Well next up would be some more politics in the context of the Curia and too complex to work out at this hour.

On that note good night guys, see you tomorrow with the birth of environmentalism.
 
Don't forget to vote, y'all. We've gotta save the environment of the Death World we live on!
[X] Crake

I still want pollution eating Leshys. Leshys are the answer to every problem we have.
Maybe not a Leshy, but I'm sure the Forges could whip up some sort of air filtration lifeform, one "planted" on the outlet of a chimney or smokestack to capture and sequester airborne waste products.
 
Don't forget to vote, y'all. We've gotta save the environment of the Death World we live on!

Maybe not a Leshy, but I'm sure the Forges could whip up some sort of air filtration lifeform, one "planted" on the outlet of a chimney or smokestack to capture and sequester airborne waste products.
As long as it eats pollution and shits jellybeans I'll be happy.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 16, 2021 at 1:45 AM, finished with 39 posts and 9 votes.

  • [X] Chemical and air pollutants in industrial applications need to meet environmental safety standards. Non-commercial usages should have no less stringent standards.
    -[X] Voice interest in developing means to make these applications and usages cheaper, but make no promises.
    --[X] When the inevitable objections come: "I'm sure the Valyrians thought that the possible consequences of harnessing the primordial power of the deep earth were very exaggerated, when Diviners from the Priesthood attempted to ascertain what would happen should the worst occur."
    --[X] "Should it be considered, then, that since it took thousands of years for it to finally happen, those who foist off the calamity to befall their descendants should jump at every such opportunity, even when evidence provided to them could have had themselves considered forewarned, far in advance?"
    --[X] "I would say no, because by the time one cannot any longer ignore the cost of their actions, likely in the best case, counter-acting these effects would face stiff resistance to change, due to over-dependency and malignant self-interest. Or else it would already be too late to do anything to prevent those harmful effects, and would in essence be more a matter of preserving a few tattered scraps, which just guarantees more conflict."
    --[X] Nod at your Herald, who repeats the refrain, "Hail to the Imperator, may He reign twice ten thousand years and more!"
    --[X] "For my part, I'd like my realm to have clear skies and breathable air by then."
    [X] Make the case that we don't want to use due to the long term effects.
    -[X] Also mention that even petty magic can be used to produce continuous heat, it's no really needed here.
    [X] Make the case that we don't want to use due to the long term effects.
    [X] Chemical and air pollutants in industrial applications need to meet environmental safety standards. Non-commercial usages should not no less stringent standards.
    -[X] There will be research grants directed towards clean energy or pollutant neutralizing efforts, to make usage of such products more affordable.
    -[X] Authorize the creation of a Sub Ministry of Environmental Protection
    -[X] Environmental Protection will be chaired with appointees picked by Vee or the Ministry of Health at Vee's discretion.
    -[X] Responsibilities include monitoring and investigating pollution
    --[X] When the inevitable objections come: "I'm sure the Valyrians thought that the possible consequences of harnessing the primordial power of the deep earth were very exaggerated, when Diviners from the Priesthood attempted to ascertain what would happen should the worst occur."
    --[X] "Should it be considered, then, that since it took thousands of years for it to finally happen, those who foist off the calamity to befall their descendants should jump at every opportunity even when the evidence provided to them could have been forewarned far in advance?"
    --[X] Nod at your Herald, who repeats the refrain, "Hail to the Imperator, may He reign twice ten thousand years and more!"
    --[X] "I'd like my realm to have clear skies and breathable air by then."
 
Part MMMDCCCLII: Clearing the Air
Clearing the Air

Fourteenth Day of the Tenth Month 294 AC

It is at first odd to see Howland Reed argue with Soft Strider, the short slight crannogman meeting the deep green eyes of the even shorter and slighter Singer with confusion that shades more and more into anger as she remains unswayed by his arguments. But then what is distant kinship to present obligation?

Seeing no reason to allow it to get more heated you call a halt to the debate. "We have heard enough to render a judgement in this matter. Standards must be set for the use of coal and other substances that can poison the air." You try to throw a proverbial bone to Duke Reed. "Commercial and non-commercial standards will of course be different, with the latter being more reasonable to the means of individual citizens. We shall attempt to make these applications cheaper and safer in time, though for now restraint is the wiser course."

The objections are quick and many-sided, from Wyman Manderly pointing out that he has heard of many dying of the cold and few indeed who died of 'a bit of soot in the air'. Lord Stark is even more vehement in bringing out the dangers of winter to come and cold as the weapon of the enemy, but it is the Duke of the Neck who speaks last in somber measured tones.

"Your Majesty, I must confess I have made no great study of this, I have questioned no alchemists on the matter for even in my brief time spent in the cities of the south I have seen no great harm towards those who spend time near a blaksmith's forge. Indeed, if we were to measure the health of those who breathe in this dust of which you are so concerned by the people who already do it then I would say there is nothing at all to fear." The smile is a van one, the attempt at humor quickly fading. "Your Majesty, my people are suffering now from those things of which we have suffered since time out of mind, the bite of hunger and of illness. There are some here who have been known to call the crannogmen 'savages' and frog eaters, and I say to you now any anger I may have felt towards those insults has long since faded before a greater fear."

He pauses a moment and looks around the chamber, in particular at his fellow northern lords and those few Voices of the North which had already taken their seats, from the Whitelands to the Dreadlands. "I fear that in this world changing ever swifter, growing in wealth and in people, we shall be left utterly behind and make truth of insult. I must confess that besides that the concern of clean air in the decades and centuries to come do not ring as loudly in my ears, for to them surely we will have decades and centuries to solve it."

"I'm certain the Valyrians thought that the possible consequences of harnessing the primordial power of the deep earth were of no great import, when Diviners from the Ppiesthood attempted to ascertain what would happen should the worst occur," you counter. You have seen those days, you have dreamed them, you have woken in a cold sweat still gripped with the horror of their knowing. "Should it be considered, then, that since it took thousands of years for it to finally happen, those who foist off the calamity to befall their descendants should jump at every such opportunity, even when evidence provided to them could have had themselves considered forewarned, far in advance?"

Doran Martell is currently smiling behind his hand at the rather didactic speech, though the northern lords do not seem convinced, at least most of them do not. You still struggle to tell what lies behind Roose Bolton's pale gaze.

"To that we would answer no, because by the time one cannot any longer ignore the cost of their actions, likely in the best case, counter-acting these effects would face stiff resistance to change, due to over-dependency and malignant self-interest. Or else it would already be too late to do anything to prevent those harmful effects, and would in essence be more a matter of preserving a few tattered scraps, which guarantees more conflict."

A nod to the Herald prompts the familiar declaration. "Hail to the Imperator, may He reign twice ten thousand years and more!"

"I would rather have clear skies and breathable air by then," you finish, prompting a ripple of amusement through the joint session of the Curia.

Duke Howland Reed still is not laughing.

***​

You meet with Lord Bolton, as leader of the Eithur Fulka, later that day to learn more of the matter. While you are resolute in your decision to preserve the future against the shortsighted depredations of the present you do not wish to see a a conflict emerge with the Northern Lords and Voices over this.

"Duke Reed saw great promise in the coal deposit Your Majesty, all the more so as he is not the only lord to have found riches burred n his lands. Plans are underway from Last Hearth to the Winterlands to Bear Island to take advantage of newly divined seams and tireless dead miners in order to develop and enrich our lands," The Leech Lord explains over a cup of still steaming untouched tea. "I must confess no small amount of sympathy towards his concerns, for they are ones the whole of the North shares, of being washed away by the tides of time, which is a greater concern in lands as poor in people and other resources those of the Neck."

"I understand his concerns, truly I do," you reply in all honesty. "Yet the market is a hungry beast and a jealous one. If restrictions are not placed from the start, then it will be all the harder to impose them effectively and uniformly. This is a matter that impacts the whole of the Imperium, not merely the Neck or even the North."

"I shall do what I can to ensure that this is heard and understood in full among those who need to hear it," the pale lord replies. "If I might be so bold as to make a suggestion on the matter though. Starting a few coal-burning projects, with adequate purification methods will go a long way towards showing commitment in the eyes of Dukes Reed and Manderly."

"White Harbor was meant to be the first major market for coal from the Neck?" you prompt.

"Yes, though talks were in progress with Winterfell and with me," he confirms and with that no more needs be said on the matter. He had been silent in open session and was being helpful now, seeking favor and doing a good job of it too.

OOC: And done, Reed and Manderly are not that happy if you guys, but Bolton as Faction leader has promised to try to smooth things over. I hope the little dive into politics as more than simple power blocks has proven interesting.
 
Last edited:
XP from taking the Forge:
Zherys - Levels up
Viserys - 1350
Dany and Ser Richard - 1833 XP
Vee, Garin Waymar - 2200

Since there is no vote on the last update you guys can vote on the level up, or possibly level ups if Zherys is not the only one who gets there.
 
Clearing the Air

Fourteenth Day of the Tenth Month 294 AC

It is at first odd to see Howland Reed argue with Soft Strider, the short, slight crannogman meeting the deep green eyes of the even shorter and slighter Singer with confusion that shades more and more into anger as she remains unswayed by his arguments. But then what is distant kinship to present obligation?

Seeing no reason to allow it to get more heated, you call a halt to the debate. "We have heard enough to render a judgement in this matter. Standards must be set for the use of coal and other substances that can poison the air." You try to throw a proverbial bone to Duke Reed. "Commercial and non-commercial standards will, of course, be different, with the latter being more reasonable to the means of individual citizens. We shall attempt to make these applications cheaper and safer in time, though for now restraint is the wiser course."

The objections are quick and many-sided, from Wyman Manderly pointing out that he has heard of many dying of the cold and few indeed who died of 'a bit of soot in the air'. Lord Stark is even more vehement in bringing out the dangers of winter to come and cold as the weapon of the enemy, but it is the Duke of the Neck who speaks last in somber measured tones.

"Your Majesty, I must confess I have made no great study of this, I have questioned no alchemists on the matter for even in my brief time spent in the cities of the south, I have seen no great harm towards those who spend time near a blaksmith's forge. Indeed, if we were to measure the health of those who breathe in this dust of which you are so concerned by the people who already do it, then I would say there is nothing at all to fear." The smile is a wane one, the attempt at humor quickly fading. "Your Majesty, my people are suffering now from those things of which we have suffered since time out of mind, the bite of hunger and of illness. There are some here who have been known to call the crannogmen 'savages' and frog eaters, and I say to you now any anger I may have felt towards those insults has long since faded before a greater fear."

He pauses a moment and looks around the chamber, in particular at his fellow northern lords and those few Voices of the North which had already taken their seats, from the Whitelands to the Dreadlands. "I fear that in this world changing ever swifter, growing in wealth and in people, we shall be left utterly behind and make truth of insult. I must confess that beside that fear, the concern of clean air in the decades and centuries to come does not ring as loudly in my ears, for to them surely we will have decades and centuries to solve it."

"I'm certain the Valyrians thought that the possible consequences of harnessing the primordial power of the deep earth were of no great import, when Diviners from the Priesthood attempted to ascertain what would happen should the worst occur," you counter. You have seen those days, you have dreamed them, you have woken in a cold sweat still gripped with the horror of their knowing. "Should it be considered, then, that since it took thousands of years for it to finally happen, those who foist off the calamity to befall their descendants should jump at every such opportunity, even when evidence provided to them could have had themselves considered forewarned, far in advance?"

Doran Martell is currently smiling behind his hand at the rather didactic speech, though the northern lords do not seem convinced, at least most of them do not. You still struggle to tell what lies behind Roose Bolton's pale gaze.

"To that we would answer no, because by the time one cannot any longer ignore the cost of their actions, likely in the best case, counter-acting these effects would face stiff resistance to change, due to over-dependency and malignant self-interest. Or else it would already be too late to do anything to prevent those harmful effects, and would in essence be more a matter of preserving a few tattered scraps, which guarantees more conflict."

A nod to the Herald prompts the familiar declaration. "Hail to the Imperator, may He reign twice ten thousand years and more!"

"I would rather have clear skies and breathable air by then," you finish, prompting a ripple of amusement through the joint session of the Curia.

Duke Howland Reed still is not laughing.

***​

You meet with Lord Bolton, as leader of the Eithur Fulka, later that day to learn more of the matter. While you are resolute in your decision to preserve the future against the shortsighted depredations of the present, you do not wish to see a a conflict emerge with the Northern Lords and Voices over this.

"Duke Reed saw great promise in the coal deposit Your Majesty, all the more so as he is not the only lord to have found riches burred in his lands. Plans are underway from Last Hearth to the Winterlands to Bear Island to take advantage of newly divined seams and tireless dead miners in order to develop and enrich our lands," The Leech Lord explains over a cup of still steaming but untouched tea. "I must confess no small amount of sympathy towards his concerns, for they are ones the whole of the North shares, of being washed away by the tides of time, which is a greater concern in lands as poor in people and other resources those of the Neck."

"I understand his concerns, truly I do," you reply in all honesty. "Yet the market is a hungry beast and a jealous one. If restrictions are not placed from the start, then it will be all the harder to impose them effectively and uniformly. This is a matter that impacts the whole of the Imperium, not merely the Neck or even the North."

"I shall do what I can to ensure that this is heard and understood in full among those who need to hear it," the pale lord replies, "though if I might be so bold as to make a suggestion on the matter? Starting a few coal-burning projects, with adequate purification methods will go a long way towards showing commitment in the eyes of Dukes Reed and Manderly."

"White Harbor was meant to be the first major market for coal from the Neck?" you prompt.

"Yes, though talks were in progress with Winterfell and with me," he confirms, and with that no more needs be said on the matter. He had been silent in open session and was being helpful now, seeking favor and doing a good job of it too.

OOC: And done, Reed and Manderly are not that happy if you guys, but Bolton as Faction leader has promised to try to smooth things over. I hope the little dive into politics as more than simple power blocks has proven interesting.
Made some additional edits to the chapter.

I don't like crushing Reed's hopes like this, but I've seen pictures of London from back when it was a soot-stained blight. I don't want that for anywhere in the Imperium.
 
Viserys doesn't level (although @Goldfish needs to adjust the XP for next level on his sheet), Daenerys and Richard are miles away from leveling, Garin almost levels but not quite, and Waymar and Vee aren't quite there yet either.

Meanwhile Zherys' sheet is here. @Goldfish, the website where his PrC was seems to have gone down. Here is an alternative link on webarchive (I'm not sure how official the Pathfinder update he's using is, but seeing as for some reason he isn't using the 3.5 version of the PrC so we can't just casually google it again).
As Zherys hits level 18, he gets 9ths! He also gets a feat.

My suggestion (in bad formatting because Goldfish will probably make his own vote in a few minutes anyway):
  • Give him another Loremaster level (Loremaster 6) for the ability to automatically identify magic items
  • He gets 4+Int (+1 for human) skill points. I'd suggest keeping his maxxed skills maxxed, and putting all the rest in Knowledge (the planes) as he's mostly been on-screen for planar stuff recently.
  • His spells per day increase, but the only spell he learns is one 9th-level spell. I suggest Absorption (to fit with his overall approach to magic), or perhaps Time Stop.
  • He gets a feat. He's already got a lot of metamagic, but he doesn't have Rapid Metamagic. Otherwise I'd suggest Boost Spell Resistance, to improve his Incantifier ability to clown on weaker spellcasters. But SR 27 still isn't great at his level... Maybe he could take Boost Spell Resistance and take his final levels in Uncanny Trickster, to keep advancing Incantifier and further raise his SR?
 
XP from taking the Forge:
Zherys - Levels up
Viserys - 1350
Dany and Ser Richard - 1833 XP
Vee, Garin Waymar - 2200

Since there is no vote on the last update you guys can vote on the level up, or possibly level ups if Zherys is not the only one who gets there.
I've updated everyone's XP totals. No other level ups apart from Zherys, but Garin is very close.

Zherys level up vote incoming.
 
Meanwhile Zherys' sheet is here. @Goldfish, the website where his PrC was seems to have gone down. Here is an alternative link on webarchive (I'm not sure how official the Pathfinder update he's using is, but seeing as for some reason he isn't using the 3.5 version of the PrC so we can't just casually google it again).
As Zherys hits level 18, he gets 9ths! He also gets a feat.

My suggestion (in bad formatting because Goldfish will probably make his own vote in a few minutes anyway):
  • Give him another Loremaster level (Loremaster 6) for the ability to automatically identify magic items
  • He gets 4+Int (+1 for human) skill points. I'd suggest keeping his maxxed skills maxxed, and putting all the rest in Knowledge (the planes) as he's mostly been on-screen for planar stuff recently.
  • His spells per day increase, but the only spell he learns is one 9th-level spell. I suggest Absorption (to fit with his overall approach to magic), or perhaps Time Stop.
  • He gets a feat. He's already got a lot of metamagic, but he doesn't have Rapid Metamagic. Otherwise I'd suggest Boost Spell Resistance, to improve his Incantifier ability to clown on weaker spellcasters. But SR 27 still isn't great at his level... Maybe he could take Boost Spell Resistance and take his final levels in Uncanny Trickster, to keep advancing Incantifier and further raise his SR?
Thanks, Talon. Didn't realize that link was broken.

I agree about Rapid Metamagic being the way to go for his last feat. I definitely felt its absence when planning his recent combat actions.

Absorption would be a solid spell for him, it just doesn't really feel all that spectacular for his first 9th level spell, IMO (not counting Dominate Monster, which he learns automatically due to his bloodline). Time Stop would be great, of course, and I'm not against it if ya'll want him to learn it. We've certainly made good use of it for ourselves, at least when the situation allowed for it.

Given Zhery's character, however, especially his background and origin, I think Dragonshape would be really fitting for him. Being able to turn into a Mature Red Dragon, even temporarily, would be a great personal achievement for him, plus it's a really good combat buff.

[X] Zherys Level Up
-[X] Class: +1 Loremaster
-[X] Feat: Rapid Metamagic
-[X] Skills (8 points): +1 Concentration, +1 Diplomacy, +1 Knowledge (Arcana), +1 Sense Motive, +1 Spellcraft, +3 Knowledge (The Planes)
-[X] Spells
--[X] 9th Level: Dragonshape
 
Nopeforge mechanics, please!

If there's a way to accelerate pollution eater research, that's where we will find it. It will be... Tentacular!
 
Lord Stark is even more vehement in bringing out the dangers of winter to come and cold as the weapon of the enemy, but it is the Duke of the Neck who speaks last in somber measured tones.
I swear to god, somewhere in the thread somebody suggested some kind of magical hand warmer that was both dirt cheap and easy to produce.

Maybe as a stopgap we can pay for the North to get those statues like we gave the Wall which give people Endure Elements on command? Obviously not every village is going to get them and the cities will need more than one to be effective, but it's something.
 
I swear to god, somewhere in the thread somebody suggested some kind of magical hand warmer that was both dirt cheap and easy to produce.

Maybe as a stopgap we can pay for the North to get those statues like we gave the Wall which give people Endure Elements on command? Obviously not every village is going to get them and the cities will need more than one to be effective, but it's something.
A command-activated Endure Elements statue only costs 180 IM to enchant. That's not completely trivial, but it's cheap enough that we could begin producing them in significant numbers without blinking. One would be able to affect up to 600 people per hour, or 14,400 per day if used at absolute maximum capacity. The only place where one such statue wouldn't be enough for the entire populace of a settlement in the North would be White Harbor, I think?
 
A command-activated Endure Elements statue only costs 180 IM to enchant. That's not completely trivial, but it's cheap enough that we could begin producing them in significant numbers without blinking. One would be able to affect up to 600 people per hour, or 14,400 per day if used at absolute maximum capacity. The only place where one such statue wouldn't be enough for the entire populace of a settlement in the North would be White Harbor, I think?
Bigger question is how this would be represented in the new system. @Azel @DragonParadox?

But yeah, definitely worth doing as an olive branch. Also just so citizens quit freezing to death.
 
Bigger question is how this would be represented in the new system. @Azel @DragonParadox?

But yeah, definitely worth doing as an olive branch. Also just so citizens quit freezing to death.

This does not scale well when you are talking about populations of hundreds of thousands unfortunately. The Wall by contrast to even a small city is tinny in terms of population.

I know it is hard to keep the scale of things in mind, I did the same in the old days when I looked at the one healing tree in SD and treated it as if it could meaningfully impact a population of tens of thousands.

In conclusion though you could make those statues in theory they would not be enough of them to have a major impact without really cutting into your resources. As a general rule magi-tech scales better than pure magic, that is why cleaning the soot out of the air is the solution that first came to mind.
 
How the hell is Boltons bluff enough to not be fully transparent to us.what level is he.

Also we can just create a plant creature that can reproduce and cast some minor magic like warmth or something.

If it is hard to scale magic and magic tech to that scale, just fall back on the tried and true method of nature.

I have always felt that the danger of self replicating creature is overblown, especially minor one since we can just divine the future and do a ritual or two to kill them off if need be
 
How the hell is Boltons bluff enough to not be fully transparent to us.what level is he.

Also we can just create a plant creature that can reproduce and cast some minor magic like warmth or something.

If it is hard to scale magic and magic tech to that scale, just fall back on the tried and true method of nature.

I have always felt that the danger of self replicating creature is overblown, especially minor one since we can just divine the future and do a ritual or two to kill them off if need be

Bolton is very hard to read because he does not have many tells. To put this into perspective, you can be an expert decoder, if you have just three syllables in front of you there is no way you are getting the whole language.
 
Interlude MCCXXIII: Managing Expectations
Managing Expectations

Twentieth Day of the Tenth Month 294 AC

Henrik the Younger, once maester Henrick, at times marveled at the sight outside his window. Oh, not at the enormous tree tall as a pillar of white and red piercing the sky, nor at the clouds being shepherded across the sky like placid sheep by a spirit some worshiped at a god. No, he marveled at the fate that had lead him to this city and this task after he had left Oldtown in haste, hands trembling in terror, hoping against hope that the new Seneschal of the Citadel would not follow him, that he would not have to speak to the madman who had destroyed the order.

With the benefit of hindsight of course he would be amazed if Qyburn even knew his name, much less carried a grudge against a man who had been a glorified secretary for Archmaester Prestan. What secrets did he know that other more senior members of his order who had seemingly vanished without a trace did not?

It had only been in the aftermath of his panicked flight that he realized his coin would not last him more than a month or two of decent living, after which he had but a scribe's meager skills to offer in taverns and alehouses to unlettered oafs. And that would likely have been his fate if he had not spotted a request for 'lettered folk, knowing both the Common Tongue and High Valyrain' literally nailed to the wall outside the inn he was staying in. From there it had been a winding but ever climbing road to realizing that as terrifying as the specter of the Dragon still loomed in his thoughts the realm he was building was far from the tyrannical mageocracy rumor had painted it as.

Either that or I'm a tyrant's lackey who finds comfort in it. Henrik had read enough of history to know that was very much an option, but he did not let it bother him overmuch. If he had been bold and willing to gamble with his life he would have taken on a knight's surcoat, not a maester's robes. Still, he had been surprised when he had been promoted to the rank of Adjunct Director of the new office of Land Management, an institution that would be handling more public wealth in the form of land grants than he could even really imagine. True, even among his peers the former maester had been well-known for his knowledge of heraldry and easy way with the highborn, yet he could not help but wonder if they knew he had ran from Oltdown so he asked around, particularly of his new superior.

***​

The answer came the next day in the form of a raven knocking on the window of his apartment bearing the seal of the book and sword.

'You have passed the background check with no issue. Relocating from one city within the Imperium is of no concern to us or to His Majesty.' It took two stiff drinks to make his hands stop shaking, but by the third one he was toasting the wall, and any unseen watchers nearby. He had gotten the job after all, more prestigious and better paying than anything he had ever had in his life. Without the weight of the chain around his neck he could make a new life here, perhaps even start a family. A few years from now he might even tell the story of his flight as amusing after dinner conversation... or maybe a few decades. For now he had work to do, assessments to write on what criteria would be reasonable and useful to use for each marchland.

Office of Land Management: 80 (Success)

What border lands do you open for knightly land grants?

[] The Old Rhoynar Lands

[] The Sarnory Lands

[] The Valyrian Borders

[] Sothoryos

[] Write in


OOC: The more you open the more the nobility will like you, however if you open too many dangerous places and their children start dying in job lots that goodwill will turn sour fast.
 
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