Yeah, not getting into it. Especially give how all of your arguments have categorically been picked apart with logic and reason for why nothing you said would work out like you wanted it to.

This is why no one agrees with you. Someone presents a reasonable argument, and rather than come at it with the attempt to assuage those concerns, you assert they might not be concerns.

The thread reacts with mild negativity for a proposal--generally because they are big Aerys-esque 'pie in the sky' plans, but it's up to everyone else to figure out how to make it work out and avoid any consequences.

Coincidentally, none of Aerys proposals were ever completed.
 
It showed a distinct lack of knowledge of our motivation and character.

It was insulting that she knew so much about us, and yet so little. She metaphysically manipulated us into the position we were in, and yet was criminally unable to socially manipulate us. We do not like being made fools of, but most especially, emphatically, the thread hates being manipulated by someone we find is actually not half as clever as they think they are.
Which makes R'llor a tactical genius since his master manipulation plan is basically "keep doing what you're doing, but if you screw up I will pick it up from there," and we're 100% on board with it.
 
Which makes R'llor a tactical genius since his master manipulation plan is basically "keep doing what you're doing, but if you screw up I will pick it up from there," and we're 100% on board with it.
Absolutely am I on board with a proposal that fucks over my enemies who killed me.

It's so... us.

Which displays a reasonable knowledge of our character and motives.
 
Which makes R'llor a tactical genius since his master manipulation plan is basically "keep doing what you're doing, but if you screw up I will pick it up from there," and we're 100% on board with it.
Yeah, never would have thought R'hllor would be so reasonable. Complete night and day from how we saw him at the beginning of the quest.
 
It's not. Gods died in that wasteland.
Ok guess it's not viable anyway then, I must have forgot exactly how bullshit the outlands of Heaven is.

I remembered it as being merely Pitlords who died in that wasteland.

Will try to remember how bullshit Heaven is, and wait with bringing it up, until we are quite a bit stronger.
Yeah, not getting into it. Especially give how all of your arguments have categorically been picked apart with logic and reason for why nothing you said would work out like you wanted it to.

This is why no one agrees with you. Someone presents a reasonable argument, and rather than come at it with the attempt to assuage those concerns, you assert they might not be concerns.

The thread reacts with mild negativity for a proposal--generally because they are big Aerys-esque 'pie in the sky' plans, but it's up to everyone else to figure out how to make it work out and avoid any consequences.

Coincidentally, none of Aerys proposals were ever completed.
Some of my plans have worked, I came up with the Fire Whale gem harvesting, and was a part of working out how to reverse the slow extinction of the Children of the forest.

I have some plans that turn out to be not so good, but I actually try to work out how to do them, I would say that my problem is actually the opposite of Aerys, he came up with a plan, asked others to complete it and then forgot about it, I come up with plans, and then compulsively try to figure out how to make it work.

My problem is that I become too attached to an idea, and so even if it's not as good an idea as I think it is, I have a hard time letting it go, and it's only with the benefit of hindsight I see that.

But don't say I don't try to work out how to implement my plans, or that all my plans are bad, I always put effort into my plans, and while sometime they turn out to be bad ideas, some of them have been quite good.

And I don't dismiss concerns, unless those concerns are explicitly about something that's not part of my plan, but only about a misunderstanding about what my plan was about, such as me dismissing the diplomacy here with my Jabberwocky plan, the only reason I dismissed that, was that I was planning to plop the Jabberwocky down in the outlands of Heaven, and that's no mans land, so diplomacy wasn't going to happen.

And when it was pointed out to me, that even with a CR24 guardian a Heart trees survival chances in the Outlands were low, I agreed to drop the plan.
 
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This wasn't a research project though, at least I don't think it was, we already have access to Fungal spores, we just have never used them for fear of a fungal apocalypse.
I think you're underselling the inclination of fungal creatures to violence. They only sit around doing nothing when they can't perceive any other form of life. The second a valid victim comes along they explicitly feel an overwhelming need to reproduce by planting spores in whatever poor bastard tripped over them so that their kid can eat them alive from the inside out.

"Natural" fungal creatures can't work with or around anyone else and don't have any super valuable abilities, so their utility is limited.
 
I think you're underselling the inclination of fungal creatures to violence. They only sit around doing nothing when they can't perceive any other form of life. The second a valid victim comes along they explicitly feel an overwhelming need to reproduce by planting spores in whatever poor bastard tripped over them so that their kid can eat them alive from the inside out.

"Natural" fungal creatures can't work with or around anyone else and don't have any super valuable abilities, so their utility is limited.
Yep, their utility is limited, but it's not non-existent, they're excellent guardians for something you want everyone kept away from, and they're a good weapon to annihilate cities and the like, while being less likely than other self-reproducing weapons to go out of control, as Fungal creatures wont try to break out of a quarantine.

They're a circumstantial weapon, and we certainly shouldn't use them lightly, but they have the potential to be useful.
 
Some of my plans have worked, I came up with the Fire Whale gem harvesting, and was a part of working out how to reverse the slow extinction of the Children of the forest.

I have some plans that turn out to be not so good, but I actually try to work out how to do them, I would say that my problem is actually the opposite of Aerys, he came up with a plan, asked others to complete it and then forgot about it, I come up with plans, and then compulsively try to figure out how to make it work.

My problem is that I become too attached to an idea, and so even if it's not as good an idea as I think it is, I have a hard time letting it go, and it's only with the benefit of hindsight I see that.

But don't say I don't try to work out how to implement my plans, or that all my plans are bad, I always put effort into my plans, and while sometime they turn out to be bad ideas, some of them have been quite good.

As someone who doesn't always participate in these arguments, how about you phrase it differently?

See, you want a guardian for a Weirwood in Hellven. It doesn't have to be this Jabberwocky. It doesn't need to have the fungal template.

So, how about you phrase it as "how could we use this high CR creature to build a high CR guardian"?

You know what I just thought about this? We could grab that dreen dragon turned into a Zomok guardian of the tree of Sorcerer's Deep and upgrade him. How about that?

Now, it has been dismissed that we have anything that can survive in Hellven, but it doesn't mean that we can't use this.
 
As someone who doesn't always participate in these arguments, how about you phrase it differently?

See, you want a guardian for a Weirwood in Hellven. It doesn't have to be this Jabberwocky. It doesn't need to have the fungal template.

So, how about you phrase it as "how could we use this high CR creature to build a high CR guardian"?

You know what I just thought about this? We could grab that dreen dragon turned into a Zomok guardian of the tree of Sorcerer's Deep and upgrade him. How about that?

Now, it has been dismissed that we have anything that can survive in Hellven, but it doesn't mean that we can't use this.
Yeah you're right, since it wont be for Hellven Fungal creature isn't the best option, but I still think it would be better to use the Jabberwocky to create a creature we can use, instead of just sacrificing it.

Although I still think the idea of throwing a Fungal Jabberwocky at the City of Brass is hilarious, it's probably a bad idea with way too much collateral damage, but it give me that warm fuzzy feeling.
 
Speaking of the Zomok...do we just want to make the Zomok a Green Dragon? He is not a threat and he would be another grande middle finger to Tiamat.
 
Speaking of the Zomok...do we just want to make the Zomok a Green Dragon? He is not a threat and he would be another grande middle finger to Tiamat.

He would be a greater threat as a dragon. At the same time, we are dragon wranglers at this point.

The problem is that the Tree of SD will likely need another guardian. I'm not opposed to make this Jabberwocky into a mega-zomok, though. The Tree needs a better guardian.
 
The problem is that the Tree of SD will likely need another guardian. I'm not opposed to make this Jabberwocky into a mega-zomok, though. The Tree needs a better guardian.
Not really. He could still be the guardian as was his pact with the Old Gods. He would just get...vacation days.

Edit: We could give him a Southrosi lordship or something. God knows he would thrive in that hellscape.
 
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Not really. He could still be the guardian as was his pact with the Old Gods. He would just get...vacation days.

The actual Zomok can't leave the area. I don't know if turning him int a dragon, which kinda involved rebirthing him, will render void the promises made.

I mean, that's how you can escape curses, why not geases and pacts?

We will need to ask about the nature of it first.
 
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The actual Zomok can't leave the area. I don't know if turning him int a dragon, which kinda involved rebirthing him, will render void the promises made.

I mean, that's how you can escape curses, why not geases and pacts?

We will need to as about the nature of it first.
I think the original pact was that the dragon would protect the trees and the Old Gods would protect the eggs. Though I could be wrong. It has been a couple years
 
Like I said earlier, I really don't want to hang on to the Jabberwock for long, y'all. If the Tane exist in our cosmology, it would be best not to attract their attention more than we already have. And if the Sprite we're talking to is one of them, I am very freaking concerned.

So what if we fed it to Yss, in exchange for him converting the four Vilderavn like he did Tor? Those things are very powerful and they have a really good set of abilities which would be useful for all sorts of situations.
 
Like I said earlier, I really don't want to hang on to the Jabberwock for long, y'all. If the Tane exist in our cosmology, it would be best not to attract their attention more than we already have. And if the Sprite we're talking to is one of them, I am very freaking concerned.

So what if we fed it to Yss, in exchange for him converting the four Vilderavn like he did Tor? Those things are very powerful and they have a really good set of abilities which would be useful for all sorts of situations.
I am content with mostly anything as long as I have a trophy out of the Jabberwock to display in the Hall of Horrors. But loyal creatures with Vilderavn abilities sound very, very appealing.
 
Like I said earlier, I really don't want to hang on to the Jabberwock for long, y'all. If the Tane exist in our cosmology, it would be best not to attract their attention more than we already have. And if the Sprite we're talking to is one of them, I am very freaking concerned.

So what if we fed it to Yss, in exchange for him converting the four Vilderavn like he did Tor? Those things are very powerful and they have a really good set of abilities which would be useful for all sorts of situations.
Snake themed Outsiders, maybe with a Template, given how qualitatively superior in CR that Jabberwock is?

What Template would go great with infiltration specialists?
 
The imagery of the Jabberwoc is based on Valyrian Dragons. I think that means that they were born from the stories of Aegon's conquests rather than from the Tane. However, I am more than fine with giving him to Yss for the conversion of the raven men
 
I'd prefer to sacrifice the Jabberwock to the Old Gods, since if we loot the ravens, I want to keep their physical forms.
 
Snake themed Outsiders, maybe with a Template, given how qualitatively superior in CR that Jabberwock is?

What Template would go great with infiltration specialists?
I bet Yss could slap the Lawbound Creature template on them.


That is a solid template, and one that would work quite well against other Fey.
I'd prefer to sacrifice the Jabberwock to the Old Gods, since if we loot the ravens, I want to keep their physical forms.
They're fairly versatile shapechangers, so I would expect them to keep that feature. Would probably lose one of their potential forms for something serpentine, though.

I don't mind sacrificing the Jabberwock to the OG to reformat the Vilderavn, I just think Yss might do a better job of minion conversion in this case.
 
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