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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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So we have to kill all of the soldiers anyway?

I mean how sustainable would an alliance with any of the other Sarnori really be in this situation... I guess technically the slaughter of the populace by the military was a known facet of the city's fall to the Queen of Sathar, so if she was willing to entertain an alliance in principle with them regardless of that fact, we could possibly form an alliance with him still... but then what would we do with the people? I mean it's not sustainable to bring them back to life alongside the military, that's too cruel for both sides. Death would be more of a mercy on either end.
 
Crake said:
So we have to kill all of the soldiers anyway?

I mean how sustainable would an alliance with any of the other Sarnori really be in this situation... I guess technically the slaughter of the populace by the military was a known facet of the city's fall to the Queen of Sathar, so if she was willing to entertain an alliance in principle with them regardless of that fact, we could possibly form an alliance with him still... but then what would we do with the people? I mean it's not sustainable to bring them back to life alongside the military, that's too cruel for both sides. Death would be more of a mercy on either end.
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We can always split them up, bringing back both sides work, if we convince the military to go on a journey as penance.
 
Duesal said:
I pity the Lord Protector here. It was either die on your own terms or die by the Dothraki, I highly doubt this was the outcome he wanted.
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Viserys is positive it was not, even though the prince's justifiably bitter perspective he can see a man who was pushed into an impossible choice, not a monster. Ultimately if he were to find a first cause for all this it would probably be the militarized society that drove them to dig in their heels thinking they could outlast the tide rather than try to flee.
 
Crake said:
So we have to kill all of the soldiers anyway?

I mean how sustainable would an alliance with any of the other Sarnori really be in this situation... I guess technically the slaughter of the populace by the military was a known facet of the city's fall to the Queen of Sathar, so if she was willing to entertain an alliance in principle with them regardless of that fact, we could possibly form an alliance with him still... but then what would we do with the people? I mean it's not sustainable to bring them back to life alongside the military, that's too cruel for both sides. Death would be more of a mercy on either end.
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If we can offer to restore the populace to some semblance of life as Warforged, the Lord Protector might be willing to go along with it or even help, in order to atone for the actions of the military.
 
Crake said:
So we have to kill all of the soldiers anyway?

I mean how sustainable would an alliance with any of the other Sarnori really be in this situation... I guess technically the slaughter of the populace by the military was a known facet of the city's fall to the Queen of Sathar, so if she was willing to entertain an alliance in principle with them regardless of that fact, we could possibly form an alliance with him still... but then what would we do with the people? I mean it's not sustainable to bring them back to life alongside the military, that's too cruel for both sides. Death would be more of a mercy on either end.
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We could just offer relocation for different parts of the population who don't want to stay. This was a sad situation all around. I don't think killing the soldiers off is the way to go here.
 
Killing the soldiers makes this whole diplo-attempt essentially pointless.
If that is the predicted outcome we might as well meet them in the field.

The civilian ghosts are not very useful to us, not at all to be honest. I would have voted to help them as part of the "get their city's military on our side" plan, but not in itself.
 
Crake said:
I'm conflicted, but I don't agree with just killing them all out of hand.
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What happened was horrific, but at the same time the soldiers were forced into this by circumstance so I don't put full blame onto them. If it wasn't them who did the deed it would have been merciless Dothraki screamers. That said, the populace will be understandably furious once the truth is revealed.

I think the best way to approach this is to make an offer to house the soldiers far away from the populace in our service as their penance, while providing imperial protection for the city. Remember how the Warforged were originally designed to be soldiers in the Long Night against the hordes of undead? Let's station them at the Wall for a few years before they can settle down somewhere else in the Imperium if they choose.
 
The other option is to offer ritual suicide to the soldiers because they failed their charges...that would assuage the people but the soldiers would be dead.
 
Duesal said:
What happened was horrific, but at the same time the soldiers were forced into this by circumstance so I don't put full blame onto them. If it wasn't them who did the deed it would have been merciless Dothraki screamers. That said, the populace will be understandably furious once the truth is revealed.

I think the best way to approach this is to make an offer to house the soldiers far away from the populace in our service as their penance, while providing imperial protection for the city. Remember how the Warforged were originally designed to be soldiers in the Long Night against the hordes of undead? Let's station them at the Wall for a few years before they can settle down somewhere else in the Imperium if they choose.
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It seems an appropriate punishment, but rather than "a few years" they should just serve until the Long Night ends. I mean either way we are all in this together and if they fail to hold back the Night they won't be enjoying life afterwards as a citizen no matter what.
 
Duesal said:
What happened was horrific, but at the same time the soldiers were forced into this by circumstance so I don't put full blame onto them. If it wasn't them who did the deed it would have been merciless Dothraki screamers. That said, the populace will be understandably furious once the truth is revealed.
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Eh, not letting the civilians escape while they still had the chance is squarely on the leadership's cap though.

If Saath had been filled with the refuges from here more of Sarnor as it was could have survived.
More people, more culture.
 
[X] Crake
Well, let's go and diplomance at the Gov'nor here.
 
Crake said:
It seems an appropriate punishment, but rather than "a few years" they should just serve until the Long Night ends. I mean either way we are all in this together and if they fail to hold back the Night they won't be enjoying life afterwards as a citizen no matter what.
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That works too. Either way they get resurrected too as Warforged, and are put to good use.
 
[X] Ask the prince to bide his time here. We don't want to alert the soldiers to our presence by freeing him from the tower until we are ready to act. Explicitly do not mention that we are planning to speak with the Lord Protector rather than shattering the mirror or destroying him.
-[X] Seek out the Lord Protector. We have much to speak of.
 
Crake said:
It seems an appropriate punishment, but rather than "a few years" they should just serve until the Long Night ends. I mean either way we are all in this together and if they fail to hold back the Night they won't be enjoying life afterwards as a citizen no matter what.
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I like this. Using their collective guilt and throwing them against the hordes of undead. I like that a lot. Make the soldiers feel useful and give them that chance for redemption and if they want to die afterwards we have options.

[X] Goldfish
 
[X] Goldfish

There's a good chance the old diplomancing skills could persuade the guy to give up without a fight, though you may want to include some scrying/scouting to that plan as well @Goldfish.
 
The prince can either get resurrected or get a swanky shiny warforged body of his choosing. I wonder what templates there are for Warforged... 🤔
 
Why not just have him leave himself clues?

He seems more clever than most. Make it a mystery with a nice sense of foreboding that will drive him to action.
 
F0lkL0re said:
[X] Goldfish

There's a good chance the old diplomancing skills could persuade the guy to give up without a fight, though you may want to include some scrying/scouting to that plan as well @Goldfish.
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When I say "seek out the Lord Protector", I don't mean just walk out of the tower and ask to talk to the guy. Our SOP includes stealth and scouting here, so that doesn't need to be specified. Same way we don't need to specifically mention our social spells whenever we use diplomacy.
 
tarrangar said:
It's the other way around, the basic research is 30 points, the ghost research is 20 points.
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Unless DP got it wrong in the interlude, ghost research is the 30 point one.

Ritual to Sacrifice the Animus of Undead will defray 40% of the cost of making a soul gem with Create Soul Gem (40 IM); Progress Required 20; 8,000 IM costs
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Ritual to allow the sacrifice of ghosts under above parameters requires progress 30 and 14,000 IM
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egoo said:
Well, we can take the hit of up to several million IM with little (if any) hurt, if that's what the conversion takes.

We would secure their vassalage with that option, of course, but it doesn't seem like too big of a concession to make for them all returning to life... sorta.
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Spending low double digit million IM for their vassalage would be worth it imo. The queen is a mythic character who can beat Viserys' 39 sense motive semi-consistently (would be a surprise if she was under level 15 while capable of this), which would be worth dropping a few million IM on by herself.

I see little reason to do any RAs personally, even if they would be cost-effective IM-wize (I'm not conviced), they really are't Progress-wize.

----------((My Little Rant: RAs are Magic))-----------
We have far more urgent projects to rush.
For every enemy out there we have a project we'd have to do.
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Totally get where your coming from, but I think it might be worth looking at how much progress we actually get. We seem to currently be getting 60-70 die per turn right now (and we could certainly increase it if we cut back in other places). Assuming your research action 5.0 post is up to date, all projects that we currently know the requirements for, need a total of 764. Which means we will probably complete them all in 4 months. A 20 point action is affordable, but is expensive for what we get.

[X] Goldfish
 
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