When would you recommend checking on the Beast-Paths? Never? Cause if you always recommend putting the military equipment first before securing the land Freddy holds. I could see you recommending never because the beast paths do not improve military equipment compared to a different action at any time (as shown in the last few turns).

Euh, you know that argument can become quite circular when it opens up to the possibility of the other side saying something like "When would you recommend upgrading the military equipment? Never? Cause if you always recommend putting the military expeditions first before equipping the armies Freddy leads. I could see you recommending never because the equipment do not deal with any threat compared to a different action at any time (as shown in the last few turns)."
 
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The main things I'm set on are burning down the Skaven city, making the tanks, being charitable but not TOO charitable, and not letting the organization that fucked up so badly handle and thus be allowed to cover up their mess.

The tanks are the culmination of decades of research, building up our engineering and manufacturing capabilities and going through successive research options.
 
Euh, you know that argument can become quite circular when it opens up to the possibility of the other side saying something like "When would you recommend upgrading the military equipment? Never? Cause if you always recommend putting the military expeditions first before equipping the armies Freddy leads. I could see you recommending never because the equipment do not deal with any threat compared to a different action at any time (as shown in the last few turns)."
I just don't know when we would take the beastpaths. The beastpaths are always going to have something else around them. Qeqre uses the logic that upgrading the army is beneficial to Ostland as an answer to allowing the beastpaths search to be delayed.

There is no end to the upgrades for the army that we are doing already. None at all. For the last few turns we have focused on our army upgrades already, there is visibly no end to upgrading the military equipment.
 
I may have missed the discussion, but can someone explain to me why we're taking the lighthouse vanity project now of all times? Spending money on that while squeezing others for money when everyone got hit in their ports looks really bad on us.
 
oh yeah, if we had the artillery technology to do it, leveling the place would be fantastic. But we're not going to be able to do that with cannonballs. You'd need explosive shells to really reduce a city to rubble without having to storm it.
There's plenty of stuff in a Skaven city that is explosive and/or flammable.

For the rest, we have Dwarven sappers, incendiary grenades and a an armoured heavy machinery equivalent in the Ogres on our side.

When would you recommend checking on the Beast-Paths? Never? Cause if you always recommend putting the military equipment first before securing the land Freddy holds. I could see you recommending never because the beast paths do not improve military equipment compared to a different action at any time (as shown in the last few turns).
When there isn't a major invasion looming would be a good time. Although, for example, I'd probably consider doing Beast-Paths over Cycler proliferation if the major campaign doesn't require us to rapidly cover a large distance.

I have recommended securing the land Freddy holds. For me, this has mainly taken the form of spending money on military equipment, spending money to make our settlements harder to siege down and trying to reduce the size of the Forest of Shadows.
The former two have been criticized as us seemingly never prioritizing profit, the latter has been joked as being my just wanting to kill trees.
 
I may have missed the discussion, but can someone explain to me why we're taking the lighthouse vanity project now of all times? Spending money on that while squeezing others for money when everyone got hit in their ports looks really bad on us.
I wasn't really paying attention to other people's answer for the "why".

Here's mine for why the lighthouse is fine if it's plan wins.

The Lighthouse will take time to finish building, not like it will be finished in one turn. Once it's done it will provide a trade boon. We are talking around six plus turns from now. That's enough time for other actions to be completed and other stewardship actions to finish as well. At that point trade at Ostland's coast becoming more lucrative to others would be valuable for us.

The Lighthouse isn't just a massive prestige project. It gives a light during nighttime, so something like a druchi black Ark should be able to be spotted during those times if a raiding fleet draws close in the dark. Improving the coastal defense is a positive to me.

edit: Wait, the lighthouse is a pretige project! That means the PC gains prestige, right? If so, prestige is valuable for the stuff Freddy can do and get away with. More prestige to push his law reforms for the empire can help us..
 
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I feel like if we want to find Beast-Paths easier we want to get the winged-scouts first. I assume with them finding the Beast-Paths odds get much better if not certain since they can literally find them from the air.
 
I wasn't really paying attention to other people's answer for the "why".

Here's mine for why the lighthouse is fine if it's plan wins.

The Lighthouse will take time to finish building, not like it will be finished in one turn. Once it's done it will provide a trade boon. We are talking around six plus turns from now. That's enough time for other actions to be completed and other stewardship actions to finish as well. At that point trade at Ostland's coast becoming more lucrative to others would be valuable for us.

The Lighthouse isn't just a massive prestige project. It gives a light during nighttime, so something like a druchi black Ark should be able to be spotted during those times if a raiding fleet draws close in the dark. Improving the coastal defense is a positive to me.

edit: Wait, the lighthouse is a pretige project! That means the PC gains prestige, right? If so, prestige is valuable for the stuff Freddy can do and get away with. More prestige to push his law reforms for the empire can help us..



Issue with that logic is, it's useless until we get it built and eats up a sizable amount of funds which we ultimately cannot afford right now due to the actions of the holder of the shore. So it's a 6 turn of heavy spending that only benefits us after while the income it's meant to be buffing is in decline already. That's putting good after bad.

It also is not going to help spotting a black arc in any meaningful way, they have spells of obscurement and will if they are not blithering idiots, have raiding parties sent out ahead of time to hit watcher sights. The lighthouse itself is thus one huge target for them to blow up and or cause chaos with.

As for the prestige gain? Frankly Freddy doesn't really need any since his law reform is happening solely inside his own realm, not bucking too many norms, or otherwise being downright odd as he normally is. This is tame for him, and the nobles are more likely to be asking "Where's the crazy" than take any actual offense, especially since we're funding the rebuild entirely.

Don't get me wrong both the beast paths and light house are important. The light house needs to wait until our finances are less shot. Hopefully it's in 1-2 turns for that, but we're not solvent enough for funds if we get hit in earnest. As for the paths? Without our asrai mercs I have zero confidence in us doing much good with those as we lack their wood lore and would have to resort to the Greenskin way of scouting them. Which means throwing ruinous amounts of bodies at them which we cannot reasonably sustain.



...Isn't that the precise Reason why we SHOULD destroy the Beast paths? To make it harder for them to run circles around our Forces when they invade?
You'd think but at that point all it does is leave troops scattered out of position while we blanket areas trying to find the paths. We no longer have our asrai mercs who did all the heavy lifting for us on this after all, and since we're unanimous about going to Festermarsh, we lack a reserve force in case things gets hot while the army of the forest scouts out. I'd rather not chance it.



I feel like if we want to find Beast-Paths easier we want to get the winged-scouts first. I assume with them finding the Beast-Paths odds get much better if not certain since they can literally find them from the air.
Given the paths are filled with Dhar making the human eye just skip over them via a form of beastman Not!magic? I'm not sure it's that easy.
 
I just don't know when we would take the beastpaths. The beastpaths are always going to have something else around them. Qeqre uses the logic that upgrading the army is beneficial to Ostland as an answer to allowing the beastpaths search to be delayed.

There is no end to the upgrades for the army that we are doing already. None at all. For the last few turns we have focused on our army upgrades already, there is visibly no end to upgrading the military equipment.
Easy answer for when to take the beast paths - when we don't have two other ongoing military operations, and thus aren't loading our three main military groups with four separate commitments (three operations and defense/security throughout out territory).

Since we're already locked in with the wolfways, there's only room for one more proactive operation - and between Festermarsh and Beast Paths the choice is clear.
 
...Isn't that the precise Reason why we SHOULD destroy the Beast paths? To make it harder for them to run circles around our Forces when they invade?
Scouting for Beast-paths means we go out and find the ways through which a Warherd might sneak into Ostland(which are usually remote places where we can't patrol very effectively) and dropping a fort down there after killing the nearby tribes.

This is very good for stopping the constant small threats. Meaning something like a Hochland Beastman surge is less likely to bleed over into Ostland(and vice versa) and a good background roll against the Beastmen by our forest patrols will have a longer-lasting effect.

Basically, I view it as an anti-raiding thing more than an anti-invasion thing if that makes sense.
 
...Isn't that the precise Reason why we SHOULD destroy the Beast paths? To make it harder for them to run circles around our Forces when they invade?
The answer to that is the tried and true tested " We don't know how many Paths there are, but Blastweave means the Army of the Forest, the militia and all our settlements will be able to put up a better fight. "

The Beast paths cannot all be shut, only the major paths can be patrolled. Instead of shutting the available paths down in what's a long term project we should not be able to confirm as complete (unless I'm missing something, I might be, gonna need to check that out). The solution is to improve the all around combat capability to withstand the flood of war we leave open. It also helps that the affects of the beastpaths not being shut are easy to ignore as a problem. Beastmen build up from the beastpaths? Ignore it for improving the army, so when an attack from the enemy inside/outside Ostland happens, the army can hopefully survive long enough for reinforcements, or to gather to fight the enemy forces.

I feel like if we want to find Beast-Paths easier we want to get the winged-scouts first. I assume with them finding the Beast-Paths odds get much better if not certain since they can literally find them from the air.
Not exactly, forest terrain is a problem for visibility. The beast-paths are not all visible from the air. If we had the winged scouts. We might be able to see beastmen roaming Oastland, or if warherds are on the march.

Issue with that logic is, it's useless until we get it built and eats up a sizable amount of funds which we ultimately cannot afford right now due to the actions of the holder of the shore. So it's a 6 turn of heavy spending that only benefits us after while the income it's meant to be buffing is in decline already. That's putting good after bad.

It also is not going to help spotting a black arc in any meaningful way, they have spells of obscurement and will if they are not blithering idiots, have raiding parties sent out ahead of time to hit watcher sights. The lighthouse itself is thus one huge target for them to blow up and or cause chaos with.

As for the prestige gain? Frankly Freddy doesn't really need any since his law reform is happening solely inside his own realm, not bucking too many norms, or otherwise being downright odd as he normally is. This is tame for him, and the nobles are more likely to be asking "Where's the crazy" than take any actual offense, especially since we're funding the rebuild entirely.

Don't get me wrong both the beast paths and light house are important. The light house needs to wait until our finances are less shot. Hopefully it's in 1-2 turns for that, but we're not solvent enough for funds if we get hit in earnest. As for the paths? Without our asrai mercs I have zero confidence in us doing much good with those as we lack their wood lore and would have to resort to the Greenskin way of scouting them. Which means throwing ruinous amounts of bodies at them which we cannot reasonably sustain.
Our finances are not that shot. We can afford the cost of the Lighthouse plan. Just like we can afford the plan with the vapor tanks (with a DD on vapor tanks). They even out at about the same price anyway. Our income is in the ascent, actually. We just need to build some of the infrastructure to ascend, do not buy mercs, and keep ascending for a few more turns. Six turns later, we start to build the lighthouse, and it would probably have been a better idea to have built it around now instead of then. If only because when it completes it'll be a boon for Ostland.

Shit, I'm repeating myself. Okay say we did start the lighthouse now.
Turn 36
Stewardship (Choose 2)
The Stone Beneath (Completes this turn)
The Lighthouse of Salkalten, foundation (will complete next turn)
Seeding Drills (will complete this turn, but not give the money until next turn ends)

Turn 37
Stewardship (Choose 2)
The Lighthouse of Salkalten, foundation (completes this turn)
Lumbering Heat (2 years)
Apple Expansion (1 year)
???

Turn 38
Stewardship (Choose 2, or maybe choose 3)

Yeah, we are in ascent economy wise. Assuming no more wall building projects get offered, and we don't take on more mercs. Looks like we may take the lighthouse sooner than six turns into the future.

The QM mentioned that there is a reason why even though the elven mercs left, the players have the same CoS for the beast paths.
Years of fighting/training/learning alongside Wood Elves and increased in-depth familiarity with the deeper forests compared to previous knowledge/capabilities plus Taal priests and flying scouts with the wing suits = unchanged and available, yes.
 
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The Lighthouse isn't just a massive prestige project. It gives a light during nighttime, so something like a druchi black Ark should be able to be spotted during those times if a raiding fleet draws close in the dark. Improving the coastal defense is a positive to me.
It also is not going to help spotting a black arc in any meaningful way, they have spells of obscurement and will if they are not blithering idiots, have raiding parties sent out ahead of time to hit watcher sights. The lighthouse itself is thus one huge target for them to blow up and or cause chaos with.

hate to burst your bubble guys but that is not how lighthouses work , a lighthouse functions as a navigational aid for ships traveling at night or in the dark when visibility is pitch night time black so that the ship doesn't crash on some clifeside or reef because they couldn't see it in the dark by acting as a beacon showing that their is land in the direction of the light house.

granted it is possible to give the lighthouse special magical properties like maybe detecting attacks if we can get the colleges of magic involved to enchant it for us
 
granted it is possible to give the lighthouse special magical properties like maybe detecting attacks if we can get the colleges of magic involved to enchant it for us
Apparently the design necessitates the inclusion of bright wizards somehow, so it probably does something fancy, though I'm unsure about its usefullness in detecting a Black Arc
 
I may have missed the discussion, but can someone explain to me why we're taking the lighthouse vanity project now of all times? Spending money on that while squeezing others for money when everyone got hit in their ports looks really bad on us.

Because it's a necessary step to upgrade Salkalten to the next level, and a world-class port opens up so many options for Ostland.
 
Our finances are not that shot. We can afford the cost of the Lighthouse plan. Just like we can afford the plan with the vapor tanks (with a DD on vapor tanks). They even out at about the same price anyway. Our income is in the ascent, actually. We just need to build some of the infrastructure to ascend, do not buy mercs, and keep ascending for a few more turns. Six turns later, we start to build the lighthouse, and it would probably have been a better idea to have built it around now instead of then. If only because when it completes it'll be a boon for Ostland.



Yeah, we are in ascent economy wise. Assuming no more wall building projects get offered, and we don't take on more mercs. Looks like we may take the lighthouse sooner than six turns into the future.

The QM mentioned that there is a reason why even though the elven mercs left, the players have the same CoS for the beast paths.


Here's the thing, we're on the ascent, for now. Our path of growth is unstable at best and if anyone attacks us, whether it be the Druchiii, the beastmen or hells even just chaos raiders, we could have all our income plummet. Having a turn or two of increasing our economic robustness for the inevitable bad times is prudent. Make no mistake, i want to get that light house, and soon, but i want our economy to be less swingy if things go bad too.
 
hate to burst your bubble guys but that is not how lighthouses work , a lighthouse functions as a navigational aid for ships traveling at night or in the dark when visibility is pitch night time black so that the ship doesn't crash on some clifeside or reef because they couldn't see it in the dark by acting as a beacon showing that their is land in the direction of the light house.

granted it is possible to give the lighthouse special magical properties like maybe detecting attacks if we can get the colleges of magic involved to enchant it for us
Right, the lighthouse wouldn't cause ships to be visible at night from the lighthouse, as that's not a lighthouse's function. I just assumed that's something the lighthouse could do for a Black Ark on a raid of Salkalten.

Completely ignored any normal ship fleet raid would be in a different scenario from a Black Ark being detected, my bad.
 
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As a project of repute, the Vapor Tanks are an enormous deal. A replacement for the Steam Tanks that can actually be made instead of just repaired is revolutionary in the engineering world.

If anything demonstrates our superiority over Nuln, that would.
 
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Yeah, I would argue that the Vapor Tanks are also a prestige project. What other province has anything similar? They'll be like a provincial product.

And they also kill things.
 
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