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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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justlove said:
Yeah gonna have to agree with dragon paradox on this one, Lyanna was stupid but she was also young and scared and while that doesn't make her blameless she does get some forgiveness.

Rickard by contrast was supposed to be the Lord paramount and should have gone with a great procession and called in the Tullys and Arryns before charging in.
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Also Brandon't idiocy reflects poorly on him since he was the heir. It is much the same case as with Tywin and the twins. A noble lord's legacy has a lot tied up in their children.
 
So long as Lyanna gets the hell out of poor Jon's head I don't care about her.

Anyway, we need to check to make sure Robb wasn't Soul-killed. It should be divineable. @DragonParadox?
 
Lyanna should be getting some blame. And just because there were others that were worse doesn't really make hers less bad. She was in the age group that she should know what she is doing.
 
I think we might be able to pay up to some god to bring Robb back if he was soft-soul killed.

Yes, I'm using that term because there is the intermediate category of "can only be brought back with miracle" exists, like getting eaten by barghests.
 
Tomcost said:
I think we might be able to pay up to some god to bring Robb back if he was soft-soul killed.

Yes, I'm using that term because there is the intermediate category of "can only be brought back with miracle" exists, like getting eaten by barghests.
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Not going to lie, I hope there's something a little extra involved in getting Robb back, if that's even possible. A Stark being slain by the Others within the very walls of Winterfell...that's got some heavy resonance and history behind it, imo. It ought to very difficult to undo.
 
[X] Plan Diplomatic Offense
-[X] Whom to take along and why:
--[X] Viserys - Talking with Ned about the urgent matters at hand and general politics. Take a long the remaining items in the pile earmarked for sacrifice, in case you will need them.
--[X] Rhealla - Talking with Catelyn, since she knows what it's like to lose family.
--[X] Dany - Talking with Jon, since she has somewhat of a friendship with him, and has experience with dead brothers.
--[X] Richard - To stand in the corner and scowl.
--[X] Rina and Vee - Look over the attackers corpse and scan the keep for signs of it's activities. How it got in, other victims, potential traps left behind and so on.
---[X] Pop a quick Divination to check that Rina won't be recognized as hostile by the wards. If she is, bring Lya instead.
-[X] First and foremost, offer you condolence for the events that transpired.
-[X] Get his permission to check Winterfell for further intruders and other surprises left behind (Rina and Vee) while getting Dany to Jon under the pretense of debriefing him to not arouse too much suspicion about how they know each other.
-[X] Divine if Robb can be resurrected:
--[X] If yes, offer him to see if you can resurrect his son, with the caveat that the nature of the creature that killed him might have made that impossible. Results you got when attempting to resurrect persons killed by or connected to the void varied. Worst case, his soul is gone for good and you will only animate they body as a wight. (Insist on calling it "the body" in this context, so that he and Catelyn get it into their head that their son is nor a pile of meat and vice versa, just in case that really happens.)
---[X] Toss as many sacrifices as necessary on that project.
--[X] If not, throw the book at them what the Others are, why they are bad news and that they can kill something beyond all recovery. If they still insist or give off the impression of trying anyway, offer them to do so, but tell them flat out that you will likely just animate the body as a Wight since their son is gone for good.
-[X] Since the Starks apparently haven't gotten the newest Imperial Times from Wintertown yet, bring a few copies along to hand them out when the topic comes to Robert.
-[X] Also divine why Ned didn't receive the news yet and if Maester Luwyn is trustworthy.
 
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MickOfTime said:
Not going to lie, I hope there's something a little extra involved in getting Robb back, if that's even possible. A Stark being slain by the Others within the very walls of Winterfell...that's got some heavy resonance and history behind it, imo. It ought to very difficult to undo.
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We just murdered multiple mythic-level god-like fey from afar by pouring tons of fiend blood on a crown.

I'm sure that we will need less to resurrect a kid killed in his oh so powerful keep, by a low level Winter servant.

Either that or maybe we can carry the body to Bloodraven himself. That's gotta be a nice traumatizing experience for the kid.
 
Tomcost said:
We just murdered multiple mythic-level god-like fey from afar by pouring tons of fiend blood on a crown.

I'm sure that we will need less to resurrect a kid killed in his oh so powerful keep, by a low level Winter servant.

Either that or maybe we can carry the body to Bloodraven himself. That's gotta be a nice traumatizing experience for the kid.
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Oh, I don't doubt we can pull it off. It just ought to be a bit tougher than, "We True Rez Robb."
 
DragonParadox said:
Also Brandon't idiocy reflects poorly on him since he was the heir. It is much the same case as with Tywin and the twins. A noble lord's legacy has a lot tied up in their children.
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Really the situation in general was rather fucked, you have Tyrell who didn't give a shit how many people died, just saw an opportunity to shuffle the board around a bit to a more advantageous position, you had Robert who was just thinking with his dick, Rhaegar who was thinking with his other head but with a brain full of dick, Aerys who was batshit insane.

Tywin who just wanted revenge and didn't care how big the body pile had to be to get it, Rickard who was arrogant and assumed he could get Aerys to calm the hell down as was the purpose of his southron scheming with Arryn and Tully (and he clearly didn't trust Tywin as he didn't include him in the STAB alliance prior to the Rebellion because of Lannister's history for being a poor ally.

He was the only one seemingly aware of this prior to Tywin taking his Reynes and Tarbecks bullshit and trying to peddle it on a Royal scale. Arryn was admittedly in a rotten position during the Rebellion, but his great mistakes came directly after it by trying to "keep the peace" without thinking toward the long-term at all, and he had equal problems with arrogance and assumptions as Rickard had, disdained trade, and allowed treachery to foment all around and beneath him.

Hoster was trying to broker alliances to basically go behind all of his Bannermen's backs because they are admittedly prickly assholes who don't really respect him as much as other Kingdoms respect their overlords, not considering that calling for help from either of them if it was actually necessary might be A) impractical in changing political climate and B) would weaken his position afterward because it required outside intervention to manage his own vassals. The alliance was only good to protect from Tywin, the one most likely to bother going psychopathic rampage on them for virtually any reason. And obviously it did not work out since his own Vassals could fuck that alliance over at any time.

Practically the only people I don't blame in this whole mess is the Dornish (surprisingly) and to a lesser extent Quellon, but then he somehow was a reformist who raised a bunch of idiots, vicious assholes or idiotic vicious assholes. So... nevermind, just the Dornish.
 
MickOfTime said:
Oh, I don't doubt we can pull it off. It just ought to be a bit tougher than, "We True Rez Robb."
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Of course. I think that getting truly soul killed will be difficult in a low level scenario like this. I mean, it is Winter's thing, but I doubt most mooks have access to that. Snow White had to literally have Bobby agree to die by snu-snu for it to work, so it can't be that widespread.
 
Azel said:
[X] Plan Diplomatic Offense
-[X] Whom to take along and why:
--[X] Viserys - Talking with Ned about the urgent matters at hand and general politics. Take a long the remaining items in the pile earmarked for sacrifice, in case you will need them.
--[X] Rhealla - Talking with Catelyn, since she knows what it's like to lose family.
--[X] Dany - Talking with Jon, since she has somewhat of a friendship with him, and has experience with dead brothers.
--[X] Richard - To stand in the corner and scowl.
--[X] Rina and Vee - Look over the attackers corpse and scan the keep for signs of it's activities. How it got in, other victims, potential traps left behind and so on.
-[X] First and foremost, offer you condolence for the events that transpired.
-[X] Get his permission to check Winterfell for further intruders and other surprises left behind (Rina and Vee) while getting Dany to Jon under the pretense of debriefing him to not arouse too much suspicion about how they know each other.
-[X] Divine if Robb can be resurrected:
--[X] If yes, offer him to see if you can resurrect his son, with the caveat that the nature of the creature that killed him might have made that impossible. Results you got when attempting to resurrect persons killed by or connected to the void varied. Worst case, his soul is gone for good and you will only animate they body as a wight. (Insist on calling it "the body" in this context, so that he and Catelyn get it into their head that their son is nor a pile of meat and vice versa, just in case that really happens.)
---[X] Toss as many sacrifices as necessary on that project.
--[X] If not, throw the book at them what the Others are, why they are bad news and that they can kill something beyond all recovery. If they still insist or give off the impression of trying anyway, offer them to do so, but tell them flat out that you will likely just animate the body as a Wight since their son is gone for good.
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Maybe take a look at the wards of Winterfell as well, see if they're actually operating the way they're supposed to? Or if they could be improved upon, if that's possible?

Oops.

[X] Azel
 
Azel said:
[X] Plan Diplomatic Offense
-[X] Whom to take along and why:
--[X] Viserys - Talking with Ned about the urgent matters at hand and general politics. Take a long the remaining items in the pile earmarked for sacrifice, in case you will need them.
--[X] Rhealla - Talking with Catelyn, since she knows what it's like to lose family.
--[X] Dany - Talking with Jon, since she has somewhat of a friendship with him, and has experience with dead brothers.
--[X] Richard - To stand in the corner and scowl.
--[X] Rina and Vee - Look over the attackers corpse and scan the keep for signs of it's activities. How it got in, other victims, potential traps left behind and so on.
-[X] First and foremost, offer you condolence for the events that transpired.
-[X] Get his permission to check Winterfell for further intruders and other surprises left behind (Rina and Vee) while getting Dany to Jon under the pretense of debriefing him to not arouse too much suspicion about how they know each other.
-[X] Divine if Robb can be resurrected:
--[X] If yes, offer him to see if you can resurrect his son, with the caveat that the nature of the creature that killed him might have made that impossible. Results you got when attempting to resurrect persons killed by or connected to the void varied. Worst case, his soul is gone for good and you will only animate they body as a wight. (Insist on calling it "the body" in this context, so that he and Catelyn get it into their head that their son is nor a pile of meat and vice versa, just in case that really happens.)
---[X] Toss as many sacrifices as necessary on that project.
--[X] If not, throw the book at them what the Others are, why they are bad news and that they can kill something beyond all recovery. If they still insist or give off the impression of trying anyway, offer them to do so, but tell them flat out that you will likely just animate the body as a Wight since their son is gone for good.
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Isn't taking Rina along kind of a bad idea, given the wards and their reaction to stuff the more Winter-y they are?

Winterfell was created after the Long Night IIRC so I don't think they'd think to differentiate between just Winter and Void presence.

Maybe wanna divine that ahead of time--or just have her study the body outside the wards.
 
Crake said:
Isn't taking Rina along kind of a bad idea, given the wards and their reaction to stuff the more Winter-y they are?

Winterfell was created after the Long Night IIRC so I don't think they'd think to differentiate between just Winter and Void presence.

Maybe wanna divine that ahead of time--or just have her study the body outside the wards.
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Added, with Lya as designated backup if necessary.
 
Azel said:
[X] Plan Diplomatic Offense
-[X] Whom to take along and why:
--[X] Viserys - Talking with Ned about the urgent matters at hand and general politics. Take a long the remaining items in the pile earmarked for sacrifice, in case you will need them.
--[X] Rhealla - Talking with Catelyn, since she knows what it's like to lose family.
--[X] Dany - Talking with Jon, since she has somewhat of a friendship with him, and has experience with dead brothers.
--[X] Richard - To stand in the corner and scowl.
--[X] Rina and Vee - Look over the attackers corpse and scan the keep for signs of it's activities. How it got in, other victims, potential traps left behind and so on.
-[X] First and foremost, offer you condolence for the events that transpired.
-[X] Get his permission to check Winterfell for further intruders and other surprises left behind (Rina and Vee) while getting Dany to Jon under the pretense of debriefing him to not arouse too much suspicion about how they know each other.
-[X] Divine if Robb can be resurrected:
--[X] If yes, offer him to see if you can resurrect his son, with the caveat that the nature of the creature that killed him might have made that impossible. Results you got when attempting to resurrect persons killed by or connected to the void varied. Worst case, his soul is gone for good and you will only animate they body as a wight. (Insist on calling it "the body" in this context, so that he and Catelyn get it into their head that their son is nor a pile of meat and vice versa, just in case that really happens.)
---[X] Toss as many sacrifices as necessary on that project.
--[X] If not, throw the book at them what the Others are, why they are bad news and that they can kill something beyond all recovery. If they still insist or give off the impression of trying anyway, offer them to do so, but tell them flat out that you will likely just animate the body as a Wight since their son is gone for good.
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I think Waymar would be a good addition to this group, considering that the Royce's are fairly close Stark allies, as such things go, with their housing of Sansa. He could stand in for Rina, who might attract the wrong kind of attention, given the situation.

Waymar might also be able to make something of Winterfell's wards, given his ancestral knowledge inherited from the First Men.

[X] Azel
 
Azel said:
-[X] Also divine why Ned didn't receive the news yet and if Maester Luwyn is trustworthy.
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I mean, true, Viserys might not know this, but we know Luwin is loyal to the Starks.

I guess that could have changed depending on his reaction to magic was, given he thought it was dead, I just was never given the impression he was part of the Conspiracy or more concerned with Citadel partisan squabbling compared to genuinely serving his assigned Lord as an unbiased advisor/observer.
 
Azel said:
-[X] Since the Starks apparently haven't gotten the newest Imperial Times from Wintertown yet, bring a few copies along to hand them out when the topic comes to Robert.
-[X] Also divine why Ned didn't receive the news yet and if Maester Luwyn is trustworthy.
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Added this since we might as well bring the written account of what killed Robert, who did it, why and who boned whom in the Red Keep, with proof attached.

Also, I'm suspicious of Luwyn. The news should have reached Winterfell already.
 
Crake said:
I mean, true, Viserys might not know this, but we know Luwin is loyal to the Starks.

I guess that could have changed depending on his reaction to magic was, given he thought it was dead, I just was never given the impression he was part of the Conspiracy or more concerned with Citadel partisan squabbling compared to genuinely serving his assigned Lord as an unbiased advisor/observer.
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I'd rather not take any chances. Stark was startlingly late on the magic game, even for the North, given that Manderly had his own casters on retainer years ago.
 
Azel said:
Also, I'm suspicious of Luwyn. The news should have reached Winterfell already.
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I'm going to shit a brick if the next update is, "Hm, you know, that is suspicious," and then: You reach for the Dragon Dream, but all you can see is grey mist... greyer than a Maester's robes.
 
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