Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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[X] Trident and Dawn: While Mena could have been more delicate and thought out about it, the idea does hold a bit of merit. An expediency and efficiency that you can certainly appreciate. Plus, the Trident Meeting last year was Stephan's, which means you're hosting this year. Which means you can invite whoever you want. It will be quite visible, however, even if her participation is short. On the other hand, the sooner you can get into it, the faster it will be done with, and hopefully for the better.
 
[X] Trident and Dawn: While Mena could have been more delicate and thought out about it, the idea does hold a bit of merit. An expediency and efficiency that you can certainly appreciate. Plus, the Trident Meeting last year was Stephan's, which means you're hosting this year. Which means you can invite whoever you want. It will be quite visible, however, even if her participation is short. On the other hand, the sooner you can get into it, the faster it will be done with, and hopefully for the better.
 
[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.


We don't need to rush this. This is the sort of thing I want to discretely bring up to Magnus during the next Elector's Meet so he can share his own thoughts on introducing Nariael to the Trident Meetings, and if he can do any interference to mitigate blowback.

This is simultaneously something Magnus will probably want to back, and something to be careful about because if we're bringing in someone who is not only a foreign power but also nigh-guaranteed to outlive us we're creating potential problems down the line. Either from Laurelorn trying to manipulate us to their own ends (I'm not that concerned but it's a legitimate issue), tensions with the South if we seem to be securing a powerbase before Magnus the Pious dies, tensions with Middenland which has historically also picked fights with Laurelorn.

We don't need to charge into this. We can afford to take the time, go to our boss and try and ensure we involve ourselves in this in such a way that it risks raising tensions in the Empire as little as possible.
 
I feel the need to reiterate, as I dont think the thread is seeing the entire picture. Her deciding to ally further with humans without talking to her people is Katarin levels of despotism. Her legitimacy loss would be staggering, and open discontent is all but guaranteed.

It is a seriously stupid idea. Not a Hollenzern style diplomacy move, an outright idiotic move that WILL needlessly make large problems down the road.


JUST BECAUSE NARAIEL IS OUR FREIND DOESN'T MEAN ALL ELVES ARE NOW SUDDENLY COOL WITH HUMANS.
 
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I lean to the first but would prefer to consult with Stephen and Otrud first since this involves them. On the other hand doing this sort of thing while Magnus is still alive to give us Imperial backing seems like a good idea.

@torroar can we defer until we talk to the other two leaders of the Trident?
 
I'm for quieter approach. If we want to make a bigger statement we can invite her next time it comes around to us or try to convince Stephen to do it on his turn. Hell, we can use the next Elector Meet to sound out Magnus the Pious on if that would cause more headaches for him or not.

Plus it'll give the elves time to adjust to not pincushining a human when they see them.
 
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[] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.

Faster is actually better because of all the threats in the world. I'd prefer if we tried the diplomatic safe option, as things are a little volatile in the intrigue department for us.


Karugus said:
We don't need to rush this. This is the sort of thing I want to discretely bring up to Magnus during the next Elector's Meet so he can share his own thoughts on introducing Nariael to the Trident Meetings, and if he can do any interference to mitigate blowback.

This is simultaneously something Magnus will probably want to back, and something to be careful about because if we're bringing in someone who is not only a foreign power but also nigh-guaranteed to outlive us we're creating potential problems down the line. Either from Laurelorn trying to manipulate us to their own ends (I'm not that concerned but it's a legitimate issue), tensions with the South if we seem to be securing a powerbase before Magnus the Pious dies, tensions with Middenland which has historically also picked fights with Laurelorn.

We don't need to charge into this. We can afford to take the time, go to our boss and try and ensure we involve ourselves in this in such a way that it risks raising tensions in the Empire as little as possible.
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This is a Trident thing right now, not a thing for the Elector Meets. The Elector Meet that is four years away. By that point, the slow path to the meetings might be complete. Magnus the Pious could have no say in this.
 
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[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.

Fredrick said this was probably a bad idea in the update. Past experiences like Gunthar at the electors meet and infuriating Adolf by continuously trying to talk to him show that torroar is willing to punish bad hasty decisions like this. NARAIEL HERSELF thinks it is a bad idea.

Please don't vote for the lol meme train guys.
 
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Marlin said:
[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.

Faster is actually better because of all the threats in the world. I'd prefer if we tried the diplomatic safe option, as things are a little volatile in the intrigue department for us.
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A little contradictory?
 
torroar said:
You can see, absolutely, why Mena's husband was selected to be one with skill and experience at court and in the art of diplomacy. The absolute arrogance of those words, and how they were delivered, staggers you.
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"Staggers you." She said something so undiplomatic Frederick is shocked! The man who blurted out that he knew Emperor Magnus once felt up a barmaid to the man himself is shocked by Mena's demeanor. That's hilarious.
 
I freely admit that I wish Frederick had told Tyrion to turn around and take a hike, That guy was being an asshole. But Elves, what can you do about them.
 
[] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.
 
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The biggest mutual security issue we'd want to discuss with Laurelorn is the something nasty in Drakenwald. That requires Gunther to be involved. Gunther is likely to set set himself against proposals coming from the Trident meeting. Stephan having a chat to Magnus who has a chat to Gunther or Stephan talks to Gunther while Freddy talks to Magnus who talks to Gunther might be better done first.
 
[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.
 
[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.

Lets go with a slower approach here maybe next year we can invite her but not this year.
 
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[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.
 
[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.

We have already flipped the cart in the Elven world, let's not flip one in the Empire as well.
 
[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.
 
[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
A little contradictory?
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Only if you consider "faster" the safe option. I said faster is better, not that it is safe. Faster is better as it gives the Trident the wood elf diplomacy results faster than the slow way, which means that all the leaders of the Trident are guaranteed to be alive for these talks, instead of killed off by something like a Whaaagh! Places The players at risk of the Rumor Mill to our political opponents which can damage things at the distant Electors Meet.

The "slower" option is safer. Safer in that the blowback from the rest of the empire can be smoothed out over time. No obvious movements are made of the Laurelorn wood elves reaching out to Stephan. The position at the Electors Meet is likely to be undamaged, so the alliance with the wood elves among the Trident can be reported, and maybe talked with Gunthar about (probably not, but it might be possible). The great risk with this is that the leaders of the Trident could die and cause issues if even one is dead during the "slow" amount of time needed to get the agreement figured out. On the other hand, if that risk isn't a problem the reward from the slow path might be the acceptance of the greater empire about this agreement, instead of grudging acceptance.
 
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[] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.
 
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[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.
 
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