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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Red Bovine said:
Edit: Wait, nevermind thought that you were using an Adamant bar on one of the cloaks
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Ah, no worries. Nah, the plan is Otrek's armour is entirely adamant, Gloins is primarily pure gromril with Dragonbone and Dragonhide accents/finishes. Then the cloaks and dowry are as is, except for substituting T4 frostwyrm blood for the rune of frost.

The vote for the dowry states it's using the T4 hide we got as well, and soulcake said that the hide we'd of been using was frostwyrm anyway so it's just a straight upgrade there.
 
BungieONI said:
I generally agree with the thrust of your point, its actually very insightful to note that the Gronti's equipment will probably get more than 2 actions into it by default. If we want to make a Bloodthirster sized Gronti however, and want to use Adamant in its equipment, then the Gronti's size actually does become a problem in terms of time. Not everyone is going to be patient enough to set aside the amounts of Adamant required to make a piece of equipment for a Bloodthirster sized Gronti on like a consistent level.

An Ogre sized gronti already would require 2 bars of adamant and 6 for a full suit of armor. If it has four pieces of equipment (weapon, shield, talisman, banner) that is 12 pieces of Adamant, for an Ogre sized Gronti. For a Bloodthirster sized one I think the bar requirements are either 4 bars or 6? Soul's talked about it before. Several centuries to fully kit out the gronti with it being a consistent thing in the background of turn planning is a pretty big deal, since that's easily a month IRL.
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Personally I'm not super interested in using Adamant in its equipment. Not only will that take forever and a day just waiting for the required amount of Adamant to stockpile but only making a portion of the equipment from Adamant only provides a small boost in the power of the Runes. Simply not worth it to me. I would much rather simply makes its equipment from Pure Gromril.
 
Enthusiast#117 said:
I wouldn't put it past people. We're doing the same thing with the Dowry and the Armors right now, after all.
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Remarkable passive aggressiveness aside, the vote is put together in such a way because of time crunch. Sure, the armour isn't due this turn but the prestige for having them available at the wedding outweighs most possible extra AP actions.

The time crunch though, that's mostly due to how difficult it is to keep on track especially with the time period we're in. We need things done and I figure doing the armour and ensuring the survival of the king and heir is worth it.
 
One thing that we must take into account is that with the actual smelters we can get a maximum of 1.5 bars of adamantium per turn, but furthering the Metal research we are probably going to see a notable increase of this amount...

So I think that we should take the Metal Rune part 5 before committing to anything with the Heart...
 
Enthusiast#117 said:
That just means we need more research though? It's been implied there's better methods of Adamant generation lurking in the tech tree somewhere. Even just halving the time would be significant.
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Thats why Im advocating making the Sky King's Armor with the Icy Wyrm bits in the next few turns.

If anythings gonna be highly attuned to guzzling down Magical energies to be repurposed into something more useful and be T5, it'll be from whatever we can carve off the Suneaters corpse.

A Healing Banner has its uses sure.

But what about that Ancestor Ward combo amped up with T5 Ingredients powering it?

Burning our Favor with the Sky King on securing somma dat for ourselves is more than worthwhile.
 
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Garlak said:
I really want to see what the Rune of Grimnir does with "Might" and "Fury" too. Having the Awakening rune in there neatly has you end up with a sentence/theme of "Awakening the Might/Fury of Grimnir!"

I personally favor Might or Fury; because, well... it makes more thematic or grammatical sense? You know, stuff like "You have awakened the fury of an ancestor god..." As words, both Might and Fury lend themselves to becoming statements, more easily than does Fortitude. Wish I could use both Might and Fury alongside Grimnir, but that's not possible for a Golem -- I guess I'll have to save it for a weapon, that'd be a cool runic combo probably.

... Althooough... Although...


Didn't soulcake just recently make a post that "Using the Master Rune of Awakening on a Pendant, and other Runes, to boost the Golem would be ???"

Because... because I now have a great idea for something to try.

Talisman: Master Rune of Awakening + Rune of Might + Rune of Fury.

The Golem bears the Rune of Grimnir, doesn't it? Well. If the Talisman has a Rune that's about "awakening" something... as if bringing forth something from its wearer...

Well, Grimnir is Mighty and Furious (and Valiant; fun fact the 8th edition's Stalwart Rune is a combo of 6th edition's Stalwart and Valiant runes)... so if the Talisman were awakening something, maybe the Golem's rune of Grimnir would resonate well?

Gah. I want to throw together the rune of Grimnir with the Might and Fury runes, but a Talisman is the only other place that can hold a Master Rune of Awakening/Animation, so... gah. And you could make it Awakening + Grimnir + a third, but... damn. Hmm...

Actually, I suppose that could be a Multi-Piece Set Item, couldn't it? Using the Rune of Grimnir in Talismans, Golems, or Weapons.

Gah, how to arrange it, how to arrange it. I can almost see the end result. I can give them names. But I'm not sure how exactly to achieve it.

"The Might of Grimnir" "The Fury of Grimnir" "The Fortitude of Grimnir"

Might, Fury, and Grimnir can go on weapons or talisman (or even the Golem itself), but I don't know how best to do it...

Golem: Awakening+Grimnir+Fortitude, aka "The Fortitude of Grimnir."
Talisman: Awakening+Grimnir+Might/Fury/something(?), "The Might/Fury(?) of Grimnir"
Axe: Grimnir+Fury+question mark? could be a second Fury rune, could be a Fire rune, "The Fury of Grimnir"
Axe: Grimnir+Might+question mark, probably a second Might rune?, "The Might of Grimnir"
Axe: Grimnir+Fury+Might, "The Furious Might of Grimnir!"

I can almost but not quite picture the end result. There's a lot of interchangeability. And it probably shouldn't use the Rune of Grimnir more than twice, maybe three times. But there are also lots of other cool, appropriate, or useful, weapon combos that we might want to play around -- like twin Fire and Frost axes, or a Daemonslaying weapon, or a weapon bearing the Master Rune of Smiting or the Master Rune of Breaking... And the Talisman, uniquely being the only other location that can hold the Master Rune of Awakening, thus means you're incentivized to place runes that would synergize with Awakening...

Can anybody help, comment, critique, suggest?
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It makes me think of an Icon of Grimnir. That's basically what you're doing here, making a Golem whose equipment and body are all geared towards Grimnir things and representing Grimnir.

As soulcake said here:

soulcake said:
Consider the purview of the specific Ancestor then apply that to the equipment its being applied to. The Rune of Grimnir improves your fighting ability in the context of Grimnir, how it does so depends on the equipment. On an axe, the weapon becomes sharper, stronger, harder. Not as much as an individual Rune for each effect, but it does a bunch of things that improve what makes that axe killier in a multitude of ways and further it empowers any other Runes on that Axe if they fit under his purview as the Ancestor of Warriors. The same then goes for Morgrim, Thungni, Smednir and Gazul.
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And like, a Shield is a tool for war, defending oneself in war. A Rune of Grimnir on a shield should make it a better shield, and enhance the runes on that shield that make it a better shield. Or an hammer, runes that make it a better killing hammer that are inline with his purview on that axe will be better.

Grimnir+Fury+Fire could be like "The Burning Fury of Grimnir!" And stuff like that so I think you're on to something.

Enthusiast#117 said:
That just means we need more research though? It's been implied there's better methods of Adamant generation lurking in the tech tree somewhere. Even just halving the time would be significant.
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I don't really expect to ever halve the time to make it. As it stands that would mean 2 bars a turn. We could pump out Armor sets consistently every other turn. Or make a Bloodthirster Sized Gronti, 32 bars, in 16 turns.

As we make more smelters, that'll go up as well. With a third smelter, that's around 3 or so every two turns, napkin math estimate. Halving the time of that is 6 every 2 turns.

I think we will find ways to make it faster, but that much faster starts to strain the point of limiting throughput. Maybe reduce it by one third or one quarter? Or find another means of production? But generally I'm going to assume the production we will have is primarily limited by Smelters.
 
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I think it'll be a huge morale boost for the Hold and refugees to see the king garbed in some strange form of Gromril only ever seen on or made by Ancestor Gods. If done when people from other Holds are visiting for the Wedding, it'll spread faster and further.
 
Enthusiast#117 said:
I wouldn't put it past people. We're doing the same thing with the Dowry and the Armors right now, after all.
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Not really. Depending on the plan both commissions are getting an ok amount of overflow and moreover the Dowry items aren't really things that would benefit over much from a lot of over flow points.

We're also on something of a time crunch with a big ol Drogre coming for our asses and chaos flooding the world.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
I think it'll be a huge morale boost for the Hold and refugees to see the king garbed in some strange form of Gromril only ever seen on or made by Ancestor Gods. If done when people from other Holds are visiting for the Wedding, it'll spread faster and further.
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Yeah, the delegates from the other holds and especially the hold the princess is marrying into? They'll definitely be there to see Otrek decked out in strangely gleaming Gromril armour. Plus with all of the runesmiths in the hold? Every time Otrek goes out to campaign he'd be wearing adamant armour. How much Runesmiths do you think will be hit with inspiration to try and figure out why their Gromril crafts don't gleam as bright as his armour?
 
UlseDovThur said:
Not really. Depending on the plan both commissions are getting an ok amount of overflow and moreover the Dowry items aren't really things that would benefit over much from a lot of over flow points.

We're also on something of a time crunch with a big ol Drogre coming for our asses and chaos flooding the world.
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Uh actually, here's the thing. The Runes we put on it and the Effort we put in are the main determiners of how good a item is. So it is semi-important that they get a good amount of overflow. (Because of this the Armors need a lot of actions because they have no Combo)
 
An Amulet takes what? One bar of Adamant? Half? A weapon take one or two. I really would prefer a balance of quality and quantity. I really dont want to hoard the stuff for half a century at a time to churn out one or two armors and an eventual Giant Golem worth more than the Karaz Ankor GDP for a decade.

Armor Runes are the one set of Runes we have no known combos and barely any Master Runes in. So it's generally gonna be generic super unbreakable armor every time.

Weve got no good Runes and no good combos for armor so we are dumping T4s by the bucket load trying to decent it up. For all the uber materials dont make the best rune stuff talk it sure goes out the window when it comes to breastplates and giant robots.
 
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BungieONI said:
Uh actually, here's the thing. The Runes we put on it and the Effort we put in are the main determiners of how good a item is. So it is semi-important that they get a good amount of overflow. (Because of this the Armors need a lot of actions because they have no Combo)
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Was more talking about the cloaks and amulet. The plans I went for were the ones giving the armors the most actions.
 
Abhishek M said:
Ah Amulet takes what? One bar of Adamant? Half? A weapon take one or two. I really would prefer a balance of quality and quantity. I really dont want to hoard the stuff for half a century at a time to churn out one or two armors and an eventual Giant Golem worth more than the Karaz Ankor GDP for a year.

Armor Runes are the one set of Runes we have no known combos and barely any Master Runes in. So it's generally gonna be generic super unbreakable armor every time.
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One bar for an amulet. It's a "piece of equipment".

UlseDovThur said:
Was more talking about the cloaks and amulet. The plans I went for were the ones giving the armors the most actions.
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I know, what I'm pointing out is that the idea that the Dowry items are stuff that doesn't benefit from effort is off base. Effort is important to how good things come out from what soul has told us regardless of whatever the thing is.
 
Captain Spatula said:
Remarkable passive aggressiveness aside, the vote is put together in such a way because of time crunch. Sure, the armour isn't due this turn but the prestige for having them available at the wedding outweighs most possible extra AP actions.

The time crunch though, that's mostly due to how difficult it is to keep on track especially with the time period we're in. We need things done and I figure doing the armour and ensuring the survival of the king and heir is worth it.
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And there will always be a necessity of the moment, tempting us to hurry up and finish sooner, even if it means comprising.

You're assuming that the future situation will be somehow different than this one, but nothing about the pressures in this vote can't be recreated in their essentials later on.

Why would you expect different behavior than what's happening now?
 
[X] Plan For the Dragon Hold and Armor!
[X] Wedding Works

Personally, I'd rather have the banner done as well this turn, but eh, getting the armor done is my biggest priority.
 
Enthusiast#117 said:
And there will always be a necessity of the moment, tempting us to hurry up and finish sooner, even if it means comprising.

You're assuming that the future situation will be somehow different than this one, but nothing about the pressures in this vote can't be recreated in their essentials later on.

Why would you expect different behavior than what's happening now?
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Because if folks can be convinced to stick to a schedule, then they will.

They just gotta be talked into believing that its worthwhile to do so.
 
Enthusiast#117 said:
And there will always be a necessity of the moment, tempting us to hurry up and finish sooner, even if it means comprising.

You're assuming that the future situation will be somehow different than this one, but nothing about the pressures in this vote can't be recreated in their essentials later on.

Why would you expect different behavior than what's happening now?
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Because knocking these 2 requests out now leaves us with the request from the King in the Skies and that needs us to figure out what we're doing first. We won't be as pressed for time so we can actually prepare for it.
 
Captain Spatula said:
Because knocking these 2 requests out now leaves us with the request from the King in the Skies and that needs us to figure out what we're doing first. We won't be as pressed for time so we can actually prepare for it.
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A plurality of planmakers have an idea on how to invest actions next turn to prep that armor into being a proper Masterwork.

That is, flat out, the best thing we can do for the War Effort right now.
 
BungieONI said:
One bar for an amulet. It's a "piece of equipment".


I know, what I'm pointing out is that the idea that the Dowry items are stuff that doesn't benefit from effort is off base. Effort is important to how good things come out from what soul has told us regardless of whatever the thing is.
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I'm not saying they don't benefit but it's more that they benefit a lot less than armor or weapons. All of their value come from the Runes they're inscribed with to put out their effects. But those effect are passive and the items don't really have any other... uses? Is that the word? Armor and weapons however can fit a lot more functional complexity in them. Weapons need to be properly designed taking into account weight, balance, size and Armors, especially plate, need to be properly designed to both cover the wearer and still provide plenty of movement and such.

The Cloaks and Amulet though... I mean they're cloaks and an amulet. Their only function is based in thier Runes, not in their forms as it were. As long as the Runes are taken care of and the material used is solid there just isn't a lot more we can do to improve them.
 
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A part of me has been strongly considering a new weapon, an Axe, using the Brain of the Frostwyrm and its blood for Master Rune of Currents, Rune of Frost, and Rune of Striking, and a bar of Adamant.

The North Wind bites all in its path, slipping around mountains and into crevices to bring its chill to everything that is.

Now that would probably be a cold based counterpart to Trollslayer.
 
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