Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Reader mode
Let's not forget that QMs generally (that is to say, are only obligated to) only take into account what's in the plan, not discussion surrounding it, so that we spoke of the summon clan trade with Mist doesn't mean anything if it's not in the plan.
 
And that Hazou's end goal includes international trade even between nations in tense diplomatic positions. And him shooting past "trade between allies" - the intermediate step - and straight to the happy end state of his very clear and enormous vision is totally the character.
 
nevereatcars said:
And that Hazou's end goal includes international trade even between nations in tense diplomatic positions. And him shooting past "trade between allies" - the intermediate step - and straight to the happy end state of his very clear and enormous vision is totally the character.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Hivemind: OK, just to be on the safe side, mention trade with Mist.
Hazo: And don't you rather trade than fight Cloud and Rock?
Hivemind: NANI?!
 
Kiba said:
Hivemind: OK, just to be on the safe side, mention trade with Mist.
Hazo: And don't you rather trade than fight Cloud and Rock?
Hivemind: NANI?!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Kinda rambly because this is my second all-nighter in a row, but...

I mean, it fits with Hazou's character. He's always been the earnest visionary, the idealist with his eyes on the horizon of what "could be" or "should be," rather than "what is." My take is that Hazou got too caught up in the Uplift dream and grew too familiar with Asuma too quickly and just assumed --a thing that Hazou does often enough --that Asuma was naturally on his side. Because Asuma's a kind and understanding man, shouldn't he see why everyone deserves Uplift?

Part of that mistake is Youth. Hazou's young enough that he's never really suffered loss to an enemy village. He was an outcast in Mist and the only people he really cared about in the Swamp are with him today. His father died before Hazou could really get to know him and he hasn't really lost anyone important to him since. Only Mari's bout of crippling depression came close, and that was cauterized by his own mother (talk about future issues and awkward family reunions) in a way that was arguably worse than the wound itself. Even Jiraiya was still in the awkward mom's-boyfriend stage (or... maybe cool-uncle stage?), rather than anything really familial.

But most of Hazou's mistakes are because Hazou's a dreamer. He is the dreamer of impossible dreams and the visionary who dares to hope for a better world. Hazou wants to reshape the world to his benevolent will and has the determination to, arguably enough, make it happen. I think that Ino's not wrong to worry for/about Hazou. He could very likely become the next Hashirama, who forged the Hidden Village Era through dreams of peace and the blood of his opposition. But even he had Tobimaru. And if his MfD iteration was anything like he was in canon, then Tobimaru was more down-to-earth than his brother. He was the executor, the do-er, the more practically-minded to the Hashirama's planner.

Hazou will figure it out eventually. Given time, he'll grow into an unstoppable force in his own right. But he needs to grow into that person. He's not a legend yet. So he'll stumble and make assumptions. He'll taste his foot a few times and piss people off occasionally. Given his personality and the world at large, he'll probably even make some major fuck ups that leave those under his care dead or distrustful. But Hazou'll learn, if he survives his own mistakes. Because, like Hashirama, Hazou has dared to dream, dared to fly the flight of the hopeful, and he will never deign to return to the ground until it matches his vision of what "should be."

Oh, side thought: Hazou's a good person. And good people are either broken by the indifferent world around them or are otherwise forged into greatness. And great people --monolithic titans of legend and myth that they are --rarely have the luxury of being "good."

(Yes, I realize that Hazou's a hollow-ish puppet for the Hivemind to direct at our consensus, but I still think his narrative-character is pretty interesting and worth examination)
 
Last edited:
RandomOTP said:
Kinda rambly because this is my second all-nighter in a row, but...

I mean, it fits with Hazou's character. He's always been the earnest visionary, the idealist with his eyes on the horizon of what "could be" or "should be," rather than "what is." My take is that Hazou got too caught up in the Uplift dream and grew too familiar with Asuma and just assumed --a thing that Hazou does often enough --that Asuma was naturally on his side. Because Asuma's a kind and understanding man, shouldn't he see why everyone deserves Uplift?

Part of that mistake is Youth. Hazou's young enough that he's never really suffered loss to an enemy village. He was an outcast in Mist and the only people he really cared about in the Swamp are with him today. His father died before Hazou could really get to know him and he hasn't really lost anyone important to him since. Only Mari's bout of crippling depression came close, and that was cauterized by his own mother (talk about future issues and awkward family reunions) in a way that was arguably worse than the wound itself. Even Jiraiya was still in the awkward mom's-boyfriend stage, or maybe or cool-uncle stage, rather than anything really familial.

But most of Hazou's mistakes are because Hazou's a dreamer. He is the dreamer of impossible dreams and the visionary who dares to hope for a better world. Hazou wants to reshape the world to his benevolent will and has the determination to, arguably enough, make it happen. I think that Ino's not wrong to worry for/about Hazou. He could very likely become the next Hashirama, who forged the Hidden Village Era through dreams of peace and the blood of his opposition. But even he had Tobimaru. And if his MfD iteration was anything like he was in canon, then he was more down-to-earth than his brother. He was the executor, the do-er, the more practically-minded to the Hashirama's planner.

Hazou will figure it out eventually. Given time, he'll grow into an unstoppable force in his own right. But he needs to grow into that person. He's not a legend yet. So he'll stumble and make assumptions. He'll taste his foot a few times and piss people off occasionally. He'll probably even make some major fuck ups that leave those under his care dead or distrustful. But Hazou'll learn, if he survives his own mistakes. Because, like Hashirama, Hazou has dared to dream, dared to fly the flight of the hopeful, and he will never deign to return to the ground until it matches his vision of what "should be."

Oh, side thought: Hazou's a good person. And good people are either broken by the world or are forged into greatness. And great people --monolithic titans of legend and myth that they are --rarely have the luxury of being "good."

(Yes, I realize that Hazou's a hollow-ish puppet for the Hivemind to direct at our consensus, but I still think his narrative-character is pretty interesting and worth examination)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Actually, there's a pretty decent way for us to avoid this particular issue in the future. Consider for a moment, how differently the discussion with Asuma would have gone if Hazou had made a concerted effort to read everything Hashirama wrote. Remember, Hashirama is near-deified by Leaf.

If when Asuma had said,
Asuma said:
"Would I rather be smiling and enriching the people who traitorously attacked us in our moment of grief? The cowards who dropped my childhood friends into a pit from ambush? The people who, within my lifetime, have butchered thousands of Leaf ninja? Those people?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hazou had, instead of "um", had something to say about how Hashirama approached the unification with the Uchiha -- his clan's former, long-time enemy -- the conversation could have gone very differently.
 
Cariyaga said:
Actually, there's a pretty decent way for us to avoid this particular issue in the future. Consider for a moment, how differently the discussion with Asuma would have gone if Hazou had made a concerted effort to read everything Hashirama wrote. Remember, Hashirama is near-deified by Leaf.

If when Asuma had said [...] Hazou had, instead of "um", had something to say about how Hashirama approached the unification with the Uchiha -- his clan's former, long-time enemy -- the conversation could have gone very differently.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Okay, you are a magnificent person and you're awesome. Why haven't we thought about that before? Hashirama was too much of a dreamer not to write his beliefs down and Tobimaru was likely savvy enough to use them to slowly indoctrinate the following generations of Leaf ninja. I mean, I doubt that's what Tobimaru was intentionally doing. He was probably similarly swept up in his brother's orbit --though to a lesser degree, having grown up with the little shit --and probably just wanted a foundation of similar ideologies to bind all the clans together, against outside invasions.

Point being: this is a wonderful idea and Hashirama's writings might be the Leaf's equivalent of Bibles in the American South (most everyone has one in their homes, regardless of whether or not they "believe" and get side-eyed if they don't... a dangerous thing in a Hidden Village). Hell, the other clans might very well think it's weird that Hazou doesn't have one.

...Though I suppose that Asuma might have been upset enough to pull the "what would a Mist ninja know about Hashirama" card. I doubt that he'd really mean it, but Asuma was genuinely offended and people say a lot of things they don't necessarily mean when they're offended --even the nice ones.
 
Last edited:
Cariyaga said:
Actually, there's a pretty decent way for us to avoid this particular issue in the future. Consider for a moment, how differently the discussion with Asuma would have gone if Hazou had made a concerted effort to read everything Hashirama wrote. Remember, Hashirama is near-deified by Leaf.

If when Asuma had said,
Hazou had, instead of "um", had something to say about how Hashirama approached the unification with the Uchiha -- his clan's former, long-time enemy -- the conversation could have gone very differently.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
New Ami-style training idea:

Exhaustively research Hashirama and all the other great Leaf heroes, and win a debate against Keiko (in private) that The Spirit of YOUTH is compatible with each of their philosophies.

Edit:
I'd make it against someone else or in public, but I don't really want to get executed for heresy or something.

Edit 2:
Alternatively:
Exhaustively research Hashirama and all the other great Leaf heroes, and win a debate about their motivations against Shikamaru.

It might not be weird and fun enough to count, but it has a higher difficulty.
 
Last edited:
Kiba said:
Preliminary plan.

[X] Action Plan: Dont Wanna Do This But Do It Right



Check with team. Field suggestions and ideas. Adjust according to feedback. Execute.
  • Precautions:
    • Note ninja, escape routes. Just in case.
  • Scope out the shrine, make a pilgrimage, and gather info.
    • Make an honest pilgrimage, try to genuinely find out the history of the place and all the accompanying minutiae. Go all out, we want to be able to write a book about this.
      • Ask after the Porcupine summoner. You heard they were here? Make it part of questions about local legends.
      • Write down all the answers. Make a mental note of interesting bits of information (with respect to the Porcupine Summoner, the scroll, or Forbidden Lore(TM).
    • Talk to a wide variety of (hopefully) knowledgeable and influential-- monks, religious figures, guards captains, etc. The more info and perspectives you can get the better.
  • Make a note of other pilgrims. Anyone of interest?
  • After the first day, regroup at camp and share information you've found with each other under the usual OPSEC measures (Air Dome, Earth Dome, etc.)
  • Afterhours
    • Hazo conducts scientific experiment on rocks. Heavier rocks fall faster, right?
    • Mingle with merchants. See who could be recruited for the merchant information network. Aim for diversity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Make action plan less wordy. Get serious about merchant network. Add precaution.
 
[X] Action Plan: Dont Wanna Do This But Do It Right

Did someone mention density experiments and merchant networks? Count me in!
 
[X] Action Plan: Opening Moves

Really think we should be focusing on the mission. I think that by the time we get back the contest will be over.
 
faflec said:
[X] Action Plan: Opening Moves

Really think we should be focusing on the mission. I think that by the time we get back the contest will be over.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Then I want us to skip on the mission. It's self-assigned, and if we don't get back in time to submit J's seals I will be very fucking upset.
 
Kiba said:
Preliminary plan.

[X] Action Plan: Dont Wanna Do This But Do It Right



Check with team. Field suggestions and ideas. Adjust according to feedback. Execute.
  • Precautions:
    • Note ninja, escape routes. Just in case.
  • Scope out the shrine, make a pilgrimage, and gather info.
    • Make an honest pilgrimage, try to genuinely find out the history of the place and all the accompanying minutiae. Go all out, we want to be able to write a book about this.
      • Ask after the Porcupine summoner. You heard they were here? Make it part of questions about local legends.
      • Write down all the answers. Make a mental note of interesting bits of information (with respect to the Porcupine Summoner, the scroll, or Forbidden Lore(TM).
    • Talk to a wide variety of (hopefully) knowledgeable and influential-- monks, religious figures, guards captains, etc. The more info and perspectives you can get the better.
  • Make a note of other pilgrims. Anyone of interest?
  • After the first day, regroup at camp and share information you've found with each other under the usual OPSEC measures (Air Dome, Earth Dome, etc.)
  • Afterhours (If spare time left)
    • Hazo conducts scientific experiment on rocks. Heavier rocks fall faster, right?
    • Mingle with merchants. See who could be recruited for the merchant information network. Aim for diversity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Clarify that afterhours section are for spare time only. @faflec does this assuage your concern?

Edit: Doh! Ninjaed. Even so, let me know if this change is good enough for ya.
 
Last edited:
Sampatrick said:
This seems like a deliberately hostile reading of the plantext
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The QMs have been consistently fair and evenhanded with interpreting plans. Not every interpretation of the plans may be something we're happy with, but they've been fair interpretations. If there's something specific that you believe was an error or oversight the QMs have made corrections in the past, but poor phrasing on our part is on us.
 
Kiba said:
Clarify that afterhours section are for spare time only. @faflec does this assuage your concern?

Edit: Doh! Ninjaed. Even so, let me know if this change is good enough for ya.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It kinda doesn't, mainly because of the second concern I had in my above post. I honestly believe that doing serious experimentation on effects of gravity requires complicated apparatus and repeated experimentation under stable conditions, which is difficult to do while on a mission. Also, merchant empire building is something very difficult to do if considered to be an 'afterhours' thing.
 
faflec said:
It kinda doesn't, mainly because of the second concern I had in my above post. I honestly believe that doing serious experimentation on effects of gravity requires complicated apparatus and repeated experimentation under stable conditions, which is difficult to do while on a mission. Also, merchant empire building is something very difficult to do if considered to be an 'afterhours' thing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
faflec said:
It kinda doesn't, mainly because of the second concern I had in my above post. I honestly believe that doing serious experimentation on effects of gravity requires complicated apparatus and repeated experimentation under stable conditions, which is difficult to do while on a mission. Also, merchant empire building is something very difficult to do if considered to be an 'afterhours' thing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

1. What experiment do you have in mind that requires special equipment? This experiment requires nothing more than steady hands, weights, and careful observation.

2. What is your concern that would eat operational time?
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top