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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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random_npc said:
A thought, I wonder if we might want to rethink how the rule of pride should be applied to industrial processes? More than most things runlords create, the purpose of industrial infrastructure is its output, more is the point of it more so than with banners or legendary weapons that are in many ways symbols of authority and prestige for the hero entrusted with them.
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That's a really really REALLY tricky question cause the even if it's an industrial prosses if it's using a master rune it's a work of faith to Thrugni. Like wow will it polarize Rune Smiths.
 
random_npc said:
A thought, I wonder if we might want to rethink how the rule of pride should be applied to industrial processes? More than most things runlords create, the purpose of industrial infrastructure is its output, more is the point of it more so than with banners or legendary weapons that are in many ways symbols of authority and prestige for the hero entrusted with them.
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I think the easiest fix for this is to simply have every runesmith that can learn how to do so, to make their own Adamant smelter. There's something like 50 members of the Brotherhood of Dron yeah? That means 50 adamant smelters if they each make one, that's 25 bars per year on average. And that's assuming they don't all make 2 like Snorri did. And that's just the Brotherhood. Heck, could spread it to every runesmith/lord and get a hell of a lot more of them, each made only once or twice by an individual Runesmith, but they don't break or get destroyed so as generations come and go and every runesmith makes one, well that's a lot of adamant over the course of a few centuries.
 
Binge-Reader said:
That's a really really REALLY tricky question cause the even if it's an industrial prosses if it's using a master rune it's a work of faith to Thrugni. Like wow will it polarize Rune Smiths.
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It's a thorny theological question because the rule of pride is coming into conflict with the inherent purpose of the object being made. The natural purpose of an industrial process to make as much stuff as it can, this is in conflict with treating each example of a master rune as something sacred not to be simply churned out.

one possible compromise would be to apply the rule of pride not to the smelters, but the complex in which they are built. Essentially turn adamant foundries into massive temple-like complexes That the rule of pride applies to, offset treating each rune getting only a fragment of the respect by greatly respecting the complex. Though if that's enough is by a massive margin debatable.
 
Do we need industrial amounts of adamant? I don't think there are many threats that adamant solves that gromril doesn't solve. Adamant isn't like steel. Steel is used for a vast number of things. Adamant is used for equipping legendary heroes. How many legendary heroes is a hold going to have? Three? Four? We just don't need adamant on the scale that industrialization would provide.
 
Neshuakadal said:
Do we need industrial amounts of adamant? I don't think there are many threats that adamant solves that gromril doesn't solve. Adamant isn't like steel. Steel is used for a vast number of things. Adamant is used for equipping legendary heroes. How many legendary heroes is a hold going to have? Three? Four? We just don't need adamant on the scale that industrialization would provide.
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Sure we do, how else are we going to have armies of Adamant Gronti?
 
random_npc said:
It's a thorny theological question because the rule of pride is coming into conflict with the inherent purpose of the object being made. The natural purpose of an industrial process to make as much stuff as it can, this is in conflict with treating each example of a master rune as something sacred not to be simply churned out.

one possible compromise would be to apply the rule of pride not to the smelters, but the complex in which they are built. Essentially turn adamant foundries into massive temple-like complexes That the rule of pride applies to, offset treating each rune getting only a fragment of the respect by greatly respecting the complex. Though if that's enough is by a massive margin debatable.
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At this point it really feels like people are just looking into trying to loophole/cheese into getting industrialization. Which would likely feel like it would be cheapening the spirit of runecrafting and thus anger many runesmiths. Instead of trying to completely go against idea of rule of pride people may just want to accept that it's a cultural thing and trying to go against it is likely to alianate fellow runesmiths and thus cause trouble.

Really, we can just share the array and blueprints and let the brotherhood make their own. It doesn't go against the rule of pride since we are sharing with others and realistically it still relies on Voidstones which are likely going to be extremely rare. Meaning that the number of Adamant Smelters are just going to be limited which the QM has outright stated multiple times.
 
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random_npc said:
It's a thorny theological question because the rule of pride is coming into conflict with the inherent purpose of the object being made. The natural purpose of an industrial process to make as much stuff as it can, this is in conflict with treating each example of a master rune as something sacred not to be simply churned out.

one possible compromise would be to apply the rule of pride not to the smelters, but the complex in which they are built. Essentially turn adamant foundries into massive temple-like complexes That the rule of pride applies to, offset treating each rune getting only a fragment of the respect by greatly respecting the complex. Though if that's enough is by a massive margin debatable.
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Or we could not and just accept adamant for what it is. A rare limited ingredient.
 
Ferdiad said:
Or we could not and just accept adamant for what it is. A rare limited ingredient.
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mmm...

I'm not disagreeing, but just because its rare and limited doesn't mean that we can't try to increase supply of it either IC since you know...Adamant or OOC since we know that Anvils of Doom are giant slabs of the stuff.

Basically anyone worrying about industrializing Adamant...don't worry that ain't happening even if we spread it to every runesmith worth a damn.

shepsquared said:
What if they become impossible to awaken over time like the gronti apparently did in canon because there's more to it than just the loss of knowledge?
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Then we use the sudden excess of adamantium to accelerate research into the anvils of doom which don't turn off.

Personally I want anvils simply because they boost the power of things made on them.
 
Neshuakadal said:
What threat would an army of adamant Gronti solve that an army of gromril Gronti couldn't?
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*shrug* The Endless hordes of Demons of Chaos, The Skaven, Nagash's undead armies if he ever actually got his shit together.


shepsquared said:
What if they become impossible to awaken over time like the gronti apparently did in canon because there's more to it than just the loss of knowledge?
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What if this thing that just happened happens, and the only reason we know how it could have happened isn't actually the only reason, what do we do then?

Thats what you just asked me. Think about that.
 
Adamant is a T4 material, and it's actually kind of frustrating that people continue to bring up wanting to industrialize it. Maybe just accept the fact that a material that is a higher tier than dragon parts is never going to be mass producible? QM has also talked about this before please just stop it's immensely frustrating to see this being being talked about again.
 
TBH, it's never going to be common, the big draw to our method is that it's sustainable in the long run and permits more resources to be applied towards study and development of Adamant applications than it does to increase production.

Honestly, I'm fine with our current output.
 
kobo said:
Adamant is a T4 material, and it's actually kind of frustrating that people continue to bring up wanting to industrialize it. Maybe just accept the fact that a material that is a higher tier than dragon parts is never going to be mass producible? QM has also talked about this before please just stop it's immensely frustrating to see this being being talked about again.
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The only really reasonable suggestion I've seen on that front is the proliferation of Snorri's master rune among the brotherhood (and beyond). It wouldn't make it common, but it'd make it less absurdly rare and something you could actually trade for (albeit at a high cost).
 
I'm not sure if anyone else has asked about this but could Snorri make a gatling gun with runes and engineering? I'm just thinking it would be great for defense, put a couple of them on ether side of the gates and it would cut through trash mods easy and I'm even Orks would at the very least be hurt by it.
Like use a rune of Force (if it is a thing) then build or have someone build a loading mechanism and use something like 7 inch nails for the ammo (I'm thinking building normal ammo would be a lot harder and cost more then they are worth).
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Basically anyone worrying about industrializing Adamant...don't worry that ain't happening even if we spread it to every runesmith worth a damn.
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I think its fair to be worried about industrialization because of the conversations happening about how to industrialize the adamant production process and how that would interact with the rule of pride. People are discussing how to do it, so waving the concern away saying it won't happen feels disingenuous.

Fundamentally the rule of pride exists as a cultural norm. I feel like we should respect cultural norms especially when the character we are piloting lives in the culture.

From a meta prospective the rule of pride acts as a constraint on the thread. It forces the thread to explore new options and experience new things. Would I like every ax in Kraka Drakk to have the metor combo? Yes, yes I would. But that would boring to write about and boring to read if our runelord spent all his time on only a couple of tasks.
 
kennett655 said:
I'm not sure if anyone else has asked about this but could Snorri make a gatling gun with runes and engineering? I'm just thinking it would be great for defense, put a couple of them on ether side of the gates and it would cut through trash mods easy and I'm even Orks would at the very least be hurt by it.
Like use a rune of Force (if it is a thing) then build or have someone build a loading mechanism and use something like 7 inch nails for the ammo (I'm thinking building normal ammo would be a lot harder and cost more then they are worth).
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Something like that isn't happening for a long time, because he's not an Engineer, so it's dependent on when they make it. It hasn't exactly happened yet in canon, so...probably never.
 
kennett655 said:
I'm not sure if anyone else has asked about this but could Snorri make a gatling gun with runes and engineering? I'm just thinking it would be great for defense, put a couple of them on ether side of the gates and it would cut through trash mods easy and I'm even Orks would at the very least be hurt by it.
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Well the Dawi don't even have guns, currently.

Best you're getting is a gattling crossbow.

NSMS said:
The only really reasonable suggestion I've seen on that front is the proliferation of Snorri's master rune among the brotherhood (and beyond). It wouldn't make it common, but it'd make it less absurdly rare and something you could actually trade for (albeit at a high cost).
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Alectai said:
TBH, it's never going to be common, the big draw to our method is that it's sustainable in the long run and permits more resources to be applied towards study and development of Adamant applications than it does to increase production.

Honestly, I'm fine with our current output.
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At current membership with 2 a piece they'd have a max production of about 60 bars a decade spread over the entire Karaz Ankor.

That's...not mass production, but its still a vast increase on what they had before which speaks to how little they had before rather than a sign that "oh no mass production."

If we're getting to the point that we can commonly slather giant gronti in the stuff then we're at mass production time, otherwise not really.
 
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