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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Did soulcake specify what exactly the strictures on Master-Journeyman interaction are? There's the no assistance rule, of course, but it seems like it goes further than that, given Snorri isn't even talking to them...
 
THE VOTE IS LOCKED.

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Adhoc vote count started by soulcake on Apr 26, 2020 at 12:11 PM, finished with 172 posts and 69 votes.
  • [X] Plan For the Dragon Hold and Armor!
    -[X] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn. 2 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Blood on the Hailmantle Cloak and T4 Dragonhide for both Cloaks. Use T4 Elder Wyrm Bone, Pure Gromril and Hearthstones for the Amulet.
    -[X] [Difficult] A Royal Panoply Pt. 2: With the runes squared away all that needs to be done is have the armour sets made. You've decided to use the Elder Wyrms hide instead of the one you've ordered. Just made good sense is all. [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 3 actions. Use 3 bars of Adamant for the King's Armor, Pure Gromril and Dragonbone for the Prince's armor. Use T4 Dragonhide as an underlayer in both armors.
    [X] Wedding Works
    [X] Plan For the Dragon Hold!
    -[X] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn. 3 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Blood on the Hailmantle Cloak and T4 Dragonhide for both Cloaks. Use T4 Elder Wyrm Bone, Pure Gromril and Hearthstones for the Amulet.
    -[X] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Bone and Elder Wyrm Hide.
    [X] Plan For the Dragon Hold and Testing!
    -[X] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn. 2 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Blood on the Hailmantle Cloak and T4 Dragonhide for both Cloaks. Use T4 Elder Wyrm Bone, Pure Gromril and Hearthstones for the Amulet.
    -[X] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Bone and Elder Wyrm Hide.
    -[X] C-c-combo Tester!: The format is as follows: Valiant Colossus, Gronti: [Master Rune of Awakening, Rune of Grimnir, Rune of Fortitude] [Cost: 1 action] 1 Action
    [X] Plan: Good Communication
    -[X] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn. 3 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Blood on the Hailmantle Cloak and T4 Dragonhide for both Cloaks.
    -[X] Diction Direction: [Cost: (6 -4) =2 actions] Student of the Odd will proc. 2 Actions
    [X] Wedding Works
    -[X] [Difficult] A Royal Panoply Pt. 2: With the runes squared away all that needs to be done is have the armour sets made. You've decided to use the Elder Wyrms hide instead of the one you've ordered. Just made good sense is all. [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. If a specific material, 3 "Bars" per Suit
    --[X] 3 actions
    ---[X] Adamant for Otrek
    ---[X] Pure Gromril with T4 Dragonhide and T4 Dragonbone for Gloin
    -[X] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done now is make the things. With the arrival of so much high-quality dragonhide, you've decided to use it instead of the hide you had ordered. A multi-piece project. [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn.
    --[X] 2 actions
    ---[X] Using Elder Frostwyrm Blood for the Hailmantle Cloak
    ---[X] Use T4 Elder Wyrm Bone, Pure Gromril and Hearthstones for the Amulet
    [X] Plan a Banner in a Decade is better than a Golem in a Century right now.
    -[X] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn. 2 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Hide on the Cloaks and Elder Wyrm blood for the Hailmantle cloak.
    -[X] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Bone and Elder Wyrm Hide.
    -[X] C-c-combo Tester!: The format is as follows: Valaya Banner: [Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Santuary, Rune of Healing] [Cost: 1 action] 1 Action
    [X] Plan For the Dragon Hold!
    -[X] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn. 3 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Blood on the Hailmantle Cloak and T4 Dragonhide for both Cloaks.
    -[X] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Bone and Elder Wyrm Hide.
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So I'm wondering what price exactly Snorri could ask for from the KotS in exchange for his armor, looking at the rune list and their requirements, I can't see anything he could get that Snorri couldn't aquire by just placing an order and waiting. Would it be apropriate to just ask him to murder every servant of Chaos he comes across or something along those lines even though that's almost certainly what he's already going to be doing?
 
Raeyx said:
So I'm wondering what price exactly Snorri could ask for from the KotS in exchange for his armor, looking at the rune list and their requirements, I can't see anything he could get that Snorri couldn't aquire by just placing an order and waiting. Would it be apropriate to just ask him to murder every servant of Chaos he comes across or something along those lines even though that's almost certainly what he's already going to be doing?
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This one's easy. Tier 4 and Tier 5 imgredients.
 
I know people want to immediately make the best Armor possible for the Sky King, but a Master Rune of Currents derived combo-equipped armor will absolutely already do that with the Icy Wyrms Brain.

Securing a second T5 Ingredient though opens up a whole host of options that would otherwise not exist, and gives us a chance to compromise on the divide between voters who want to apply the Greedy One's Heart to their own dream projects.

Especially if we get something as ideal for a Banner Rune as the Heart is for Fortitude or Animation Runes.
 
Raeyx said:
So I'm wondering what price exactly Snorri could ask for from the KotS in exchange for his armor, looking at the rune list and their requirements, I can't see anything he could get that Snorri couldn't aquire by just placing an order and waiting. Would it be apropriate to just ask him to murder every servant of Chaos he comes across or something along those lines even though that's almost certainly what he's already going to be doing?
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I'm kinda iffy on asking the griffonking for that sorta thing, partly because he's already entered a military alliance with the hold but also because an open-ended obligation like that seems like a lopsided trade - at what point would he have fulfilled his part of the bargain? I think I'd rather see Snorri ask for some potent demon ingredient instead, because then HM could go collect an elder devil ass or whatever and exchange it for his new gear, and it'd be very clear to everyone involved when the deal is concluded.
 
I mean we have plenty of t4 and t3 reagents. That's more then enough to make really good equipment now as opposed to having the King try to hunt down a unique monster and have the armor too late.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
I mean we have plenty of t4 and t3 reagents. That's more then enough to make really good equipment now as opposed to having the King try to hunt down a unique monster and have the armor too late.
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I don't think it says anywhere Snorri has to demand payment up front. Is there any reason he couldn't say he wants a balrog oesophagus as payment, but that he trusts HM to deliver it at a later date and will build the armour on credit? (Provided the ingredient isn't going into the armour itself, of course, and I'm assuming it won't.)

If HM ends up with some appropriate piece of loot during the war, great, there's payment right there. If not, HM can go hunt at his convenience in the aftermath, provided both he and the hold survives. It's not like he'd need to leave the hold mid-siege to farm materials.
 
i made a post earlier today about accepting the request "on credit".
With a tentative write along the lines of "We'll find a quarry worthy of my craft in these dark times", but idk if it was seen. Didn't get much of a reaction.
 
bird yells said:
I don't think it says anywhere Snorri has to demand payment up front. Is there any reason he couldn't say he wants a balrog oesophagus as payment, but that he trusts HM to deliver it at a later date and will build the armour on credit? (Provided the ingredient isn't going into the armour itself, of course, and I'm assuming it won't.)

If HM ends up with some appropriate piece of loot during the war, great, there's payment right there. If not, HM can go hunt at his convenience in the aftermath, provided both he and the hold survives. It's not like he'd need to leave the hold mid-siege to farm materials.
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If this could be made to work it might hactually be the best course of action. Make the armor, and if the griffon king later takes down some previously specified or just random super magical beasty he found, he then has the remains delivered to Snorri.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
I mean we have plenty of t4 and t3 reagents. That's more then enough to make really good equipment now as opposed to having the King try to hunt down a unique monster and have the armor too late.
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I meant T4 and T5 ingredients for us/other projects, not for his armor.
We can use some of materials we currently possess to make him a bitchin' armor.
 
IronFist said:
i made a post earlier today about accepting the request "on credit".
With a tentative write along the lines of "We'll find a quarry worthy of my craft in these dark times", but idk if it was seen. Didn't get much of a reaction.
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I did not see your post, but I would be all for making the armour first and trusting HM to pay for it later subject to one important condition: Snorri needs to name his price up front, so HM knows in what manner he's expected to fulfil his part of the deal. That's not to say Snorri needs to specify what kind of monster bit he wants down to species level or anything, but I think it's important Snorri sets out concrete terms for the commission rather than holding a vaguely defined favour over HM's head. (If I understand you correctly I think we're not disagreeing on this issue, but I figure it's helpful to stake out my position here.)
 
TehChron said:
I know people want to immediately make the best Armor possible for the Sky King, but a Master Rune of Currents derived combo-equipped armor will absolutely already do that with the Icy Wyrms Brain.

Securing a second T5 Ingredient though opens up a whole host of options that would otherwise not exist, and gives us a chance to compromise on the divide between voters who want to apply the Greedy One's Heart to their own dream projects.

Especially if we get something as ideal for a Banner Rune as the Heart is for Fortitude or Animation Runes.
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I'm not sure what you mean by the idea of Master Rune of Currents derived combo-equipped armor. The only kind of "armor" that we can make that involves the Master Rune of Currents are weapon gauntlets.

Getting actual armor for the Sky King with Master Rune of Currents would take 4 turns of research and then a turn to make everything.

I'm basically considering that he should help us kill a T4/T5 thing and make his armor with the stuff we have on hand; pure gromril, dragonhide and dragonbone and gear his armor for defense against Magic and corruption with the Master Rune of Steel (To prevent degradation both physical and spiritual), Rune of Warding (The shield component in the Conversion combo), and Rune of Spellbreaking (Breaks spells and on the rune list is described as making the bearer nearly immune to magical attacks). Basically, work on a metaphor of incorruptible armor by warding away bad magic. Or for another image, Clear Skies in a terrible storm.

What were the combos you had in mind?
 
bird yells said:
I did not see your post, but I would be all for making the armour first and trusting HM to pay for it later subject to one important condition: Snorri needs to name his price up front, so HM knows in what manner he's expected to fulfil his part of the deal. That's not to say Snorri needs to specify what kind of monster bit he wants down to species level or anything, but I think it's important Snorri sets out concrete terms for the commission rather than holding a vaguely defined favour over HM's head. (If I understand you correctly I think we're not disagreeing on this issue, but I figure it's helpful to stake out my position here.)
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We're not disagreeing at all. We already have that level of detail from KoS:
"Armour Maker, I would commission your services. Name your quarry, and they will die by beak and rending claw, or name your desire and I will do all in my power to offer it in exchange for your work. When you are ready, simply speak to the Ebonbeak, and it will be so,"
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He will hunt something or do something for us, we need to tell him what. I can't think of anything we desire that he could give us, and from what I read, neither can the thread. My idea was just to agree with him that something whose death is of sufficient worth would come along in the course of the battles to come. Armor him now, with a promise of worthy payment later.
 
BungieONI said:
I'm not sure what you mean by the idea of Master Rune of Currents derived combo-equipped armor. The only kind of "armor" that we can make that involves the Master Rune of Currents are weapon gauntlets.

Getting actual armor for the Sky King with Master Rune of Currents would take 4 turns of research and then a turn to make everything.
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I'm a little confused on this issue. I'd taken for granted that putting the currents rune on the griffonking commission would require researching it first, just as you say, but then I saw Soul make this post:

soulcake said:
Yes, it would work as a fist gauntlet. The Runes will not fail you in this technicality.

I'm pinging you JamesShazbond because he replied to you
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The post was made in reply to someone asking about incorporating currents into the armour, so I don't think Soul meant to say it's possible to make a separate weapon-type piece of equipment. So does that mean using currents on the armour is permissible in this specific situation, since HM would be using it for protection and as a weapon all at once? Or am I being a dumbass and misreading everything?? Feeling kinda boggled rn
 
Red Bovine said:
Didn't the QM mention that it was possible to make an armor with that master rune?
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bird yells said:
I'm a little confused on this issue. I'd taken for granted that putting the currents rune on the griffonking commission would require researching it first, just as you say, but then I saw Soul make this post:



The post was made in reply to someone asking about incorporating currents into the armour, so I don't think Soul meant to say it's possible to make a separate weapon-type piece of equipment. So does that mean using currents on the armour is permissible in this specific situation, since HM would be using it for protection and as a weapon all at once? Or am I being a dumbass and misreading everything?? Feeling kinda boggled rn
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He's basically talking about metal claws used as weapons to fit over the Sky King's own claws a la a caestus or tiger claws or katar.

You can make a weapon which is basically a spiky set of gauntlets and put weapon runes on it, is my interpretation of what soul said.
 
Idea:

A multi-set piece of armor, weapon (talon gauntlets) and talisman. 6 in total. Aim to create a three way combo of combos. It would "only" cost us 4 actions.
 
The Gauntlets on the King's armor count as enough of a weapon to be enchanted with a weapon rune. It looks like one of the Grey areas of the magic system.

I still disagree with using the precious Master Rune slot on the armor for a weapon rune though. Maybe we could make weapons and armor?


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EVA-Saiyajin said:
A multi-set piece of armor, weapon (talon gauntlets) and talisman. 6 in total. Aim to create a three way combo of combos. It would "only" cost us 4 actions.
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Given KoS is already wearing a talisman (Ancestors Torc), i don't think we can fit another on a Griffon, i'm open to creative ideas, of course
 
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IronFist said:
The Gauntlets on the King's armor count as enough of a weapon to be enchanted with a weapon rune. It looks like one of the Grey areas of the magic system.

I still disagree with using the precious Master Rune slot on the armor for a weapon rune though. Maybe we could make weapons and armor?
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So the way I see it is thus:

Gauntlets meant to be a weapon are classed as the users Weapon. Full three set of Runes.
Armor designed to be the users armor are classed as the users Armor. Full three set of Runes.

Basically, I take souls post to be saying that "yeah fist weapons get counted as weapons, not armor by the Runes" since that makes the entire system hang together consistently.


IronFist said:
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Given KoS is already wearing a talisman (Ancestors Torc), i don't think we can fit another on a Griffon, i'm open to creative ideas, of course
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Soul has said that the slots are: Armor, 2 enchanted items (which include talismans), 2 weapons (greatweapons count as 2)
 
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