looking around, you force back a frown as you see that the guard has been increased since last night: there are now a round twelve soldiers in the corridor: three on either side with six more posted along the wall, opposite the party's rooms. And these are no green troops: you can tell right away that they're well trained, and they carry steel lances and well-maintained armor. This level of protection would be ludicrous in Miau for anything, and even here, with a foreign noblewoman, it seemed… excessive.

You shake your head slightly: Her Ladyship the Countess was probably just worried; after all, bandits running around didn't look great, and if something were to happen it would be a black mark Legarius might never recover from. Better to be safe than sorry.

"Just going to do my training," you say, hefting your own spear. "Got to stay in shape."

The other soldier raises an eyebrow. "I think we have things well in hand, boy," he says, gesturing around to draw attention to his cohort as if you were some rookie who couldn't talk and think at the same time.

You force back your injured pride before shooting him a grin. "I have not slacked off on training a day since I took up this spear," you say. "And I'm not gonna start now. Besides, we're not gonna be here forever, and I gave my word that I'd get the good lady back home after she saved my sister. Can't do that if I'm not at my best."

The man started to open his mouth, only to be interrupted. "I'll deal with him, Castor," another of the soldiers, a woman, said. "You keep an eye on the kid if she ever surfaces."

"But-" The first guard shakes his head. "Fine. Just remember what we were told."

"Sure," the woman says, walking past you with only a jerk of her head to indicate you should follow. Raising an eyebrow, you lengthen your step until you're walking beside her: you had enough of following people around after Ryza's silly duckling comment. Although, looking back, it had been kinda funny just how earnest she'd sounded when she suggested it.

Still, not reason to be rude. "Thanks," you say to the woman.

She grins. "I should almost be thanking you, you gave me the chance to get out of babysitting duty," she says. "'Sure, stick Claire with the little girl: she's a woman,' they say. 'All women know how to handle little kids, right?'"

"Hey, Ryza's a good kid," you say. A little weird, maybe, but for some sort of magical experiment that Lady Cartese had rescued from the Imps, Ryza was pretty stable.

Claire raised an eyebrow. "If you say so," she says. "I'd kind of been hoping to get some time on the yard today too, so you're doing me a double favor. How good are you?"

You puff up your chest a bit. "I'm the best in Miau," you say confidently.

She simply smirks. "You'll find things are a little different around here, country boy," she says. "Don't go biting off more than you can chew."

"You don't believe me?" you ask, bristling.

"Hey, I'm sure you're halfway decent; a noblewoman wouldn't let you come with her if you weren't. I'm just saying that we train hard here."

"So do I," you say.

"We'll see," she says before lengthening her stride and ignoring any further attempts to engage her. Growling slightly, you speed up yourself. She responds in kind, and it's all the two of you can do to stop yourselves from running down the hall trying to one-up each other.

Finally, just as the sun is starting to peek above the horizon, Claire comes to a halt in front of a big door decorated with crossed spears. Pushing it open, she steps into a large, open room, lined with pillars and open to the outside. "Training yard," she says. "Looks like we've got a few early risers, so it won't just be us."

You look over to see what she's referring too. A group of twelve younger men, some looking younger than you, are panting and clutching at their training spears. They have no padding or shields, even as they face a group of eight soldiers fully equipped for training, led by an even harder-looking man who's glowering at the first group.

"That all you got, maggots?" he growls. "Pathetic. All of you, pathetic! Again!"

One of the younger men, nursing his ribs, let out a weak cry as he stepped forward. Before he could even begin to raise his spear for a proper blow, however, the leader's own practice spear stabs out in three quick jabs, sending the boy to the ground. He doesn't get up.

"Dead!" the thug roars, whacking the prone figure again and again. "I tell you once, I tell you twice, I tell you a hundred times, but you still can't do the simplest thing!"

Your eyes narrow in fury as you start to step forward, only to be held up by a hand grabbing your arm. "Don't," Claire says, a mix of anger and bitterness coloring her voice. "Fox's the meanest asshole this side of the border, and he doesn't like anyone challenging his training methods. Don't stick your neck out, it won't do any good."

You clench your fist. "This isn't training," you say coldly as you watch the injured recruit crawl weakly back to his fellows, all of whom look utterly beaten.

"No, it's not, but there's nothing we can do about it."

"AGAIN!"

None of the recruits move, save for one who's busy trying to help his fellow to his feet. Fox's mouth widens into a cruel smirk. "Get 'em, boys."

The group of soldiers with him grin as they start casually walking forward, their spears pounding against the ground as they lash out with taunts and jibes. The recruits started backing up fearfully, and it's clear the second they break, the soldiers will be all over them.

You don't even consciously decide to move. All you can hear is your blood pounding in your ears, all you can see is red, and the next thing you know, you've grabbed a training spear from the nearby rack, hefted your shield, and moved to join the cluster. "Hold!" you snap to the recruits. "Hold your line!"

A hush falls over the room as Fox glowers at you. "Who the fuck are you, boy!" he roars.

"My name is Kelton of Miau," you snarl. "And where I'm from, trainers are supposed to teach their charges, not brutalize them!" The recruits all look at you with something resembling awe, though it could just be your imagination because of their battered faces.

Fox's face goes red. "I don't recall asking your opinion, boy," he snarls. "Now get out of here before I send you to the healer in pieces."

"That would be ill-advised," Claire says coolly from behind you. "I have been ordered to ensure that this one remains uninjured, by the Countess herself."

Fox glares at her, his face turning from red to an ugly blotchy purple. One of the recruits takes another step back, but you gently put your spear behind him: at this moment, any sign of weakness will lead to disaster. He shudders, but stays put.

Then, suddenly, Fox smiles. "Of course," he says, his voice silky. "But this is the training hall, it's expected for there to be some… bumps, shall we say." He gives you a sickening smile. "What do you say, Kelton of Miau? Want to have a real education?"

Contrary to popular belief back home, you're not stupid. You know he's baiting you, wanting an excuse to pound you for daring to defy him.

You simply don't care.

"I was looking forward to a bit of exercise," you shoot back before looking to the recruits. "Come on, guys, let's show them what you're really capable of."

None of the recruits look particularly happy, but as you give them a confident smile they glance between you and their tormenters and seem to decide that they'd rather be with you than alone.

Claire, meanwhile, is glaring at you in clear frustration. However, she sighs. "If that's what you both want…" she says. "But this will be a fair spar, am I understood?"

"Of course," Fox says. "If you want these worms, boy, feel free. I, of course, will have my own soldiers with me. We can consider this an impromptu test." He gives them all a scathing look. "You'd have done better to just fight me yourself."

You narrow your eyes. "We'll see," you hiss, leading your impromptu posse towards the wall. "Come on, let's get you all equipped."

"But Sergeant Fox says that only real people are-" one of the recruits starts weakly.

You toss him a shield, which he barely catches. "You're training to be soldiers, right?" you ask. "Soldiers use shields: so you'd better get used to them."

The men all look at each other before slowly nodding. "I guess…"

As they put on their training gear, you watch to see what Fox and his goons are up to. The man himself is having a quiet, intense conversation with Claire, who really doesn't look happy. However, she finally backs off, taking a position between the two groups, glaring at both of you about equally.

Fox gathers his men, splits them in half, and sends one group each way, forming a long, sharp triangle pointing away from you, with himself at the point furthest away. 'Coward,' you think scathingly, though you notice that there is just enough space to get between the two groups if you wanted to. It would be tricky, though, as both groups look like they have a plan. They do seem somewhat laid back, though, calling the occasionally taunt across the hall.

"So what do we do, sir?" one of the recruits asks. "Tom and Bill are both too injured to be of much help: they… they got the worst of it before you showed up."

Glancing back, you see that indeed two of the recruits are simply leaning against their spears, looking like they can barely stand.

"Alright, they'll hold up the rear," you say. "As for what we're going to do, listen up. This Fox guy's a bully; I've seen plenty like him and his posse. We take him out, the rest of his goons'll back off. As for how we're gonna do that-"


AN: This battle is designed to test out the new combat system. I've posted the mechanics themselves below; please ask any clarifying questions and tell me anything that doesn't make sense.

Pre-Battle Phase:


Your Force:
Kelton (Level 2, Training Spear)
10x Recruits (Level 1, Training Spears)


Enemy Force:
Group 1: Michael Fox (Level 2 Boss, Training Spear)
Group 2: 4x Soldiers (Level 2, Training Spear)
Group 3: 4x Soldiers (Level 2, Training Spear)


Battlefield:
An empty training hall with no noticeable terrain. The enemy is split into 3 groups, Group 2 and Group 3 closer to you than Group 1. There is a gap you could attempt to thread.


Primary Objective: Defeat Michael Fox

Secondary Objectives:
[] Write In (Plan)
[] Secondary Objectives: All for One
-[] 1: Don't let any recruits get hurt
-[] 2: Defeat Michael Fox personally
-[] 3: Defeat all other soldiers

Strategy:
[] Write In (Plan)
[] Strategy: Divide and Conquer
-[] Step 1: Engage one of the groups of 4 and defeat them (Kelton, 10x Recruits).
-[] Step 2: (Group 1) Send Kelton and four recruits to defeat Fox (Kelton, 4x Recruits) // (Group 2) Send remaining recruits to hold off the second group, fighting defensively (6x Recruits)
-[] Step 3: Gather up to finish off any stragglers who have not surrendered (Kelton, 10x Recruits)

Remember: all combat votes will be Plan votes.

This could go great. This could go horribly. Either way, let's rock it. Also, I updated the character sheets with their skills. Also, the long delay before voting is to make sure that everyone understands the mechanics and any mistakes I've made are ironed out, so please don't start actually voting until then.
 
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Combat Mechanics 2.0
COMBAT MECHANICS:

PLANNING:

Before combat begins, players will have a chance to vote on how they intend to use the resources at their disposal. This comes in two parts: Objectives and Strategy. All combat votes will be Plan Votes.

-Objectives: I will usually state the primary objective of the combat; most often the defeat of an enemy boss but occasionally something more complicated.

Players, meanwhile, will be able to vote for various secondary objectives. I will give ideas, but I encourage write-ins based on the post.

Starting from 1 (the most important secondary) and going down, players will decide how important they deem each secondary objectives. I will then use this when I am deciding the outcomes of various dice rolls.

-Strategy: This is where players decide how they are going to succeed in their objectives. Players will allocate their characters into groups and lay out what order they intend to do things it. This strategy may take several posts to execute, giving players a chance to modify if something unexpected happens, but in generally I will stick to it.

Once votes are made, I'll roll dice and determine the outcomes until the next major decision point.


DICE MECHANICS:

When in combat, D10s are used to determine combat outcomes, with the threshold for success dependent on who's rolling.

-Standard dice: A standard dice naturally succeeds on a roll of 9 or 10. These dice are typically used for minions and green units.

-Strong dice (s.) A strong dice naturally succeeds on a roll of 7, 8, 9 or 10. These dice are typically used for player units and bosses.

-Dragon dice (d.) A dragon dice is more rare, and naturally succeed on 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10. They are used when tapping directly into draconic power in some way, be it a manakete's dragon form or certain weapons that are more deeply tied to dragons.

Dice Numbers: Heroes and bosses will typically roll (1+(Level)) dice, while minions and green units will typically roll (Level) dice.

Additional dice can then be added based on tactics, circumstances, and Supports.

For example: in the recent bandit fight, there would be 2 groups, you, Kelton and the militia fighting outside of the camp and Artemis's group infiltration. Both groups would only be rolling against parts of the enemy force, making two smaller combats rather than one big one. You, Kelton and the green units would roll against the bandit boss and however many minions he was able to get to follow him, while Artemis, Axton, Lancel and Arden would face some of the others.

Supports: Although characters can have many supports, they can only benefit from one Support at a time in combat. When a pair of units with Support are in the same combat, they will each give each other 1 dice for C rank, 2 dice for B rank, and 3 dice for A rank (for a total of 2, 4 and 6 extra dice).


RUNNING COMBAT:

Enemies, rather than all being counted together, will start split up into groups, though as the battle goes on these groups can change.

Combat goes by rounds: in each round your groups will roll against any enemy groups they have been matched with. Whenever combat happens, I will roll the dice pools against each other 3 times, checking which side got more successes in each round. Which of these 3 sets get used depends on whether Ryza and company have Advantage, Parity or Disadvantage.

-Advantage: You're currently winning, or at least doing well. Whichever of the 3 rolls is better for you will be used.

-Parity: Both sides are roughly even. Most combats will start this way, unless clever tactics are employed. The middle result will be used.

-Disadvantage: You're on the back foot, and the result that is worst for you will be chosen.

Before rolling, I will have decided what the potential results of the combat, with outcomes becoming progressively better/worse the more you win/lose by. The typical results table will look like this (though I won't post it):

Win by more than 6: ???
Win by 5-6: ???
Win by 3-4: ???
Win by 1-2: ???
Tie : ???
Lose by 1-2: ???
Lose by 3-4: ???
Lose by 5-6: ???
Lose by more than 6: ???

After all combats in a round have been resolved, I will look at any unengaged enemy groups and determine what they would do in response to the events of the round. This could be moving to reinforce a nearby ally group, attempt to complete some objective, or perhaps even running away if they think things are going badly. I will then move onto the next round.

Should there be a radical change in circumstances, players will have a chance to vote for new/modified Strategy/Objectives, but otherwise I will keep rolling.


MODIFING DICE

There are several ways dice can be modified.

Battalions: Sometimes, a strong leader can push their troops to greater heights. This will be done through forming a Battalion. Weaker units can give their dice to a leader, upgrading them. This will typically cause their Standard dice to become Strong dice, though it could go all the way to Dragon if that's what the leader is using.

Weapons: Fire Emblem games encourage the use of strong weapons to tip the scales. To simulate this, having special weapons will improve dice. For example, in the bandit fight, I mentioned several times that the bandit boss's axe was shiner and sharper: it was a Steel axe rather than Iron. There are several types of weapons you are typically going to see.
-Steel Weapons/Tier 2 spells add an additional dice to the wielder's pool
-Silver Weapons/Tier 3 spells add two additional dice to the wielder's pool
-Rune Weapons/Tier 4 spells are very rare, but when used add two Dragon dice to the wielder's pool
-Killer Weapons: Crits are scary. When a character is wielding a Killer weapon, rolled 10s will count as 3 successes.
-Brave Weapons: The wielder of a Brave weapon can attack twice in a Round.
-Effective Weapons: Half the wielder's natural dice are automatically counted as successes when fighting an enemy their weapon is effective against (Example: Bows vs flyers).

Weapon Triangle: When facing an opponent who has weapon triangle advantage (Sword beats axe, axe beats lance, lance beats spear), a character will lose one dice and their opponent will gain one. For groups of minions and green units, the most common weapon type in the group will be used.

Skills: All player characters, and certain powerful bosses will have skills that allows them to alter dice, re-roll dice, or gain automatic successes in certain circumstances. They will typically have two: a personal skill that is unique to the character, and a class skill based on their class.

Defense/Healing: On occasion, either strong defenses or a healer makes it so that fighters have a hard time wounding their opponents. This will be tracked by having Defense and Healing points, which counteract opposing hits. For example, in the bandit fight, Ardan the healer was with Artemis. This would mean that, should Artemis's group take injuries (enemy dice successes), Ardan would be able to cancel some of the enemy hits out on a 1 to 1 basis.

Other Items: Sometimes, players can use other items they might have to tip the scales in their favor. Items that can have combat effects will be listed in the Inventory post at the beginning of the quest.


I would like to thank Barondoctor and VagueZ for their invaluable help in designing this system, as well as the TreseBrothers (One of the best if not the best Indie game developers around IMHO) for providing the basis of the dice system.
 
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So if I'm processing this correctly, this would be a valid plan.

[] Kelton's Drill
-[] Pull 4 recruits under Kelton's leadership. If any are lost, replace from reserve. Cycle fresh troops between groups; this gets everyone a turn and allows you to retain an aggressive footing while letting potentially exhausted troops rest.
-[] Have the remaining six remain in reserve preventing a pincer movement by group 3 as Kelton's group smashes group 2
-[] Smash group 2 with Kelton's group.
-[] Smash group 3 with Kelton's group.
-[] Hit Fox with Kelton's group, flank with the reserves.
 
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So if I'm processing this correctly, this would be a valid plan.

[] Kelton's Drill
-[] Pull 4 recruits under Kelton's leadership. If any are lost, replace from reserve. Cycle fresh troops between groups; this gets everyone a turn and allows you to retain an aggressive footing.
-[] Have the remaining six remain in reserve preventing a pincer movement by group 3 as Kelton's group smashes group 2
-[] Smash group 2 with Kelton's group.
-[] Smash group 3 with Kelton's group.
-[] Hit Fox with Kelton's group, flank with the reserves.

Yes, this would be a valid plan for the Strategy section.

Adding a Secondary Objectives section would let me better tailor what you want to make sure gets done and what you're willing to give up to achieve the primary objective.
 
[] Kelton's Drill
-[] Pull 4 recruits under Kelton's leadership. If any are lost, replace from reserve. Cycle fresh troops between groups; this gets everyone a turn and allows you to retain an aggressive footing while letting potentially exhausted troops rest.
-[] Have the remaining six remain in reserve preventing a pincer movement by group 3 as Kelton's group smashes group 2
-[] Smash group 2 with Kelton's group.
-[] Smash group 3 with Kelton's group.
-[] Hit Fox with Kelton's group, flank with the reserves.

Secondary objectives:
1: Prevent losses
2: Cycling fresh troops and engaging one group at a time
3: Clean Sweep of all hostiles.

Thoughts: Kelton is doing the leadership thing. The other two groups are closer and it's easier to crush the unled groups while fresh than to go straight to fox and have them on our backs.
 
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I've never had much of a head for mechanics and generally have tried to take a backseat where possible when they come up but I suppose I can never get any better without trying.

Kelton's skills seem pretty well-suited for this battle at a glance. His class skill (Class: Shield Wall: Re-roll as many dice as you have allies in combat.) means our troops can provide his better dice with re-rolls and his personal (Personal: Fearless Champion: Whenever facing an enemy with Strong dice, gain 1 automatic success.) should proc against Fox when we get to that.

On average rolls, pretty sure Kelton + even 2 soldiers should expect more successful rolls than either Enemy Group 2 or 3 thanks to Shield Wall. Still, it's probably to our advantage to give him more than that to really up the odds so we could stand a better chance of just completely routing one of those groups quickly so we can link up with the secondary/reserve group to handle the rest.

...Basically, a lot of words to say that I think Barondoctor's plan looks good to me LOL.
 
The mechanics are super interesting to me, I have been toying with how to do fire-emblem scale combat in a quest format for a while but didn't really get anywhere because I Am Not A Game Designer. I am excited to see how they work out in practice.
 
The mechanics are super interesting to me, I have been toying with how to do fire-emblem scale combat in a quest format for a while but didn't really get anywhere because I Am Not A Game Designer. I am excited to see how they work out in practice.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Ashen (FE3H Quest)

A quest set in Fire Emblem: Three House's Fódlan, in which Jeralt and Byleth wander the continent as mercenaries.
Probably my favorite mechanical integration. FE3H based, but covers a lot.
 
I'm looking at alerts:
"A new chapter! That's good, I was a little worried about how Ryza would get along with the others. On the other hand, even if she doesn't do well, what's the worst that could happen?"
"Eh? Another chapter?"
Combat Mechanics 2.0
"Okay... That doesn't sound good. Not at all."
 
Voting is open, though if there are any questions that come up feel free to ask.

@Barondoctor One thing I meant to say earlier, if you could make the Secondary Objectives their own vote tree, that would be helpful, since I use them to tailor the results table.
 
[X] Kelton's Drill
-[X] Pull 4 recruits under Kelton's leadership. If any are lost, replace from reserve. Cycle fresh troops between groups; this gets everyone a turn and allows you to retain an aggressive footing while letting potentially exhausted troops rest.
-[X] Have the remaining six remain in reserve preventing a pincer movement by group 3 as Kelton's group smashes group 2
-[x] Smash group 2 with Kelton's group.
-[x] Smash group 3 with Kelton's group.
-[x] Hit Fox with Kelton's group, flank with the reserves.

-[X] Secondary objectives:
--[X] 1: Prevent losses
--[X] 2: Cycling fresh troops and engaging one group at a time
--[X] 3: Clean Sweep of all hostiles.

Thoughts: Kelton is doing the leadership thing. The other two groups are closer and it's easier to crush the unled groups while fresh than to go straight to fox and have them on our backs. The maneuver is called Kelton's drill because he's lining up the enemy and driving his team through them.
 
[X] Kelton's Drill
-[X] Pull 4 recruits under Kelton's leadership. If any are lost, replace from reserve. Cycle fresh troops between groups; this gets everyone a turn and allows you to retain an aggressive footing while letting potentially exhausted troops rest.
-[X] Have the remaining six remain in reserve preventing a pincer movement by group 3 as Kelton's group smashes group 2
-[x] Smash group 2 with Kelton's group.
-[x] Smash group 3 with Kelton's group.
-[x] Hit Fox with Kelton's group, flank with the reserves.

-[X] Secondary objectives:
--[X] 1: Prevent losses
--[X] 2: Cycling fresh troops and engaging one group at a time
--[X] 3: Clean Sweep of all hostiles.
 
Here's hoping I didn't miss anything and the dice fall nicely.
 
[X] Kelton's Drill
-[X] Pull 4 recruits under Kelton's leadership. If any are lost, replace from reserve. Cycle fresh troops between groups; this gets everyone a turn and allows you to retain an aggressive footing while letting potentially exhausted troops rest.
-[X] Have the remaining six remain in reserve preventing a pincer movement by group 3 as Kelton's group smashes group 2
-[x] Smash group 2 with Kelton's group.
-[x] Smash group 3 with Kelton's group.
-[x] Hit Fox with Kelton's group, flank with the reserves.

-[X] Secondary objectives:
--[X] 1: Prevent losses
--[X] 2: Cycling fresh troops and engaging one group at a time
--[X] 3: Clean Sweep of all hostiles.

Let's see how this goes.
 
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