Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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Here is the quote form the discord when mochinator asked if the FDG could be the new Desert Power
Occi just said the offer would be made

Not that it would be accepted

Instead, he said that the Flood Dragons could at best be Elders which implies they'd possibly be opened to such a thing, else, why mention it.
Because he'd been asked on the subject dozens of times over the course of the day about it?
 
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I agree that the Gang are a loose pile of sand which makes it perfect. We're looking for an excuse to be invited into an attack, period. Everything else is just fortunate happenstance of being the closest power to a decapitated territory.
I'm not saying they're bad at governance, I'm saying that governance is literally not part of what they do. They don't govern anything, if I were to liken them to any kind of society it would be… minarchist, I guess? In that there is hierarchy but no state? But that doesn't fit well either because again, they aren't a nation.

We can use them as part of our justification for war without doing a needlessly complicated scheme with who owns the land and who manages what. They don't want the land, they have no incentive to own the land. Hell, the vast majority of them already have homes in other factions' lands. They're a criminal network who meet up for big jobs, but a lot of the time they're doing their own thing or operating as small local gangs.
 
Occi just said the offer would be made

Not that it would be accepted

It's still more than what you have to support your certitude that the FDG would NEVER want land.

If such a thing was so clear cut, it would have been much simpler and clearer for Occi to just say : "The FDG would never take land, they are wanderers to the core." It would have cut the argument to the core.

It not like it's a big secret.
 
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It's still more than what you have to support your certitude that the FDG would NEVER want land.
Sure, if you want to believe that's the case rather than looking at the character of their faction head and asking yourself if they're the type that wants land to settle down in.

But I'm not the one trawling through discord quotes almost half a year old for a vague "eh maybe" to justify why you can force something on someone in contradiction of their presented character

When it's not even necessary in the first place for the sake of buttressing and justifying another position that is itself specious and not really needed either.
 
The only problem now is "Do the Flood dragons have young masters?". We need someone who can go in an credible say "Don't you know who I am!" And generally make an ass of themselves until the Jingshen finally have enough and retaliate. It is a dangerous job with a very specific skill set. LST don't always work in universe.
I mean, depending on when this is, if its after turn 11, the Ninth Prince is still technically a flood dragon, and stuff like this is his specialty
 
The most prominent thing that comes to mind when I'm thinking about pretext is that different methods would warrant different levels of desire to uncover the truth from SPS.

If we claim that Jingshen invaded us first, razed one fort and in retaliation we wiped them from the map, they will be all up in our business all day every day.

On the other hand, if Manuel produces evidence that Jingshen were undermining the FDG long term, tried to sabotage Yao's tribulation and were messing with her while she guarded the Road, she suddenly has an excuse to "trade pointers" with Jiao . . . and what would you know, big surprise, the old snake was waiting to attack in ambush. Luckily, heroic Manuel was ready to intervene. Of course, he merely attended as a deterrent, but after barely trading a few hits, old Jingshen keeled over from advanced age. Much coincidence, very tragedy. Yao, suddenly in possession of vast amounts of land and unwilling to settle down as an administrator, sold the land to the Golden Devils for resources to rebuild the gang and jump right back into the Battlefield conflict.

If I'm reading the second scenario as SPS and seeing resources pour into the Battlefield more efficiently than ever, I'm thinking, welp, that's what must have happened.
 
When it's not even necessary in the first place for the sake of buttressing and justifying another position that is itself specious and not really needed either.

That's pretty much what you're doing by saying (without supporting evidence) that the FDG wouldn't be willing to take land in order to support your point of taking the land directly.

I do think there are arguments to be made for conquering the land ourselves (although I wouldn't vote for it personally unless the other option is worst). I don't the unsupported claim that Lady Yao wouldn't want land is one of them.

It's not like the Flood Dragon Gang are so loved that they had such an opportunity offered to them in the past (that we know of). Sure it could be they wouldn't want it... it also could be they just never had the option.
 
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No it isnt?

I apologize. But I don't engage with people projecting at me in attempts at whataboutism.

Look, closing the discussion is probably for the best.

Either way, if there is no chance Jingshen would take the land of course we can't give it to them.

You said they wouldn't, I went to the trouble to find a quote that implies it's at least possible.

You could have just said : "Hey, maybe they would take the land if we offered, maybe not. I still don't agree we should do it for other reasons."

Anyway, have a nice night and sorry if I came out rude.
 
I don't recall any treaty with the Devil Bees. It was talking about Od Cannibal not returning to the desert personally for 200 yeas, we never opened diplomacy with the Devil Bees since they were still in a civil war till Diaxiang neatly solved it.

Also @occipitallobe did Sun Diaxiang swear a promise not to return under binding oath, or was it just empty promise/platitude?

A binding oath, enforced by a magical treasure.

I have to ask @occipitallobe , is Heraclius Staurakius still alive and is there ANY way we could get him to accept such a boon?

Because it seems to me that keeping our old general would at the very least have some advantages, even if he wouldn't make for a perfect Nascent Soul candidate...

Heraclius quietly went off to die somewhere just before this was received.

In out-of-character terms, I felt that it was too obvious a choice (save our guy!) if the option was given.

@occipitallobe - is this a thing? Does Manuel have reason to believe that Kleisthenes would have a particularly hard time of trying to make Nascent, as compared to the other two Great Circle CF elders?

This is exceptionally difficult to know. From Manuel's perspective, they have sufficiently limited Dao (insofar as this means their personal philosophy and attempt to understand the ultimate truth that underlies the universe) that they should all be able to reach Nascent Soul in theory. But predicting Nascent Soul tribulation success is hard - the shattering rate is fairly low (being able to shatter your Core and reject everything you've built up for centuries is incredibly hard, one in ten Great Circles can ever reach that level), and even among those who shatter their Cores successfully, transcending the tribulation is no more than one in five.

That's not realistic at all.

The Flood Dragons are wandering cultivators from the start. They straight up dont hold land. The last time we had this discussion about having new territories it wasnt even an option.



Then you're welcome to make that argument and we'll see how many agree with that perspective

It's realistic perhaps as a diplomatic fig leaf. You're not going to get Yao Zhihao to rule a territory in person, but it's theoretically possible to get her to rule one in name as a favour. In practice this would mean Golden Devil administrators, civilians, etc, etc, etc all of whom were "guest elders" for the Flood Dragons. It wouldn't make a difference against a Righteous Path not in the middle of a desperate set of battles at all, but against one that really needs the Spirit Stones to flow and is facing a major threat? Maybe.

In a time of Righteous Strength the answer would be a major coalition boiling across the mountains and putting the Devils into the ground permanently.

In a time of weakness, they would probably find massive bribery plus a plausible reason to ignore the conquest sufficient.

That does, however, presuppose a short victorious war which is over by Christmas, so to speak. If the Jingshen War became a boiling mess which bogged down Spirit Stone supply for many decades, the Righteous Path might see redeploying Nascents to open the Scorpion Road back up and secure their supplies a necessity.
 
It's realistic perhaps as a diplomatic fig leaf. You're not going to get Yao Zhihao to rule a territory in person, but it's theoretically possible to get her to rule one in name as a favour. In practice this would mean Golden Devil administrators, civilians, etc, etc, etc all of whom were "guest elders" for the Flood Dragons. It wouldn't make a difference against a Righteous Path not in the middle of a desperate set of battles at all, but against one that really needs the Spirit Stones to flow and is facing a major threat? Maybe.
Eh.

Fig leaf's about tribute and essentially acting as a consistent source of material for the Flood Dragons tie them more tightly to us. So long as we dont try and force actually settling the land on them then it's fine to maintain a polite fiction.

I'm sure we can dig up a sufficient bribe


That does, however, presuppose a short victorious war which is over by Christmas, so to speak. If the Jingshen War became a boiling mess which bogged down Spirit Stone supply for many decades, the Righteous Path might see redeploying Nascents to open the Scorpion Road back up and secure their supplies a necessity.
That'll come down to the opening moments and depend heavily on how we move into it.

If we lucksack into having greater numbers of Nascents from the outset, then its not impossible for us to maintain some level of exporting by virtue of offering the Righteous Powers the Jingshens accumulated wealth.

It just comes down to how we engage the campaign from the start and the Jingshens ability to turn the fighting into a slog. If we slip past their prepared nooses we can win quickly by forcing multiple Nascent Bowls early and bleed them dry outside of them.

If we don't then we would have to devote our Nascents to clearing the way of prepared defenses like Dixiang was trying to do in the latter parts of the Cannibal War.
 
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Yeah, I think they'd accept it if we pulled this off before Jingshen uses their Nascent Fund, if we then divert that Nascent Fund as a 'Generous Donation'.

Depending on how Manuel's moneymaking this turn goes, having a Nascent Soul Tribulation Treasure on top of it might be the icing on the cake.

But that being said, it is some top tier fuckery that's utterly dependent on us steamrolling Jingshen, which is easier said than done. They're still a Great Power after all.
 
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But that being said, it is some top tier fuckery that's utterly dependent on us steamrolling Jingshen, which is easier said than
Thankfully we've got a potential insertion point handy, and they dont build up defensive infrastructure remotely as swiftly as we do

Yaos involvement also gives us the political cover to take the "initiative" in the fight. A lot comes down to how the rest of this turn pans out.
 
Liu Mang 2 - The Bandit, Liu Mang, Joins The Golden Devils!
The Bandit, Liu Mang, Joins The Golden Devils!

His head throbbed dully, a remnant of a most inglorious attempt to join the Flood Dragons a couple days back. While trying and failing to block the light from filtering past the window and his fingers to sear his brain, Liu Mang rose from his bed in slight stupor, rubbing his parched throat and hand searching for a glass of water he'd long learned to keep beside his resting zones to deal with the early morning heat.

Even with the headache and the stretching, Liu's mind wandered to the moment he was unceremoniously thrown in front of the Clan Leader, Grand Elder Manuel Konstantinos, and inducted into the Golden Devils. The crotchety old man spoke at length about some sort of Bronze blood, how it was extremely weak within him and thus only was given a small portion of their physiology, or something like that. How it was necessary to be protected by the many, many arrays that they've come to develop.

And how the Clan Leader offered to infuse some into him.

Liu was perturbed to accept the deal, much to the surprise of the two Nascent Souls.

"After all, if I heard these bells that only happen every 100 years, doesn't it mean I've got enough to join already?"

His excuse was flimsy, for the moment, but Manuel stroked his beard in thought, while Madam Yao started to stomp her way to him in an effort to make him see reason. A stringy arm stopped her, as if an ant was stopping an elephant, and she backed off petulantly as the clan Leader addressed his question.

"Possibly. Suppose we should test it."

All of a sudden, various lines that were on the wall started shining, pulsing bright for a moment. Two. Three.

And then they died down, and as swiftly as the light came so did the shadows return.

"So, does that mean I've got enough of the clan's blood in me to come and go?" Liu questioned in discomfort, as the light-show had brought back the headache in full force.

"But of course." Manuel smirked at the new Golden Devil.

"After all, you're still alive, are you not?"

… … …

As much as he appreciated the joke after the fact, his eyes turned into pinpricks at the proclamation and Liu found it much harder to focus on the following hours upon hours of paperwork and oaths.

It probably didn't help that Madam Yao found the whole turn of events a total riot, and was laughing at him from the side.

But once the papers were signed in blood and the oaths were sworn upon his soul, the poor, poor young Liu was once more hefted up on Madam Yao's firm shoulder, she and Manuel jumped out of the building and raced in minutes towards two great towers… and a giant bronze gate, spanning a third of the mountainside, that Liu was forced to crane his neck to try and fail to see the top of.

Not that being on a shoulder helped matters, even as he valiantly but fruitlessly tried and failed to wiggle himself off.

This drew a chuckle out of Yao, as she drawled to him.

"Might not wanna get off the ride just yet, there's one last jump ya know!"

Liu went stiller than dead, even as he knew deep inside what she meant he had to make sure.

"… going up?"

The Draconic grin was back in full force.

"Going up!"

*insert Goofy scream as they're both catapulted up to the top of the gate in one leap*

Having saluted a couple of the guards and wardens places to maintain the wall, Madam Yao finally released her grip on Liu Mang. It hadn't been a single second passed that he dropped on the wall's bronze floor tried to regain a minimum semblance of dignity by shuffling clothes and stretching a bit.

Judging by the nearest chuckles, and a loud one belonging to whom-shall-not-be-named, he failed.

Sighing softly, Liu combed the last of his hair out of his face, before walking beside the she-Devil.

"Soooooo…" "Soooooooooooo…"

He wasn't gonna give her the satisfaction.

He wasn't.

"Why are we up here, exactly?"

She smiled as the question, slamming her arm around his shoulder and leading him to the other end of the wall.

"Well, you see, you just went and joined one of the best places ever, and it wouldn't do you any good to just be thrown into the training pits without seeing both a tad of what you fight for, and the kind of people that'll now stand at your side."

Having already tried and failed multiple times to dislodge himself of his newest predicament today, Liu gave it one small try before just letting himself be dragged to the other side of the wall.

"So, what, a demonstration of sorts? Not gonna lie, I… woah."

He couldn't help the exclamation that rose from his surprise.

After all, it wasn't every day one got to see verdant farmlands such as these in the middle of the desert. Madam Yao released him then, and he used the opportunity to dash to the desert edge of the wall and back, incredulous.

"How?"

Yao gave a shrug.

"Don't know the exact details, myself. Something about the mountains just makes the land in the middle extremely good for cultivation, and the wall keeps the one side that wasn't quite closed enough to keep the Qi in."

The adrenaline from the jump still hasn't worn off, so the excitement just added to the mystique this impressionable Liu was feeling.

"And is that where I'll be training then?"

Just beyond the lands of flowing green and yellow rose a bronze-golden palace, eclipsing the majority of the other buildings beside it, under which one could make many people leaving and entering in a wild rush.

Along with the occasional one that would then dash straight over them, and Liu had to force himself not to stare at.

"Why indeed, you have a good eye."

While he couldn't help the shiver, he would not give them the satisfaction.

"Elder." Liu turned and bowed, as the Grand Elder made his way to the duo.

"That which you have pointed to is the Eight-Hundred and Eighty-Hundred Technique Cultivation Palace. It aids in the finding and teaching of combat techniques that would support our Formation arts as our apprentices and fellow cultivators rise through the Qi Condensation and Formation Establishment Realms. Through it one can increase their power and knowledge, their skills in battle, and grow stronger for the Clan."

The elder stared at the building that had cost him almost too much for a couple seconds longer than necessary, before turning to walk towards the mountainside

"Now, come. It is about time."

Liu pulled his shoulders up and squared out, and followed slowly behind the two nascent soul cultivators with a pep in his step, wanting to see what lay in store. There was none of the talking and joking of before, though, even as he tried and failed to start a conversation. And the more they walked along the bronze wall, the more he could see those that he walked past acting respectful and even a couple that were crying in mourning, which in turn cooled his expectations as to what was coming next.

But even then Liu wasn't ready for the sight that they came to.

A loose circle of guards blocked the way of a raging, bawling teen, no older than he and yet clearly wanting to go past the ones holding him tightly… and behind which lay a bleeding man.

The body was thin, almost a corpse, and covered in deep cuts that wouldn't stop bleeding. A gaunt face riddled with tears of blood, empty sockets where once eyes laid. One could see bone behind the meat, with the right angle, and the blood flowed freely. Green and bronze hues turned muddy from the flow of blood.

Liu tried to scream, to ask, to get an explanation as to what in the damned hells he was seeing… but no words would come out.

He looked up from the corpse only to see Manuel standing right in front of him, once again having popped so close that he filled his entire view with no sound whatsoever, and the old bastard placed a single finger over his lips.

Liu really, really wanted to try and bite it.

"Hush, boy. Listen, and learn."

… … …

It had been hours, and indeed Liu listened, and learned some of what was going on.

Liu had been surprised to discover that what had appeared to be a corpse being showcased for punishment was actually someone still alive. His name was Heraclius. The child earlier was his nephew or somesuch.

And apparently, he was whose blood would fortify Liu's bloodline, as well as something about strengthening the wall. As time passed, numerous were the men and women that came by to say goodbye. Some had cried. Some had laughed. But everyone had paid their respects, as if bleeding over the wall was an act to be respected.

But many more yet just stuck around, standing or leaning around, a couple were even playing Gambit in a nook.

Until the body started shining hues of bronze and verdant gold, and all came to surround the circle.

To pay their last respects.

The wall hummed, and from it rose a mote of light.

And from the light came the voices.

"Yours… nay, ours, is the Blood of Bronze, the greatest, the Imperial Optimatoi! Of us is asked the greatest of tasks, the greatest demands, the greatest tributes. We are the ones that shall stand where others fall, and we shall succeed where others would fail. To live is to give service to the Clan, whom in turn protects us, shelters us, and helps us grow."

The voices grew tempestuous. Like the eye of the storm, or the darkness in the abyss, Liu couldn't help but be drawn in it, seek shelter within from the unending pressure outside. Even as his body faltered and dropped to his knees, even as sweat poured down and his headaches returned. Even as some of the bronze flowed around him, through him, and stayed within.

As if it had found purpose once more.

… … …

To Liu's whole being, there was only the bronze light.

Within it, stood tall the wisps of men long gone that shall return should danger come to Dawn Fortress.

The Wall's Guardians.

"The Golden Devils were there, the first boots on the war front when the Jin Empire faced the Abyssals, or Legions scouring the enemy from the face of the Seas at every turn. We were there, when the thrice-damned Rite of Karmic Purification came first to claim our lives, our future, and later even with the Heavens' support it has failed."

They spoke, and Liu listened.

He could see through the light, as the soldiers stomped along with the voices.

And how some of them would nod towards Grand Elder Manuel.

"In thanks of the sacrifices of our Ancestors, we stand tall, the Bronze blood that flows through us all a reward for the ages to come! In thanks of the sacrifice of the generations that came before, shall live generations that shall come to be after us! The greatness of the Best Men lies deep in your blood. Grasp it! And never let go."

The winds died.

The pressure ceased.

And the world came once more to be.

"That, is what means to be a Golden Devil." An old hand patted Liu's head, even as the last flakes that made the martyr's greenish-bronze body flowed into the greater cracks that laid where the body once was. And when the last bit of light when through, so too did the cracks close, and the last vestiges of the glow die in turn.

One last whisper echoed in the wind.

"And don't let anyone else tell you otherwise."

… … …

It was torturous, coming down on the other side of the wall by his own force, Madam Yao and Grand Elder Konstantinos having left to take care of much more important business than showing a new cultivator the reins. But landing upon softest grass and clean breeze rather than coarse sands and biting winds, Liu Mang was sure of it.

At the end… the only way you could claim that which was yours, and protect it and those that would stand with you…

… was by growing stronger.

As a Golden Devil.

(Word Count: 2130)

(@ReaderOfFate, @Kaboomatic, @no.)
 
The Truth of the Two Paths
Shadow roiled, and Manuel tossed in his bed.

While he slept he was never truly asleep, his Nascent Soul awake as his body slept. The need was barely there, but it was there.

Even so, he had not dreamt in centuries.

He woke up with a start, gasping. A bell was ringing. He looked around - the room was his own, but strange. The worn-out old bronze spear he kept on the wall, the single memento of the Konstantinos family that had survived the war the drove them into the desert was there, but it was burnished and new, pulsing with power.

The portrait of Alexios was replaced with a sterner looking, older Alexios, beard peppered with strands of aging green and wearing an entirely different uniform.

His eyes scanned around him, and the door shook with a knock.

"Up you get! Lord Callista and Lady Myia are having tea, you lazybones. It's your turn to serve."

A man burst in - Alexios! His heart rose into his chest, and Alexios laughed. The barrel-chested older man was always so easy with everything he did, kindly obscuring the effortlessness of his actions, effortlessly being kind.

"Come on, apprentice. It's an honor to serve the last two Law Creation Elders, you know? Lady Myia asked for you specifically, apparently you brewed her favourite Jasmine tea just right last time."

Manuel shook his head.

Alexios sighed.

"Look, I know you don't like being in public so much, but you're not the most talented. If you want to ever reach Spirit Severing, making connections with your elders can't hurt. Tell you what - you do this, and we rob old Aristophanes' wine cellar later on, eh? You and I haven't done that for a century, and I suspect his latest barrel has aged to perfection. If we can't get through his arrays my name's not Alexandros!"

Manuel laughed, but it was born of confusion. Where was he? What was happening? He resolved to obey, for the time being. How else was he going to discover what was happening.

The Qi around him felt absurdly rich, like a torrent to his senses. He cultivated for a cycle, the familiar pain of removing one's Soul from one's body returning, but it was less than it had been. It was though he lived in a holy land for cultivation, somewhere unimaginable.

The other man.. not Alexios. Alexandros? Alexandros tapped his foot impatiently.

"Come on, follow me."

They walked down a hallway for a time, and then rose into the air, flying up towards a mountain.

The fortress he saw there was immense. There was no other word for it. The fortress-tower dwarfed Turtlebone Mountain, dwarfed the Dawn Fortress by a factor of hundreds of thousands, a massive black pillar set against the sky, glowing blood-red at the top. He felt his blood ringing in his veins as he approached, power flowing into him he didn't know his ancestor had possessed. He flew ten, a hundred times faster, the Qi used returning in moments. He was strong, stronger than he had ever been. With a single strike he could kill any in Nascent Soul, he knew. Mere proximity to this tower was enough, and the closer he got... like this, empowered like this...

"I could beat Bhrigu", he muttered.

Alexandros looked at him.

"The Sage? Soon the Dao Protector of the Fifth Sea will fall if we have the right of it, and that pathetic old cretin will be dead along with the rest of his miserable clan. After that who can stand against us? The Curse of Lightning is killing us outside of the protection of the Towers of Spite, but as our enemies die the Towers will cover the entire continent. Soon enough we'll reclaim everything. We lost the First and Second Seas, but the other Seven remain within our remit. These setbacks won't last forever."

They flew, and rocketed towards the top of the tower.

At the top, two golden-skinned cultivators sat, their faces perfect in every way. Muscled but not bulging with excessive strength, symmetrical in every way, and with irises of gold looking out from a golden face amidst platinum hair the two sat.

"Alexandros, good. I've been wanting your boy to serve me tea - he's the only one who can get the brew right. Do you mind leaving?", spoke the woman.

She was the spitting image of Aretaphilia Myia if she had aged a few more centuries, and if her blood had become unimaginably pure.

To her right sat a man, who looked thankfully nothing like Rina Callista. Nearly seven feet tall and near as far across the shoulders as Manuel was tall, he nonetheless sat patiently. Something about him, though... he felt the same strength, the same belief that came from the Callista girl. Not exactly the same, but the feeling that he looked down on the world in some way, wanted to bring it to heel as opposed to merely living with it.

Alexandros rocketed off, and Manuel gulped.

Jasmine tea was the tea he had always been best at making, which was peculiar enough. He took the leaves provided, and boiled the water quickly, pouring it over the tea.

As he waited for it to steep, they spoke.

The man spoke first.

"So. I hear you failed in your little expedition into the Third Sea. The Dao Protector there repulsed us, making it impossible to regain contact with the Optimatoi we sent to restore order."

He smirked.

"Why even reach Law Creation if you can't kill a whale, Sophitia?"

She scowled at him.

"You think the Law of Song is so easily used to butcher my enemies? I taught it despair, and even that song wasn't enough to overcome it properly. It's buoyed by something new. The Dao Protectors are no longer in the realm of Law Creation, though I don't understand why. They're... part of the world, somehow. The same Curses that slaughter us they seem to be able to turn against us, and the damage I do just isn't enough. I could tear it in half without wounding it. I had to use a piece of Fundamental Law to even wound it as badly as I did, and that will leave me exhausted for a few decades. If they were willing to chase us onto land, Jovi..."

Jovi snorted.

"The Law of Shattered Time will be sufficient for any of these animals. I just need to remain in reserve as a strategic option, you both know that. Reversing the worst of the Curses constantly isn't easy, and only the Law of Shattered Time is enough to allow me to remove the attacks and force Heaven to consistently repair cause and effect rather than kill us all."

A few more moments, and the tea would be done.

In the far distance, stormclouds gathered. In front of them, a man flew, moving with incredible speed. Manuel could not track him - he was in front of the stormclouds, and then he was in front of the tower.

A simple brown-skinned man with a plain face and a wispy beard, he wore a white robe, and bore a glowing white object on his forehead. Manuel could not make it out - even staring at it for a moment gave him a pounding headache. The storm followed him, lightning smashing the ground around the tower.

He smiled, and struck.

Manuel died, and in that moment he saw Jovi die, saw Sophitia die. He felt himself cut in half, the complete irreversibility of that cut.

Then things cracked. He could not make sense of the world in his last moments, and suddenly everything was as it had been a few moments ago, the man approaching the tower.

Jovi and Sophitia rose up to face him.

The man bowed.

"I am Sage Bhrigu. Long have I wanted to meet the noble Law Creation Elders of the Sea-Conquering Army."

Jovi sneered.

"A petty attack. Even with that pittance, that little flickering star you bear on your brow, I can reverse anything you do. You should've crawled back into your hole, Bhrigu. I've killed your six so-called Sages, and you're the only one of those pitiful rebels who remains. Let me guess, you're here to gain vengeance for your clan? Your family?"

Bhrigu's eyes tightened.

"Thirteen million people you killed on that day. Do you truly think you bear no responsibility? That you do not deserve to die?"

Jovi struck out lazily, excising pieces of space around Bhrigu that came to a complete stop, a twisted zone of motionless time wrapping around him like so many ropes. Light could not penetrate it, and the timeless zone looked inky-black, but even moreso, drawing Manuel's eyes in. He felt the headache pulse for a moment and he spat out a mouthful of blood, barely able to stand. He turned his head away, cowering on the stand below.

The Sage struggled, but could not move.

"Deserve? I don't care about deserving to die. I care about finishing the task the Imperator sent us here to do. You animals have gotten in our way time and time again. Do I regret butchering your clan? No. Had you simply obeyed and come to your death I would not have had to kill them. Really, you should blame yourself if you blame anyone."

Bhrigu sighed, and spoke once more.

"I will grant you this chance. Repent, and turn from your ways. Avert your eyes from the Heavens, and I will permit you to live, and I will not take a single life of the gang of butchers you call the Sea-Conquering Army. I will preserve you against the wrathful Heavens if you are but willing to turn from this course."

Jovi's sneer grew wide.

"I'm going to kill you. Then I'm going to butcher every last misbegotten Turtle World native in this Sea. Maybe Heaven will find its blessings for rebels a little harder to grant when there's nobody left to rebel, hm?"

Bhrigu shook his head mournfully.

"There was never any saving you. I apologise, for once you are dead I will not be sufficient alone to turn aside Heaven's wrath from your people."

With that, time began again where it had been shattered. The world smoothed out, and Bhrigu shot forward, a single blow enough to kill Sophitia. She hadn't even had a chance to move.

Another blow, and Jovi hung in midair, his bones cracked, held aloft by Bhrigu's slightly wrinkled hand.

"I hate you, you know. You butchered my family, you butchered many others, and you bear no remorse for the deeds you have done. I am glad you refused my offer."

"How...", Jovi choked out.

Bhrigu smiled.

"Law Creation is the path of defiance. To see the world as it is and refuse it, to create your own Law in preparation for the stages beyond. To constantly strive for more power in every possible form. After all, without the Law one cannot begin Construction, and without Construction one cannot touch on the truth of life and death and Revive. I am aware of the path beyond the Law, but I chose not to take it."

Time tried to crack, but it was futile, the aura around Bhrigu shattering for a moment, the old Sage looking through what seemed to be a tear in time leading somewhere else before it resolved itself, repaired completely. He hmmphed, and looked down at Manuel for a moment.

That look aside, he turned back to Jovi.

"World Fusion is a different path. To live in harmony with the world, and to accept the natural Law, the decrees of Heaven. To repair and reinforce the world, rather than to maim it for your own advantage. It closes off the true path of ascension, but in return, the power far exceeds Law Creation. In harmony with the world, all of its forces are usable by me, all of the lines of Fate can be seen. The world does not merely tolerate my existence but demands it. To try to kill me without Heaven consenting is audacious - and impossible besides."

His hand raised, and came down.

"Goodbye, Jovi Callista."

Jovi's body began to disintegrate beneath the glare of Bhrigu. The world no longer tolerated his existence, and he abruptly ceased to be.

The Sage looked down at Manuel.

"Young man, I apologise. You are blameless in this, or at least as blameless as one can be. I only ask when you meet with my descendent again, do as I have done. If he must be killed, kill him, but even the vilest man deserves a chance at redemption."

The tower began to topple beneath Manuel's feet, and he blacked out.

He woke up with a start, gasping, the worn-out old bronze spear a few paces across from him on the wall.
 
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Holy shit. Several bombs dropped. The Sea-Conquering Army had took over all of the Seas, rather than just 3? They used to have Single Pillar path cultivators? In fact, that wasn't so unorthodox or mythologically-nigh-unknown back then? Dao-Seeking is renamed into World Fusion (which we sorta knew) but the Single Pillar path name for it is Law Creation. Killing millions of people just like that. And the same happening in reverse in other times and situations. World goes round and round.

Dao-Seeking renamed World Fusion. And the Single Pillar version of that is called Law Creation.

Huh. There were Single Pillar cultivators in the Imperial Optimatoi in the ancient past? That's a surprise... but in hindsight, in a living sea, 288 years in Qi Condensation becomes only 144 years or so. Still something hard to reach, but viable. I just... thought that the Single Pillar path was newer than that.

But then, what does that make the "Break through from Heavenstage 9-12" path then???

Did that exist back then but nobody took it back then and everyone was Single Pillar, or... Or were there crummy non-Single Pillar cultivators that broke through at 9th-12th Heavenstage; and the elites and awesome people were Single Pillars. It's just that then the people, or the Heavens, found an alternative path in Foundation Building. Hrm.

Oh gees.

Because, well... I see. So the difference between then and now is, that Demonic Soup Chef included an anti-Emperor's-Pillar-path contingency into the Single Pillar cultivators?

The 9th Pillars, Emperor Pillars, which leads to World Fusion. They are a counter to Single Pillar and Law Creation.

And so then, Demonic Soup Chef came up with a counter for that counter. Consumption.

... Shit. That's actually bad. Because doesn't that imply that normal Single Pillar path is insufficient to stand against the Heavens -- because they've already come up with a counter for that, long long ago? Because if the only way to stand against the Heavens is with the contingency and plots that Soup Chef came up with... ... No. There must be another way. There must be more paths to victory. Hrm.

Unless the Single Pillar can break past Dao-Seeking/Law Creation, as the Emperor's Pillar path maxes out at some level, but that's... ... Not highly likely. Even in a living sea it would have been difficult, but this one is dead.

Single Pillar might be enough to achieve superpower status in the Virtuous Flipper Region, or in the 3rd Sea. But how does it solve the long-term problem of "This turtle is going to die fully, and then who knows what what we do? Everything's dead, how do we survive?" "Or alternatively, the turtle will die and be reborn and the full power of the Heavens will return. And then what?"

But now we have the addition that, even if you somehow got out of the Third Sea, and you were a Single Pillar... There'll be ways to beat you even then.


... Actually, the other weird thing here, is the World Fusion thing. I was calling it as "Ah so it goes Emperor's Pillar --> Some kind of Core Formation --> Nascent Soul --> World Fusion". But the Dao Protector of the Third Sea, the whale, somehow transitioned to World Fusion. And I don't think he was in Foundation Building and took the Emperor's Pillar path. :V

Which means that it's somehow possible to go from normal Dao-Seeking to World Fusion instead. Or at least, it's possible if you are a Turtle World native or one of Emperor Turtle's dao protectors of his kids.

... The really weird thing, then, is going to be if/when some Golden Devils reach Emperor's Pillar. o_O

That will be truly abnormal, won't it? ... Though. I guess it could have happened in the past. Just. Not usually. So...
 
Huh. There were Single Pillar cultivators in the Imperial Optimatoi in the ancient past? That's a surprise... but in hindsight, in a living sea, 288 years in Qi Condensation becomes only 144 years or so. Still something hard to reach, but viable. I just... thought that the Single Pillar path was newer than that.

But then, what does that make the "Break through from Heavenstage 9-12" path then???

Did that exist back then but nobody took it back then and everyone was Single Pillar, or... Or were there crummy non-Single Pillar cultivators that broke through at 9th-12th Heavenstage; and the elites and awesome people were Single Pillars. It's just that then the people, or the Heavens, found an alternative path in Foundation Building. Hrm.

Actually the Soup Chef created the single pillar path.

Because, well... I see. So the difference between then and now is, that Demonic Soup Chef included an anti-Emperor's-Pillar-path contingency into the Single Pillar cultivators?

The 9th Pillars, Emperor Pillars, which leads to World Fusion. They are a counter to Single Pillar and Law Creation.

I'm pretty sure that the 8th Pillar is more of the World Fusion deal, its the working with the heavens while the Emperor Pillar is the commanding the world deal
 
Actually the Soup Chef created the single pillar path.
Yeah, but... Hrm. I was sure that these guys were, in the narration, being compared to that.

Did they just hit some unorthodox stage in Spirit-Severing? Or Dao-Seeking? Or... I'm confused.

Or maybe they were Single Pillar equivalent -- it's just, the "proper" way to enter that equivalent, was to do so at higher Great Realms. You enter it at Dao-Seeking.

Soup Chef's invention was that he was able to find a way to get onto the Single Pillar path at Qi Condensation.

... In fact. We are told that Heavenstage 13th purifies the Dao, so...

Was that it? These guys were Dao-Seeking. It's just that, at Dao-Seeking, you get Dao Magic Bullshit that gives off a "I am making my own world, with blackjack! And hookers!" like Single Pillar/One-Pillar does. (I've been using Single Pillar all this time, but checking the Informational tab briefly showed it written as One-Pillar. Shrug.)

Hrmmm.
 
Yeah, but... Hrm. I was sure that these guys were, in the narration, being compared to that.

Did they just hit some unorthodox stage in Spirit-Severing? Or Dao-Seeking? Or... I'm confused.

Or maybe they were Single Pillar equivalent -- it's just, the "proper" way to enter that equivalent, was to do so at higher Great Realms. You enter it at Dao-Seeking.

Soup Chef's invention was that he was able to find a way to get onto the Single Pillar path at Qi Condensation.

... In fact. We are told that Heavenstage 13th purifies the Dao, so...

Was that it? These guys were Dao-Seeking. It's just that, at Dao-Seeking, you get Dao Magic Bullshit that gives off a "I am making my own world, with blackjack! And hookers!" like Single Pillar/One-Pillar does. (I've been using Single Pillar all this time, but checking the Informational tab briefly showed it written as One-Pillar. Shrug.)

Hrmmm.

They're not Single Pillar.

Single Pillar far postdates the final death of the Sea Conquering Army. That being said, it seems Single Pillar brushes up against the Law stuff that we've seen here somehow.
 
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