A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
Ace of Scarabs
Mechanoid Pilot
- Location
- Singapore
[X] Goldfish
- Location
- India
- Pronouns
- He/His
I feel @Acolyte has an extremely calid point and that DP is being harassed over something that is not an issue at all. These arguments just suck the fun out of any updates that I try to enjoy. I didnt see anything wrong with the previous update. What, how is DP supposed to foreshadow anything when the very action of foreshadowing gets the insane and stupid argument of not warning people about it. And when he just tries to give us plenty of warning, people just accuse him of removing the tension in his own story. So maybe DP should just write updates where he states "And Viserys won again, forever". All these arguments are just written by people who dont know how to enjoy a story without gucking overanalyzing everything about it.
I am not defending DP, he has made his feelings on the matter clear.
No I was pointing out that you should at least let the even play out before being pissed off. It helps nobody if you start bitching at the first sign of any sort of deviation from the plan. Frankly, any narrative where we didn't face difficulties would be much less fun than now.
Also, no, everything doesn't need foreshadowing. Some things do just come out of the left field and should be complete surprise, like some being having the ability to stack demiplanes.
Like how do you propose he foreshadow it without spoiling the fun.
And my second point was that we will always face difficulties no matter how well we prepare, because that's the inherent feature of the type of game we are playing.
- Location
- Germany
The accusation that, of all the people, I am supposedly against having a challenge is extremely rich. To say nothing about the rampant strawmanning going on in these posts.
Firstly, @Crakes core grievance is that he feels his agency as a player is violated by this chain of events, which is a result of the Court of Stars being a constant and repeated source of sudden surprises that regularly came out of nowhere and disrupted player plans. Your insistence on litigating this specific instance is missing the wider pattern and thus fails to acknowledge the slow buildup of frustration that came to head now. Your view of the grievances of Crake and others is superficial.
Secondly, this is a problem that you can not understand since your relationship to this thread is different then Crakes and you are unwilling or unable to emphasis with him. Crake is an active player of a game, who makes plans and has a stake in seeing them come to fruition. You on the other hand are a passive consumer of a story, who does not involve himself to any great degree in planning or discussions. Which is a perfectly fine way to interact with this thread, but you fail to appreciate the difference in kind of your interaction pattern with that of others.
Instead, you act as if your form of interaction is the only valid one and attack others for having different engagement and thus opinions on events.
If you want to argue with people here, then I would ask you to engage with their arguments and standpoints instead of spreading toxicity by misrepresenting their positions and grievances, regardless of if you do this out of laziness or malice.
I have given a detailed analysis of why people felt the way they feel and how things could have been done differently to avoid these problems. If you don't want to engage with that, please do me a favour and refrain from insulting hot takes about what other people do, feel and argue. This post of yours has provided nothing of value except intentionally antagonising other people here by telling them to shut up.
Did you actually read my arguments and analysis? Because you seem very engrossed in arguing that strawman of yours without actually engaging with the people around you. Your argumentation is not addressing any of the underlying reasons of the frustration, instead aiming to dunk on people.
Firstly, @Crakes core grievance is that he feels his agency as a player is violated by this chain of events, which is a result of the Court of Stars being a constant and repeated source of sudden surprises that regularly came out of nowhere and disrupted player plans. Your insistence on litigating this specific instance is missing the wider pattern and thus fails to acknowledge the slow buildup of frustration that came to head now. Your view of the grievances of Crake and others is superficial.
Secondly, this is a problem that you can not understand since your relationship to this thread is different then Crakes and you are unwilling or unable to emphasis with him. Crake is an active player of a game, who makes plans and has a stake in seeing them come to fruition. You on the other hand are a passive consumer of a story, who does not involve himself to any great degree in planning or discussions. Which is a perfectly fine way to interact with this thread, but you fail to appreciate the difference in kind of your interaction pattern with that of others.
Instead, you act as if your form of interaction is the only valid one and attack others for having different engagement and thus opinions on events.
If you want to argue with people here, then I would ask you to engage with their arguments and standpoints instead of spreading toxicity by misrepresenting their positions and grievances, regardless of if you do this out of laziness or malice.
What analysis, I genuinely haven't seen that post. Would be happy to address your points if you could point it out to me.
- Location
- Germany
@Acolyte, here. Highlighted the important parts.
Core problem is the lack of agency of players and that the manner in which this was presented was a full, hard stop of the action. Which is a repeating pattern in DPs writing and a regular cause of frustration among active players.
- Location
- Germany
Might be a part of the short-but-many update strategy?
If the phenomenon and the analysis of the same had happened in the update that might have saved the salt.
- Location
- Germany
Yes and no. Short updates compound the issue, but the core issue is that DP presents problems often as "door is locked, what do?" instead of "door is locked, here is some relevant observations and theory".
The first one is fine for a tabletop round, but bad for a quest, since it leaves people to spin their wheels while having next to zero information.
Fair enough. That is a valid complaint. Sorry missrepresting you guys.
- Location
- Germany
But in this particular case looking over the problem was the obvious next step, so a longer update (or a second in short order following) would have helped.
So I've got a selection of items for Bronn now. I'm trying to keep it on the cheaper end so we can give him a few of these, but he's ultimately not important enough to justify giving him all of them.
Deadly Juggernaut: This is a level 3 spell that lasts 1 minute/CL. Every time you kill something within the duration you get a cumulative +1 luck bonus to melee attack, melee damage, strength checks, and strength based skill checks up to +5. You also get DR 2/- per kill, stacking to 10/-. I'm thinking a one or two a day item would work fine.
Blurred Movement: This is a level 1 item that lasts 1 minute/CL. It's basically blur, but only works while you're moving unless you've moved at least 10 ft. An item with uses a day matching the DJ one would pair well with his kit.
Death Knell Aura: This is a level 4 spell that lasts 1 round /CL. I know that items that let opponents make saves are usually trash, but this one might be an exception. It basically casts death knell on everyone in the AoE that qualifies, so all he needs is one or two people to get unlucky to get some substantial benefits.
I'm still looking for some stuff to work better with his luck theme, but I'm having trouble finding things that are worth the enchantment time.
Deadly Juggernaut: This is a level 3 spell that lasts 1 minute/CL. Every time you kill something within the duration you get a cumulative +1 luck bonus to melee attack, melee damage, strength checks, and strength based skill checks up to +5. You also get DR 2/- per kill, stacking to 10/-. I'm thinking a one or two a day item would work fine.
Blurred Movement: This is a level 1 item that lasts 1 minute/CL. It's basically blur, but only works while you're moving unless you've moved at least 10 ft. An item with uses a day matching the DJ one would pair well with his kit.
Death Knell Aura: This is a level 4 spell that lasts 1 round /CL. I know that items that let opponents make saves are usually trash, but this one might be an exception. It basically casts death knell on everyone in the AoE that qualifies, so all he needs is one or two people to get unlucky to get some substantial benefits.
I'm still looking for some stuff to work better with his luck theme, but I'm having trouble finding things that are worth the enchantment time.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Deadly Juggernaut is one we've talked about before for Richard and some of our other melee folks. It would be a good effect for them, Bronn included. I think it might make a nice scabbard upgrade?
Blurred Movement is a great 1st level spell, but we can easily afford to just give our higher tier people Minor Cloaks of Displacement so they can benefit from the Blur effect as needed.
- Location
- France
Vote closed
Interlude CMXXII: Shadows Yet to Be
Shadows Yet to Be
Ninth Day of the Third Month 294 AC
The Shadow Lord sat in judgement in a hall at once mortal and otherworldly. Bands of iron too thin or too deep for mortal picks to reach ran through the walls and through his no longer royal throne ran a thread of Bane Iron unseen but felt, like the prick of a dagger at the edge of his thoughts. The flicker of pain concentrated the mind, bound one to the ever-tumbling now so that he would not forget himself. Not again.
Never again
He would not forget, not again. He would not lose himself. He would not see the wanderers tumble from shadow to darkness. Too many had been lost already. "And what of the light, what might pain and Sundering bring onto them when the hour draws near?"
Too near
The inquisitor of the Dragon King pledged to a realm unborn read the reports of beings from tongues mortal and immortal and found them grim in the telling. Too much had been lost already. The past could not be born again, the fortress of snow white boughs and bloody leaves would not be enough. The wanderers had learned much in their exile, through the Wild Lands, but more yet had the Lost become, for in the void beyond all life there were no limits to how high one might fly.
He had seen the Broken Sky with his own eyes and knew not how it might be mended, but one thing the Lord-Upon-Iron knew, the world could not turn back to what it was. Perhaps he was hastening the end of the tale, but if that was so then in the end there would be none to damn his name, but if the Young King was right, if fire burned true, than he would be remembered onto eternity in glory for his forethought.
It is Done
Less so than the pestiferous little sprite, born of a drunken midnight jape. The flicker of annoyance was almost pleasing, the same way the sting from a shallow cut upon the palm could distract one from the ache of old wounds. He wondered how many of his more raucous subjects he could persuade that a life among the stars was better than one bound beneath the earth. The idea of gremlins under military discipline was vastly entertaining.
***
The Shadow Lord could feel the King stepping into his domain, the approaching pulse of flame like the beat up his own heart bound by pledges given and accepted. He rose from his seat and gave courtesies fair by the measure of the Secret City and could read upon his face a faint amusement that mirrored his own self. The danthienne would swarm again tonight.
"I've come to bring you a mighty beast as you have asked, a creature forged by the finest arts of my sorcerers, able to hunt swift as the night wind and know thine thoughts as though they were its own..."
Sensing the beast's approach the Lord allowed the floor of the throne room to fall away, save for where those of his subjects who could not fly stood or sat. It was exquisite, draconic wings flowing into feline grace, in perfect synergy, yet clearly a creature beyond the mundane daylight world. A hunter without fear, his eyes like moonlight shinning.
He wonder if he might visit Her of the Silver Bells upon this, the thought was tinted with the disdain of prideful divinities, but not dismissed out of hand. The Secret City was Hers as much as it could be said to belong to any power and this was the dawn of a new age, however short or long it might prove to be.
"A bargain stands fulfilled," he proclaimed, turning his thoughts from inner musings. He would not miss the shadow that fell upon the floor before the Young King. After all, as his vassal the Shadow Lord could no longer use the shade to scry his doings and know his deeds, even if it had been those very glimpses into a dark mirror that had half-persuaded him to make the pledge before the offer had even crossed his lips.
What does the Young King do with the Shadow?
[] Consume it at once (+5,000 XP)
[] Bind it to flesh and purpose (Use it as the soul of a flesh-forged creation, starts at lvl 5, can be raised up to lvl 9 by paying twice Lya's incarnate upgrade price)
-[] The Doppelganger (An incarnate who can serve as a stand in at court or other instances)
-[] The High Priest (Cleric who can call upon Imperial symbols for power; helpful for structuring and strengthening the faith from the start)
-[] Write in
[] Bind it to matter to create an intelligent item
-[] Write in
[] Write in
OOC: Yes, the Orphne king was scrying you through the Shadow intermittently over the years (up until he swore to you when it would be a breach of oaths), but since he is not going to tell you so in character I figured this might be a good moment to see his PoV. It also helps to contrast the perspective of a truly old fey to someone like Moonsong. Also, I realize that lvl 5 is actually twice as much XP as you would get by eating it, but then that much XP on the already high level Viserys is harder to get than a low to mid-level character or a minor artifact.
Last edited:
- Location
- United States
...
Well, conclusions.
1. Good thing we made it a point to vassalize the Orphne Lord the second we were able
2. This proves all my fears of pieces of us getting away from our control. He bypassed our Mind Blank using our shadow.
3. This is why we should just eat our shadow instead of letting it get away again. It is a loose end.
[X] Consume it at once (+5000 XP)
I should make a note here. If you make the shadow its own being it will not resonate with you enough to serve as a scrying focus anymore than Lya's arcanums do. When a piece of a soul is put to a new purpose it becomes more its own entity and not just part of the progenitor.
- Location
- United States
It sounds interesting, but if we really want that line of research there are other options for us. The Orphne Court is ours now. We can just ask the fey there to shave off someone's shadow and use that for whatever research we want. We have no need to use our own shadow.
Also I just want that XP. It's hard getting huge bursts of XP these days.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Shadows Yet to Be
Ninth Day of the Third Month 294 AC
The Shadow Lord sat in judgement in a hall at once mortal and otherworldly. Bands of iron too thin or too deep for mortal picks to reach ran through the walls and through his throne no longer royal ran a thread of Bane Iron unseen but felt, like the prick of a dagger at the edge of his thoughts. The flicker of pain concentrated the mind, bound one to the ever-tumbling now that he would not forget himself. Not again.
Never again
He would not forget, not again. He would not lose himself, he would not see the wanderers tumble from shadow to darkness. Too many had been lost already. "And what of the light, what might pain and Sundering bring unto them when the hour draws near?"
Too near
The inquisitor of the Dragon King pledged to a realm unborn read the reports of beings from tongues mortal and immortal and found them grim in the telling. Too much had been lost already. The past could not be born again, the fortress of snow white boughs and bloody leaves would not be enough. The wanderers had learned much in their exile through the Wild Lands, but more yet had the Lost become, for in the void beyond all life there were no limits to how high one might fly.
He had seen the Broken Sky with his own eyes and knew not how it might be mended, but one thing the Lord-Upon-Iron knew, the world could not turn back to what it was. Perhaps he was hastening the end of the tale, but if that was so then in the end there would be none to damn his name. If the Young King was right, however, if fire burned true, then he would be remembered unto eternity in glory for his forethought.
It is Done
Less so than the pestiferous little sprite, born of a drunken midnight jape. The flicker of annoyance was almost pleasing, the way the sting a shallow cut upon the palm could distract one from the ache of old wounds. He wondered how many of his more raucous subjects he could persuade that a life among the stars was better than one bound beneath the earth. The idea of gremlins under military discipline was vastly entertaining.
***
The Shadow Lord could feel the King stepping into his domain, the approaching pulse of flame like the beat of his own heart bound by pledges given and accepted. He rose from his seat and gave courtesies fair by the measure of the Secret City and could read upon his face a faint amusement that mirrored his own self. The danthienne would swarm again tonight.
"I come to bring you a mighty beast as you have asked, a creature forged by the finest arts of my sorcerers, able to hunt swift as the night wind and know thine thoughts as though they were its own..."
Sensing the beast's approach, the Lord allowed the floor of the throne room to fall away, save for where those of his subjects who could not fly stood or sat. It was exquisite, draconic wings flowing into feline grace, in perfect synergy, yet clearly a creature beyond the mundane daylight world. A hunter without fear, his eyes like moonlight shining.
I wonder if I might visit Her of the Silver Bells upon this, the thought was tinted with the disdain of prideful divinities, but not dismissed out of hand. The Secret City was Hers as much as it could be said to belong to any power, and this was the dawn of a new age, however short or long it might prove to be.
"A bargain stands fulfilled," he proclaimed turning his thoughts from inner musings. He would not miss the shadow that fell upon the floor before the Young King. After all, as his vassal the Shadow Lord could no longer use the shade to scry his doings and know his deeds, even if it had been those very glimpses into a dark mirror that had half-persuaded him to make the pledge before the offer had even crossed his lips.
What does the Young King do with the Shadow?
[] Consume it at once (+5000 XP)
[] Bind it to flesh and purpose (Use it as the soul of a flesh-forged creation, starts at lvl 5, can be raised up to level 9 by paying twice Lya's incarnate upgrade price)
-[] The Doppelganger (An incarnate who can serve as a stand in at court or other instances)
-[] The High Priest (Cleric who can call upon Imperial symbols for power; helpful for structuring and strengthening the faith from the start)
-[] Write in
[] Bind it to matter to create an intelligent item
-[] Write in
[] Write in
OOC: Yes the Orphne king was scrying you through the shadow intermittently over the years (up until he swore to you when it would be a breach of oaths), but since he is not going to tell you so in character I figured this might be a good moment to see his PoV. It also helps to contrast the perspective of a truly old fey to someone like Moonsong. Also I realize that lvl 5 is actually twice as much XP as you would get by eating it, but then that much XP on the already high level Visrrys is harder to get than a low to mid level character or a minor artifact. Not yet edited.
Interesting POV here, and a neat glimpse into the Orphne Lord's thought processes. I'm not surprised he could use Viserys' shadow as a scrying focus, considering that it was basically a piece of his soul, but I don't think we ever considered that as a possibility back when we traded it.
I shouldn't be surprised that you could find a Dragon-winged shadow tiger picture. Ain't the internet grand? 🤓
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- Location
- United States
We did a lot of things that would make us scream back at the beginning of the quest.
