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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DragonParadox said:
They are not your vassals yet. That said how Viserys reacts is up to you guys.
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This is where we differ. By de jure law of succession, Robert Baratheon is an usurper, Aegon planted the Tyrells on their seat, and Viserys is owed their fealty by birthright.

And even if we abandon all sense and throw legalism into the dirt and trample all over it then burn the carcass of the horse already beaten, we have the bigger stick. We have played the game, gave people a chance to come to us in good faith.

This very day we showed we are very, very willing to call a bluff and we are more resourceful than just about anyone when it comes to destroying our enemies.

Trying this tack is a bad idea. Being grandfathered in under the old system is playing it safe. Arguing you don't owe us your fealty?

To quote another person in this thread: "Just fucking die already."
 
[X] Crake

We still have the Tyrells by their financial balls, right? We can afford to be generous as long as they acknowledge Viserys is their rightful king and work with us. If they try anything funny, we can always repo their castle.
 
I hope the Fey realize just how much worse they made their bargaining position by allying with someone who just narrowly avoided our shit list.
 
QueenPally said:
[X] Crake

We still have the Tyrells by their financial balls, right? We can afford to be generous as long as they acknowledge Viserys is their rightful king and work with us. If they try anything funny, we can always repo their castle.
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Yeah, I'm just done playing around with that. When we learn about this IC, I'm going to tell them to go fuck themselves.

I'm done. I've had it with motherfucking Tyrells in this motherfucking quest.

They can bend the knee or they can burn in the Nine Hells.
 
Crake said:
That's all patently untrue. All lore gets submitted to the archives once fealty is pledged/a realm is annexed. It's in our fucking charter.

There is no "lore that other Lords don't have access to" in our Realm, because everything is useful, therefore everything is utilized by our system. That's an innate advantage compared to various cabals hoarding their own shit.
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You miss the point. The idea isn't to keep a private library. It's to be able to ask those Fey questions when everyone else has to send someone to trawl through SD libraries and hope the stuff is there. It's being able to more easily trade for Fey goods, more easily hire Fey allies... Sure everyone has access to SD and extraplanar markets, but that's just not the same thing as having trusted allies to trade with and ask for advice.

Crake said:
This is where we differ. By de jure law of succession, Robert Baratheon is an usurper, Aegon planted the Tyrells on their seat, and Viserys is owed their fealty by birthright.

And even if we abandon all sense and throw legalism into the dirt and trample all over it then burn the carcass of the horse already beaten, we have the bigger stick. We have played the game, gave people a chance to come to us in good faith.

This very day we showed we are very, very willing to call a bluff and we are more resourceful than just about anyone when it comes to destroying our enemies.

Trying this tack is a bad idea. Being grandfathered in under the old system is playing it safe. Arguing you don't owe us your fealty?

To quote another person in this thread: "Just fucking die already."
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This is OOC. We've always held the position that we can't consider them our vassals before they've sworn to us.
I'll vote against such an approach though.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
You miss the point. The idea isn't to keep a private library. It's to be able to ask those Fey questions when everyone else has to send someone to trawl through SD libraries and hope the stuff is there. It's being able to more easily trade for Fey goods, more easily hire Fey allies... Sure everyone has access to SD and extraplanar markets, but that's just not the same thing as having trusted allies to trade with and ask for advice.


This is OOC. We've always held the position that we can't consider them our vassals before they've sworn to us.
I'll vote against such an approach though.
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What more is there to say? I am not giving them a goddamn thing. Clearly, if they are still playing games after this, they are suicidal. I don't want that kind of vassal in my kingdom. You are off your goddamn rocker if you think I'm in the wrong here.
 
While we are on the subject of killing the Tyrells, can I put forth the notion to reward Highgarden to Dicken Tarly (Randylls Tarlys second son)As a reward for coming to us himself during our tourney, then going out of his way to increasing royal influence in the Reach. Competent and loyal men like him deserve a reward.
 
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Crake said:
What more is there to say? I am not giving them a goddamn thing. Clearly, if they are still playing games after this, they are suicidal. I don't want that kind of vassal in my kingdom. You are off your goddamn rocker if you think I'm in the wrong here.
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What do you mean by "playing games", exactly? Please elaborate.
 
Azurath said:
While we are on the subject of killing the Tyrells, can I put forth the notion to reward Highgarden to Dicken Tarly? As a reward for coming to us himself during our tourney, then going out of his way to increasing royal influence in the Reach. Competent and loyal men like him deserve a reward.
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Pretty sure you mean Randyll, not his infant son.

And that's a bad idea, he already has a major seat, and he's already one of the most powerful lords in our realm, by just about every metric you can weight that.

I would rather just repurpose it into a military base or even just level it so that no one argues about it anymore.
 
Guys, it's really late for me and I have to turn in soon so I'll just leave you with this, the Tyrells are not currently trying to play a game against you, they are trying to give you a tribute of sort to retain power and relevance. I say this so things don't get heated overnight for no reaosn
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
What do you mean by "playing games", exactly? Please elaborate.
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What do you call trying to leverage their relationship with splintered factions, only one of which we are not presently in conflict with, in order to squeeze more out of us in return for something I pretty much expect, at minimum, by the circumstance we find both our Houses engaged in?

They have been nothing but faithless traitors. What makes House Tyrell so special in this thread that people are all over shitting on fuckheads like Aedon or even Aurane Waters, but because Mace and Olenna are "oh so clever" their motivations and position is diametrically different?

This is just scale. I find the entire situation they forced us into contemptible. I am furious at the notion of allowing terms to be dictated to us by them.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Guys, it's really late for me and I have to turn in soon so I'll just leave you with this, the Tyrells are not currently trying to play a game against you, they are trying to give you a tribute of sort to retain power and relevance. I say this so things don't get heated overnight for no reaosn
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I'm sorry, but I've just been frustrated about this subject for years, most of my anti-Tyrell comments aren't really jokes.

I can crack a joke about a lot, but this has always had a niggling feeling in the back of my head that when the chips come down people are going to play pokemon with the set of characters I cannot countenance being driven that low toward.
 
DragonParadox said:
Guys, it's really late for me and I have to turn in soon so I'll just leave you with this, the Tyrells are not currently trying to play a game against you, they are trying to give you a tribute of sort to retain power and relevance. I say this so things don't get heated overnight for no reaosn
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That's kind of the problem. We were very deliberately curbing that power in our balkanization. If they're scheming to retain it, we should be looking at:
1. Figuring out how else to curb the Tyrells
2. Deciding if the Blue Court still needs to exist
 
DragonParadox said:
Guys, it's really late for me and I have to turn in soon so I'll just leave you with this, the Tyrells are not currently trying to play a game against you, they are trying to give you a tribute of sort to retain power and relevance. I say this so things don't get heated overnight for no reaosn
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Except it's not a tribute of any sort. We would've gained a better deal if we had dealt with each court separately, not as one unified block. All their doing is muddling the waters by wanting to be a middleman in a negotiation where they have no place.

Edit: IE, if they wanted to hand us the courts on a platter then they should've came to us first instead of the Fey.
 
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Either way, we'll see how they spin this IC. If it's bad enough we'll figure out the logistics of wiping out the Azure Court.
 
[X] Crake

Viserys: "You come to me, on the day I am to be crowned King, and ask for favors."

Wyllas: "Yes, Lord."

Viserys: "I understand. You found paradise in Highgarden, had a good realm, made a good living. The fey protected you; and there were "courts" of law. And you didn't need a friend of me. But uh, now you come to me and you say -- "King Viserys give me mercy." -- But you don't ask with respect. You don't offer friendship. You don't even keep your oaths. Instead, you come into my house on the day my coronation, and you uh ask me for mercy."

Wyllas: "..."
 
Duesal said:
That's why it's the last resort. We'll see how drastically the Tyrells are about to overstep and how much of their influence and power they're scheming to retain.
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Just, how can we countenance giving them the same provisions and considerations as we gave to House Martell, one which swore to us first and fought for our House to the last, despite all the horrors forced upon them?

I am 10000% done with that. I will have no more arguments over why this is even allowed to exist in the same hemisphere as anything we have to do with. I would rather not look at Westeros than look at House Tyrell which actively meddles and interferes in our business, as they have proven to do, even by the very act of "trying to offer us tribute" by interfering with our own negotiations and attempting to weaken our respective bargaining position not even twenty-four hours after a homicidal rampage which slaughtered hundreds of Fey.

Why would we want anything to do with that? That's not sane.

Maybe we're not sane, but we're also not stupid.
 
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Crake said:
Just, how can we countenance giving them the same provisions and considerations as we gave to House Martell, one which swore to us first and fought for our House to the last, despite all the horrors forced upon them?

I am 10000% done with that. I will have no more arguments over why this is even allowed to exist in the same hemisphere as anything we have to do with. I would rather not look at Westeros then look at House Tyrell which actively meddles and interferes in our business, as they have proven to do, even by the very act of "trying to offer us tribute" by interfering with our own negotiations and attempting to weaken our respective bargaining position not even twenty-four hours after a homicidal rampage which slaughtered hundreds of Fey.

Why would we want anything to do with that? That's not sane.

Maybe we're not sane, but we're also not stupid.
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Crake, I am 1000% behind you here. I mostly want to see Mace and Olenna spew this bullshit to our faces before I figure out how venomously we refuse.
 
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