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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Crake said:
I'm going to shit a brick if the next update is, "Hm, you know, that is suspicious," and then: You reach for the Dragon Dream, but all you can see is grey mist... greyer than a Maester's robes.
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If he really is a member of the conspiracy, I'm extremely in favor of cramming him into a bottle and handing him over to Qyburn for "debriefing". He would be our first solid lead on them in years.
 
Azel said:
Added this since we might as well bring the written account of what killed Robert, who did it, why and who boned whom in the Red Keep, with proof attached.

Also, I'm suspicious of Luwyn. The news should have reached Winterfell already.
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I wouldn't be surprised if news of Robert's death hasn't been disseminated from King's Landing in a timely manner. A bit of a delay would allow more Lannister forces to quietly move in and further solidify their stranglehold on the city before any potential unrest kicks off.
 
Azel said:
She wasn't abducted though, but willingly eloped with him, knowing full well just how much of a mess she was making in the process. Casting her as the innocent victim is grossly missing the mark.
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She essentially eloped after being groomed. I know in high school one of my classmates had a crush on a teacher and very blatantly flirted with him. Thankfully the teacher in question did have some moral scruples and did every thing he could to drive her off. However even if he was a worse person and the two had sex, I personally would 100% put the onus of the blame on the adult man who really really should know better rather than the teenager.

As for consequences I'd say its unfairly malicious to assume that a continent spanning war was a completely predictable result and that she was just fine with it. The whole war started with a mind boggingly awful breach of fuedal tradition that even took her much more experienced father off guard, hence why he got trapped and killed in the first place. Its more likely that she'd thought her indescretion would result in her personally getting disowned/whatever with Baratheon getting pissed and that'd leave her free as a bird to idk be a sellsword in Essos as opposed to "oh shit alls on fire and my family's all dead." Yeah its incredibly naive and fantastical to think such a thing would work at all its not really the same level of malice as "I'm gonna burn Westeros to tap some ass." Hell, for an example of how this diet of thing usually is treated barring the Aerys factor, look at Rina. got sent off to the Silent Sisters. Yes it was an awful fate for her, but it definitely did not result in total war.

Crake said:
The thing is, nobles in Westeros are considered adults by the law and by traditional standards by like, 11. Or whenever they can talk and are cognizant of the consequences of their actions, which could be as early as age 9 depending on how high their status is.

As a former Kingdom-tier Great House scion, Lyanna Stark has higher standards to adhere to than a modern teenage girl in high school.
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I mean yes socially she might have been expected as an adult*, but I'd say Westerosi fuedal culture works against her regarding Rhaegar. Okay so what exactly makes a 20-some thing teacher banging one of his students so squicky? The age gap and the power differential. Sure Lyanna's high up on the fuedal ladder, but guess what's even higher on the rung? The Crown Prince. And we just had a discussion about why peasants with magic might still feel like they have to listen to magic less nobles which more or less boiled down to "feudal hierarchy." Imo the power gap between a student and teacher isn't larger than that between even a high ranking noble and The Crown Prince. Sure she might have wanted to believe that a liason with tall and handsome would work out okay and didn't think too hard about those sweet nothings he whispered re how things would turn out okay, how Targs have totally had multiple wives in the past, etc etc, but even if she wanted to what the hell was she supposed to say? "No Mr. Future Supreme Autocratic Ruler of Westeros, you're wrong and fuck off?"

*and honestly I kinda raise my eyebrows at the whole "Westeros thinks girls are 100% grown at 13" thing. What happens to Sansa in the books is definitely not the norm, and we see Catelyn who during peacetime/more normal times had an early betrothal but a marriage set much later in life.
 
Azel said:
If he really is a member of the conspiracy, I'm extremely in favor of cramming him into a bottle and handing him over to Qyburn for "debriefing". He would be out first solid lead on them in years.
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Are we going to pull a Varys on Luwin if that's the case? I mean, Brynden is going to be needing another body pretty soon... and it would be ironic if he was spying on the Starks to help them rather than hurt them. :V
 
MickOfTime said:
Not going to lie, I hope there's something a little extra involved in getting Robb back, if that's even possible. A Stark being slain by the Others within the very walls of Winterfell...that's got some heavy resonance and history behind it, imo. It ought to very difficult to undo.
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That's not how it work, it's precisely because it was within Winterfell it ought to be easy to undo, Winterfell is heavily warded against the Others, which mean Winterfell is one of the places, where the Others should have the most difficulty permakilling anyone, and the Wards are tied to the Starks, so Robb being a Stark, should make it even more difficult for them to bypass the Wards and permakill him.

If Robb was killed outside Winterfell by a powerful servant of the Others, he ought to be hard to resurrect, being killed by a servant, that was intentionally made weak so as to pass beneath the notice of the Wards, in Winterfell where the Wards should very much protect against the Others permakill effect, Robb shouldn't be any harder to resurrect, than if he had been killed by a horse trampling him.
 
A_Somebody said:
*and honestly I kinda raise my eyebrows at the whole "Westeros thinks girls are 100% grown at 13" thing. What happens to Sansa in the books is definitely not the norm, and we see Catelyn who during peacetime/more normal times had an early betrothal but a marriage set much later in life.
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Look, this is pointless. I was nodding toward the fact that there are absolutely no standards in Westeros other than what is politically convenient at the time for the patriarchal culture. See Genna's immediate marriage rather than betrothal as a preteen.

And she's in the same position as Lyanna.

We can't make base assumptions based on tertiary or biased PoVs from canon's era regarding Sansa, or indeed only Lyanna's secondhand experiences, but we can posit that sketchy shit has been spotted all throughout the histories and one can suppose since it mostly gets brought up like the squick with Jaehaerys and his daughters and wife, or with Daemon Targaryen and Laena or indeed Criston "The Motherfucker" Cole that these are skirted all the time at the highest level, which the parties mentioned definitely belong to, and with the total lack of standards at that level except what people in power at the time are comfortable with deem right and lawful, which can indeed still include sketchy shit, it's even worse where people aren't looking.
 
... we should probably yoink Robert's body in case the enemy can unwillingly raise him and taint public perception of resurrection for everyone.

I don't imagine he has a patron god watching over his soul at the moment.
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
... we should probably yoink Robert's body in case the enemy can unwillingly raise him and taint public perception of resurrection for everyone.

I don't imagine he has a patron god watching over his soul at the moment.
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Well, this is all about to be rather moot, what with King's Landing coming into our possession very soon, and us honestly having our hands tied behind our back with regards to our priorities right now.

The only reason I'm advocating for seeing Stark right now is because, IC, Viserys would absolutely want to check over Winterfell to make sure Jon is safe, and it is politically solvent to do so now with Robert dead. And secondly, I am now greatly concerned Luwin is part of the Conspiracy and want to confirm that, as it could potentially fuck us over if we leave that alone in this delicate time, divided loyalties or no.

Thirdly, we're only going over to quickly ascertain the situation and mostly put the fine points of the talks on hold for as long as they can be, because we can't discuss a political situation that by and large hasn't yet been resolved, nor can we fully present our fait accompli to the Starks while making war in the South, or worse, even before that is finished.

Finally, we have a Feylord to hunt down, and a Dusk Dancer to hoist by her own petard.
 
[X] Azel

@Azel maybe add possibly talking to Lyanna as well once news of Robert comes? Either so she can be put to rest finally or, and you likely don't like idea, revive her?
 
Goldfish said:
It plays to his strengths. And might strip a layer or two off Winterfell's wards.
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"Ser Richard, what purpose do you serve at this meeting?"

Ned: "That's not--"

Richard: "Lord Stark, I'm your baseline."

Viserys: "He means control case in our study."

Richard: "Right. Basically, I am the most loyal man in service to His Grace."

Richard: "If I think something is suspicious, it very quickly stops."

Ned: "Stops being suspicious?"

Richard: "Either because it stops moving or doing anything useful while I'm around, or because it stops."

Viserys: "I also have a four year old on-hand to tell me any obvious faults or flaws in my plans, and a token evil minion who strains the edgemost limits of their oaths nearby at all times."

Ned: "...why?"

Viserys, pointing out very quite reasonably: "Well, I don't have assassins crawling through my Keeps constantly, or traitors advising me. Probably because I have people who can spot treachery, stupidity and someone to act as a test-bed for stupidity and treachery."

Ned, to Richard: "And you serve this man?"

Richard: "He's not been particularly wrong by my own exacting standards."

Ned: "His father murdered my family! And his brother started it all!"

Richard: "Yes, and they're dead, and the fruits of all your collective fuckery is in evidence today."

Viserys: "It's hard to argue with that..."

Ned: ☹
 
I'm still hoping we can get Richard to cleave boulders in half.

To those with enough knowledge in the mechanics of D&D, how many shots can he deflect per round, if he concentrates in only doing that?
 
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