For Jon, the culture shock will be much worse. He is used Winterfell and maybe the occasional visit to Wintertown. Always the same people. All of them Northmen, with the occasional trader thrown in for color.

Sorcerers Deep is... more eventful then that... To say nothing of his quarters in the Imperial Palace.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Nov 29, 2020 at 8:09 AM, finished with 68 posts and 25 votes.

  • [X] Plan Stark Reality
    -[X] Tell Stark that you would prefer to let him grieve in peace, but there are matters that need addressing urgently and thus it can't be helped. Jon should be present for this since most of it concerns him.
    -[X] In regards to Cersei and the Iron Throne:
    --[X] He has gotten the news from the south and if he does not believe you or your newspaper, then you are perfectly willing to perform the divinations confirming the relevant information right here and now in his presence. Or wait for his mages to do the same.
    --[X] His feelings for his friend Robert are one thing, but the facts are that the children are not his, the woman who murdered him is now sitting on the throne and it's anyones guess what other atrocities she will unleash in the coming months. For all you know, they will try to bind further Winter Fey, or mayhaps outright pact with them, opening the door for more and more such assassins to slip through the gaps int he First Mens defenses.
    --[X] He will have to consider where he stands since this has implications...
    -[X] In regards to Winterfell and his allegiance:
    --[X] So far, you considered the wards of the castle sufficient to protect the inhabitants, but apparently that is not the case. This has both personal implications in regards to Jon and strategic implications, as Winterfell may or may not hold a key to a vulnerability of the Wall itself. It's defenses must be increased.
    --[X] You will not pretend that any troops you send would be wholly under Starks control and so that fig-leaf will not even be considered. If he accepts these forces, then that means he swears fealty to the Imperium and accepts the terms offered in regards to the political restructuring and dissolution of the North as recompense for damages incurred due to his participation in the Rebellion.
    --[X] If he accepts, you will send the City Defense Group over immediately, including some selected Inquisition operatives who will begin to establish an Inquisition presence in Wintertown, Winterfell itself and the countryside. You will send further forces once you had time to review current deployment orders.
    --[X] If he refuses and wishes to stand with the Lannisters, then you will henceforth have to treat him as an enemy. You were willing to let him sit on the fence for the longest while due to what he has done for Jon, but there is a time when you can no longer afford such indulgence. Though you will swear oath before the Heart Tree of Winterfell that no harm will be done his children by you or anyone loyal to you if he chooses to be your enemy, neither Sansa nor any who remain in Winterfell and neither will they be used as bargaining chips in one way or another. You are not Tywin Lannister.
    --[X] However, he will have his time to grieve before deciding. You expect his answer in one week at the latest. If he does not answer, then you know where he stands and wish him the best of luck on that path.
    -[X] In regards to Lyanna:
    --[X] Confirm that you are aware of her ghost having existed in Jons head for the last few years. This should be uncontroversial, since Stark saw her manifestations himself.
    --[X] You have not brought up the matter before, due to the political ramifications of revealing Jons parentage, but those considerations a moot now.
    --[X] You have no feelings one way or another on Lyanna Stark, but Jon deserves to have privacy in his life, not the constant presence of an undead spectre. Therefore, you propose the following options:
    ---[X] Returning Lyanna to life with True Ressurection.
    ---[X] Transferring her soul to an artificial Warforged body.
    ---[X] Performing arcane rituals upon her to stabilize her soul and prevent her state of being from affecting her mental faculties while disentangling her from Jon. (Turning her into a free, Soulforged undead.)
    ---[X] Putting her to final rest, sending her soul on to the Green Dream.
    --[X] The choice which path she wants to take is Lyannas, but it will have to be one of those options, though Stark can of course offer his input on the matter. The current state of affairs is unhealthy for Jon, suboptimal for Lyanna, and both of them would likely be much happier with another arrangement.
    -[X] In regards to Jon:
    --[X] You hereby offer him to become your ward, which includes him getting a place to study at the Scholarium. Beyond that, this will include combat training, advanced studies and the necessary equipment for his safety and desired path in life. In the time that Stark wants to take to consider his options, you would take him to SD so that he can see what awaits him there. You will also throw in a bag of candy, because you are perfectly aware of what you are doing, but the ends justify the means.
    --[X] That choice is Jons alone.
    ---[X] If Lyanna wishes to accompany him, she can do so and will be hosted as a guest of the state.
 
Part MMMDCLXVIII: Of Legacies Lost and Kept
Of Legacies Lost and Kept

First Day of the Fourth Month 294 AC

"Were this visit for a less grave matter I would rather let you grieve in peace, my lord," you begin in all honesty. The last person you grieved as dead was Ser Willem Darry and even he did not lie forever in the embrace of death. You have no such hopes for Robb Stark, you have no quick answers nor spells to mend a broken heart. You once more look over father and son, for in all the things that matter Eddard Stark is Jon's son and not Rhaegar who sired him. You could have chosen to leave your nephew out of this, but you hope that by involving him in matters of the realm, of politics and power, you will make him more likely to heed your word if... when he overreaches.

"Of what would you speak of?" the Lord of Wonterfell asks wearily, the tone making it clear he can make a good guess.

"Robert Baratheon is dead by Winter's touch at the hands of the woman who will now seek to take the throne in the name of her children. Her children and not his. Joffrey Waters, Tommen Waters and Myrcella Waters are no children of Robert Baratheon, but born of the union of Cersei Lannister and her brother Ser Jaimie Lannister." One could hear every creak and groan of the ancient keep in the silence that followed. You allow yourself the faintest shadow of a smile. "I am hardly one to cast aspersions on that joining for the closeness of their kinship, though there is the matter of her marriage vows to consider."

"On what grounds do you claim this, Your Grace?" Maester Luwin asks. The title was not a slip of the tongue. Is he trying to push Lord Stark into accepting your claim to the throne, you wonder.

"Sorcery in part, ask it of the Old Gods, or the New, of the World Serpent born before the age of man and they shall answer true for gods see the past, the present and the future with the same eyes. But if that is not proof enough for you consider that, though Robert Baratheon has no trueborn sons and daughters of his body he has plenty born out of wedlock." You speak without passion and without rancor, imagining yourself in some magistrate's hall making the case against Cersei Lannister for all her execution has already been set. "I've met two of them, Mya Stone from the Vale where she used to tend donkeys and Gendry Waters from the Crownlands, a smith's apprentice, his fees paid by Jon Arryn. Both are black of hair and blue of eye, like Robert, like his brother Stannis, even like the woman sired by one of Ormund Baratheon's bastards also in my service. The blood runs strong."

"That isn't proof itself, children can favor their mother as much as their father," Eddard Stark answers, sounding more numb than shaken, still trying to preserve Baratheon's legacy perhaps.

"My lord, there are spells I have learned in Qarth that match blood to blood and find kinship," Ser Halys interrupted. "Doubtless such magics have been sought and found in other places also..." He hesitates a moment. "It would be a very foolish lie for His Grace to tell, which could be so easily disproved, and I do not believe he is a fool."

Jon actually gives a nervous laugh, startling himself, then looking stricken as though he feels he aught not be allowed amusement. Dany shoots him a concerned look.

"Thank you for the vote of confidence Ser, I shall do my best to live up to it," you reply dryly, not taking your eyes of Eddard Stark.

"Then Stannis is Robert's heir," he says, almost too soft to hear, even for you. You can read the struggle behind storm grey eyes. Should he fight and die for Stannis' claim, for Baratheon's legacy, or bend the knee here and now. Were you to make a wager it would be weighted towards the latter over the former. Heavy as the memory of his foster brother may weigh the well-being of his family and his people weigh more.

But in this at least you can spare him grief. "Stannis Baraheon has already acknowledged that I am king and in turn I have acknowledged his right to the Stormlands for House Baratheon."

"When? How?" Unlike last time Maester Luwin's question sounds not the least bit calculated, but simply baffled. Reliable loyal Stannis, that's the one... It's a wonder how the man makes it through the day with so many assigning him less agency than loyal dog.

You briefly consider hedging the first question, making it seem that he had only just made his pledge, then realize Stannis would not be the one to prop up complex lies. "The first question is not one that will be of much use here. As for the second, consider what you learned today and what the Lannisters did to him in his absence."

"Halys call one of Stannis' sorcerers," Lord Stark says at last. Turning back to you he adds. "I believe that what you say is true, but this is too grave a matter not to confirm by my own means."

"Of course," you reply graciously. Were this another lord or another time you might have simply offered to take him to Storm's End to speak to Stannis in person, but after all that had happened today you understand the need to regain a sense of control over his own fate. Time may be precious, but you can spare a few hours.

It will give you a chance to speak to Jon about what happened today and the offer to go to Sorcerer's Deep if he so chooses.

How do you approach Jon?

[] Write in

OOC: Break point here partly for length and partly because Ned's oath should not come crammed into the last few lines of an update.
 
Last edited:
Of Legacy and Letters

First Day of the Fourth Month 294 AC

"Were this visit for a less grave matter, I would rather let you grieve in peace, my lord," you begin in all honesty. The last person you grieved as dead was Ser Willem Darry and even he did not lie forever in the embrace of death. You have no such hopes for Robb Stark. You have no quick answers nor spells to mend a broken heart. You once more over father and son, for in all the things that matter Eddard Stark is Jon's son rather than Rhaegar who sired him. You could have chosen to leave your nephew out of this, but you hope that by involving him in matters of the realm, of politics and power, you will make him more likely to heed your word if... when he overreaches.

"Of what would you speak?" the Lord of Winterfell asks wearily, the tone making it clear he can make a good guess.

"Robert Baratheon is dead by Winter's touch at the hands of the woman who will now seek to take the throne in the name of her children. Her children and not his. Joffrey Waters, Tommen Waters, and Myrecella Waters are no children of Robert Baratheon, but born of the union of Cersei Lannister and her brother, Ser Jaimie Lannister." One could hear every creak and groan of the ancient keep in the silence that followed. You allow yourself the faintest shadow of a smile. "I am hardly one to cast aspersions on that joining for the closeness of their kinship, though there is the matter of her marriage vows to consider."

"On what grounds do you claim this, Your Grace?" Maester Luwin asks. The title was not a slip of the tongue. Is he trying to push Lord Stark into accepting your claim to the throne? you wonder.

"Sorcery in part, ask it of the Old Gods, or the New, of the World Serpent born before the age of man and they shall answer true, for gods see the past the present and the future with the same eyes. But if that is not proof enough for you, consider that though Robert Baratheon has no trueborn sons and daughters of his body he has plenty born out of wedlock." You speak without passion and without rancor, imagining yourself in some magistrate's hall making the case against Cersei Lannister, for all her execution has already been set. "I've met two of them, Mya Stone from the Vale where she used to tend donkeys and Gendry Waters from the Crownland, a smith's apprentice, his fees paid by Jon Aryn. Both are black of hair and blue of eye, like Robert, like his brother Stannis, even like the woman sired by one of Ormund Baratheon's, bastards also in my service. The blood runs strong."

"That isn't proof itself, children can favor their mother as much as their father," Eddard Stark answers, sounding more numb than shaken, still trying to preserve Baratheon's legacy perhaps.

"My lord, there are spells I have learned in Quarth that match blood to blood and find kinship," Ser Halys interrupted. "Doubtless such magics have been sought and found in other places also..." He hesitates a moment. "It would be a very foolish lie for His Grace to tell, which would be so easily disproved, and I do not believe he is a fool."

Jon actually gives a nervous laugh, startling himself, then looking stricken as though he feels he aught not be allowed amusement. Dany shoots him a concerned look.

"Thank you for the vote of confidence, Ser, I shall do my best to live up to it," you reply dryly, not taking your eyes of Eddard Stark.

"Then Stannis is Robert's heir," he says, almost too soft to hear, even for you. You can read the struggle behind storm grey eyes. Should he fight and die for Stannis' claim, for Baratheon's legacy, or bend the knee here and now. Were you to make a wager, it would be weighted towards the latter over the former. Heavy as the memory of his foster brother may weigh, the well-being of his family and his people weigh more.

But in this at least you can spare him grief. "Stannis Baratheon has already acknowledged that I am king and in turn I have acknowledged his right to the Stormlands for House Baratheon."

"When? How" Unlike last time, Maester Luwin's question sounds not the least bit calculated, but simply baffled. Reliable, loyal Stannis, that's the one... It's a wonder how the man makes it through the day with so many assigning him less agency than a loyal dog.

You briefly consider hedging the first question, making it seem that he had only just made his pledge, then realize Stannis would not be the one to prop up complex lies. "The first question is not one that will be of much use here. As for the second, consider what you learned today and what the Lannisters did to him in his absence."

"Luwin, send a raven to Storm's End to confirm this," Lord Stark says at last. Turning back to you, he adds, "I believe that what you say is true, but this is too grave a matter not to confirm by my own means."

"Of course," you reply graciously. Were this another lord or another time you might have simply offered to take him to Storm's End to speak to Stannis in person, but after all that had happened today, you understand the need to regain a sense of control over his own fate. Time may be precious, but you can spare a few hours.

It will give you a chance to speak to Jon about what happened today and the offer to go to Sorcerer's Deep if he so chooses.

How do you approach Jon?

[] Write in

OOC: Break point here partly for length and partly because Ned's oath should not come crammed into the last few lines of an update. Not yet edited.
Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
 
You are mixing up a raven with a Wyvern there. :p

Also, minor detail, we still will have Stannis cede the western slice of the Stormlands, not keep all of it.
He'll be the only vassal who won't complain about the Balkanization. Well, the only one who originally had a kingdom. The Boltons and Freys are thrilled.
 
Also, minor detail, we still will have Stannis cede the western slice of the Stormlands, not keep all of it.

I did remember that, but it's not that relevant to the overall point, which is 'there is no counter-claim unless you mean Cersei's bastards' phrased more circumspectly so as not to upset Jon with the implication that all bastards are somehow inherently inferior, Viserys was careful of that.
 
So are we planning on kidnapping rescuing Robb's soul ourselves or is that going to be Jon's personal mission like Better!Renly's search for his deadbeat double?

Cause if we're leaving it to Jon and the Starks we should outfit them appropriately as soon as this discussion ends 'cause I don't think they're going to be willing to wait for anything else, even the war itself, to start the search and rescue mission.
 
So are we planning on kidnapping rescuing Robb's soul ourselves or is that going to be Jon's personal mission like Better!Renly's search for his deadbeat double?

Cause if we're leaving it to Jon and the Starks we should outfit them appropriately as soon as this discussion ends 'cause I don't think they're going to be willing to wait for anything else, even the war itself, to start the search and rescue mission.
Jon will be dead meat if he tries to rescue Robb right now. For starters, nobody has any idea where his soul even is. So what's he gonna do? Run north until the CR 20 undead tear him apart?
 
Jon will be dead meat if he tries to rescue Robb right now. For starters, nobody has any idea where his soul even is. So what's he gonna do? Run north until the CR 20 undead tear him apart?
Forget Jon. We'd be dead meat. Invading the heart of Winter itself is hardly a walk in the park.

Also we have a mostly empty Larder.
 
Jon will be dead meat if he tries to rescue Robb right now. For starters, nobody has any idea where his soul even is. So what's he gonna do? Run north until the CR 20 undead tear him apart?
Oh I know, which is why I was wondering. Something like this, even when there are no leads, perhaps especially when there are no leads, would make them all anxious.

If would be different if Robb's soul was destroyed, then they would just be grieving, but the fact that he still exists and can be brought back to life if they find him? They're going to be chomping at the bit.

Even if the only thing they can do is stew in it I still expect them to try to do something to find him or dig up a lead, even if that means petitioning the Old Gods or the Seven for aid. Hell they might even do both at the same time.
 
For the Dornish, the conquest is the biggest "Fuck all of you!" they could give to the rest of Westeros. They are getting so filthy rich.
- Doran Martell, 294 AC
 
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