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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Honestly speaking, there is good reason for Hazo to get more Chakra Reserves anyway. In spars he just ends up burning through a lot of it on the Pangolin Jutsu. He has no sustain.
 
Shard said:
Honestly speaking, there is good reason for Hazo to get more Chakra Reserves anyway. In spars he just ends up burning through a lot of it on the Pangolin Jutsu. He has no sustain.
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Do you remember back when we wanted to raise CR high because PEA was so good and we wanted to be able to properly utilize it? That was 3 or 4 "Wait, THIS is the thing we need to increase because it's most important"s ago, I think.
 
Shard said:
Honestly speaking, there is good reason for Hazo to get more Chakra Reserves anyway. In spars he just ends up burning through a lot of it on the Pangolin Jutsu. He has no sustain.
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Halberdier said:
Do you remember back when we wanted to raise CR high because PEA was so good and we wanted to be able to properly utilize it? That was 3 or 4 "Wait, THIS is the thing we need to increase because it's most important"s ago, I think.
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Right, but if you do Resolve and SC first while ignoring CR and relying on Noburi, you can just boost CR to 40-50 in a fraction of the time anyway, and then we're good to go.
 
To be honest, I'm still not totally on board with a chakra farm. But if we talk to Noburi about it first --to get his opinion on the topic --I'd be willing to vote for a plan that includes it. Again, contingent upon Hazou making sure Noburi's okay with it. Hazou's accidental thoughtlessness has damaged his relationship with Noburi before but, so far, Noburi's been willing to forgive him. Let's not push that. Even if it's offscreened, I want to make sure we're not accidentally pushing at Noburi's insecurities again.
 
RandomOTP said:
I like the idea of changing up the current Anbu system (perfect time for that, I suppose). But I'm not sure what motivation the clans have to spill their secrets, especially the ones that they're not comfortable giving away to the "common" Leaf nin. There's no reward and they're already uncomfortable giving away their more harmless/useless/common techniques away, so why would they give their more important/vital ones?

I doubt that the Anbu-only policy would last long, especially if it excludes the Hokage. Ninja copy and steal techniques. It's the way way of a ninja to cheat and most ninja only shrug and go "yeah, they're ninja. What'd you expect?" So even if there's an official policy of Anbu-only pool of techniques, I doubt that it'd stay that way for long. Jutsu Hackers are a thing and not all ninja have Leaf's honor-policy. And if an Anbu-only technique spreads to even one person outside of op-sec, then that blows away the "retraction" option that the clans have. I suppose it's possible, but it'd need some serious op-sec policies to ensure security, along with some serious motivation that even outstrips the rewards of Asuma's current competition --which has some pretty hefty rewards.

And for the "loyalty to only the Leaf..." well. That sounds a little too much like Root for me to be comfortable with. It seems like a slippery slope to go from "loyalty to the Leaf" to "if it's for the Leaf," to even "Anything for the Leaf!" And that's how you get Root-sponsered genocides that lead to Pain becoming a thing.

All in all? I think it's a good idea, just needs more polish. Depending on the details, I'd vote for it.
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First of all, I appreciate the feedback and the encouragement, thank you. Now let's go into the polishing state thanks to the feedback

Motivation: Fair Enough, so let's see what we can use to bring the Clan to accept
1)Goketsu acceptance of the motion, leveraging our loyalty to Leaf to force the most loyal(*cough* Inuzuka*cough*) to follow us simply to not do "less" than the foreign[Asuma can use some of Jiraya's seals as our contribution to the ANBU]
2)The Danger of the situation, in which strong ANBU could save the village
3)The fact that don't really lose anything, their secret remain safe and only used by ANBUs(also used selectively, not all at once)
4)The honor of naming and being responsible for creating the future heroes of Leaf(Create one ANBU for clan?)
5)If Asuma is on board, it's already two clans(Sarutobi+Goketsu), As long as we can convince enough to make refusing shameful, things will just snowball(ISC could see the appeal of stronger ANBU and accept, making everything after than pretty easy)
6)Some prize for the clan that accepts?(Ex.The techniques give will count for the competition, but won't be shared?)
7)Maybe give some choice where to sent these new ANBU to the Clan Council? With the Hokage having two or three times the vote of the clan? That would be pretty interesting for the Clans

Stealing Techniques: This is pretty much technical, much like Clan Secret,so it something that should be worked on by the Tower/Nara, regardless we can create an idea on where to go
1) Techniques are only teachable for the given ANBU designation:
(Example. "Sword" is the only person that can learn techniques gifted for "Sword Designation ANBU", no one else), this means that only one person knows the techniques, therefore the chances for the techniques being leaked become minimal.
1.a) I would propose this because an ANBU-only pool, well, means you need one ANBU leaking techniques or making an error, to lose all the techniques and i assume this is a risk the clans wouldn't be ready to accept
2)Penalty for leaking techniques to others is extremely harsh: Shadow Clone/Leaking Clan Secrets harsh
3)Clan found out "stealing" or trying to "steal" said techniques will receive harsh sanctions by all the other clans+Tower
4)Maybe give authorization only to proven individual(Much like SCs)

I assume Jutsu Hackers don't count, but it's an important question, what happen if a Jutsu Hacker re-invent, for example, the Nara's Shadow Jutsus, without stealing anything? Literally making it from scratch? Something to resolve, but i imagine Leaf already has a solution or the Jutsu Clan would be, well, without unique Jutsu by now.

With "Loyalty to Leaaf", i mean in the sense of the normal ANBU corps, that are loyal to the Hokage and not singular clan, meaning said clan shouldn't fear a Sarutobi ANBU stealing everything the second he/she/it get the techniques.

Also, i'm quite sure Haru would like something like this, because "more power to the clanless".
 
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Hmmm, after sleeping on it I don't think 'killbox' encapsulates the kind of risk we're taking. Given the context, that Asuma is giving us these orders for our own benefit rather than for the safety of Leaf and nothing got broken or anything, I doubt he'd go full killbox.

But, he'd still punish us, because if he didn't then he just proves his word free to contradict if you wriggle your way around it. And I think I know what he'd go for.

Remember how a little while ago we heard that Clan Heads were essentially the interface between a clan and the other clans and the Hokage, and so the rest of Konoha can oust a Clan Head if needbe? That sounds like a fitting punishment for a Hazou who ultimately means no harm but nonetheless does not appear to listen to orders. Perhaps with us needing Mari/Noburi's permission before we do anything we'll end up following orders more, and it's not like we stop being able to make seals or think up inventions - if anything, we'd have more time for it!

So, yeah. If Hazou proves disobedient with Asuma's orders I kinda expect his response to be something along the lines of 'go put someone else in charge of the Goketsu, because you're not a Clan Head anymore'.
 
I honestly don't get a big part of the whole 'let us ignore what the dictator tells us to do'. Like, he is not giving particularly abhorrent orders, and the singular order he gave that harmed civilians (the bridge) we took upon with great gutso.
 
Shard said:
Indirectly. The destruction of the bridge directly eliminated a trade route.

I don't know enough data to say whether this harm is significant or just irrelevant.
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faflec said:
Weren't there other bridges across the ravine, though?
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Yes. The whole point of destroying the bridge was so that it *wouldn't* become the sole trade route to that area. Well, and also so that the citizens of Fire who lived in the area wouldn't find themselves under the rule of a new power who might or might not be worse than the Hokage.
 
1234qwerty said:
It sounds like you're on team force wall?
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Hmmm. Well, I wouldn't mind testing it. I personally don't think it will end up being useful for reactionless propulsion, but it can't hurt to try, and I do think using it in hot air balloons would be feasible.

Plus I really want to be wrong about not being able to do reactionless propulsion. :D
 
[x] Action Plan: Kagome's Forbidden Lore
  • Discussants: Team Uplift only (+ Yuno?). Security level: high. Topic: global outside-context problems. Format: a series of meetings.
    • Don't take written materials on the topic beyond anti-Byakugan seals.
  • Subtopic 0: Groundwork.
    • There's evidence of actors playing at a level higher than the Kages', and reasons to believe that their actions are directly related to the fundamental mysteries: the nature of chakra, the Sage, and reality. Identifying said actors, and solving the mysteries, should be one of our priorities.
    • Rationale:
      • Politics and Uplift hardly matter if some eldritch abomination — or another Rinnegan-wielder — comes around and lays waste to everything within a decade, or a century. If it's probable, we should make anticipating and preventing it our main long-term goal.
      • Getting access to the resources of this magnitude would be immensely useful. If we rediscover the Sage's lost arts, Uplift would be all but trivial.
  • Subtopic 1: Concrete evidence.
    • - Akatsuki:
      --- Rinnegan, capable of resurrecting people and summoning abominations.
      --- The bird summon Ren slew.
      --- Their reality-altering plan, whatever its nature.
      - Tailed Beasts.
      - Summoning Scrolls: Describe Hazou's experience. Not just a hallucination: gave insight into sealing.
      - Whirlpool's disappearance.
      - Bear (possibly).
      - Sky Squids: In relation to Subtopic 2.
      - Chakra chameleons.
      - Sealing failures and Out.
      - Chakra in general.
    • Questions:
      • What is known about the Six Paths?
      • Any other weird historical, or modern, incidents?
      • What is known about Bear?
      • Are there other chakra-dense locations (see: Swamp of Death)?
    • Background task: Look for additional evidence, add to the list.
  • Subtopic 2: Kagome's claims
    • Write their summary beforehand, for Noburi, Akane.
    • Kagome: Did he update/re-evaluate any of that? Or recalled important details he'd missed before?
    • Evaluate their veracity (optimize the approach with Mari beforehand).
      • We believe they're based on reality, but Kagome's certainty that he's eliminated all misinformation, and made no errors, is... baffling, given that we're apparently dealing with conspiracies of demigods stretching back millennia. Sealmasters are good at finding patterns, but sometimes we simply don't have access to enough information; and in absence of it, tend to invent false assumptions and connections. He himself taught that.
        • And some of his predictions were provably wrong: Leaf doesn't seem inclined to deploy lupchanzen against us, and even Kagome didn't act as if Jiraiya'd been replaced by the Sage upon becoming Hokage.
      • Ask him to give detailed information about his sources, and how he arrived at his conclusions. Even if it's dangerous — it'd be even more dangerous to proceed blindly, or on possibly faulty assumptions. Like infusing a new seal with no safeguards because you're sure you got it right.
    • Consider designating this information a clan secret. Announce the decision before the meeting's end.
    • Background task (if Kagome agrees): Break down Kagome's claims and evaluate their plausibility one by one, cross-referencing with their sources. Identify the most likely ones, at least.
  • Subtopic 3: Pain and Akatsuki.
    • Share the BotG briefing. Points of interest:
      • RESURRECTION TECHNIQUE. And the "Outer Path" abomination.
      • Pain's goal and nature.
      • "The Five are still sealed after a thousand years of sacrifice'.
      • The bird summon — an archaeopteryx?
      • Fate of the lost bijuu.
      • Detailed description of the ritual site and Akatsuki's machine.
    • Ask for Kagome interpretations specifically
  • Subtopic 4: Theories and information gathering.
    • Prospective information sources:
      • - The Nara/Mori. Shikamaru and Ami in particular.
        - The Seventh Path. Ancient Boss Summons and the Library.
        - Akatsuki.
        - Tailed Beasts. Leaf sealmasters' information on how to seal them.
        - The Basement and Oro's organization: perhaps he knew something too.
        - Bear.
        - The Swamp of Death: very chakra-beast-dense, perhaps there's something interesting at the core?
        - The Nagi Island. Sealing arrays. (Ren could've downloaded them.)
        - Moudoku Village.
        - Isan. Yuno.
        - High-rank individuals and sealmasters. Sealed/classified records.
        - Whatever is beyond the ocean.
        - Religious organizations?
 
MMKII said:
Right, but if you do Resolve and SC first while ignoring CR and relying on Noburi, you can just boost CR to 40-50 in a fraction of the time anyway, and then we're good to go.
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I do get how the optimization works, and why it makes sense. Though also, I do remember at least a couple people proposing going straight for social enlightenment with the XP FOOM, rather than increase CR or any of our combat capabilities, which seemed like quite an oversight.
And also, playing nice with Asuma, the benevolently inclined powerful dictator who just have us a shiny new toy, seems worth the tradeoff of going FOOM less quickly at the start.
 
For Asuma's requirements, I will note that we can fulfill them with Pantokrator's Hammer, the tool that we would use to spar or fight.

175 CP to make a clone + 42 CP (3 Pantokrator's Hammers) + 42 CP (clone also gets half) = 259

So we can get away with CR 26 probably.

Moreover, I suspect that if we train Resolve and SC, then we can say to Asuma, "Look, we can keep a clone up for an hour and we've learned to handle the backlash from dispelling it without any headache. We can summon the clone and fight a bit, if maybe not fully to your requirements. We're not interested in killing ourselves, so we'll keep on working on our chakra reserves, but apart from that, we know what we're doing. You don't need to spend resources on babysitting us any longer."

He's reasonable. He'll probably go along with it.
 
1234qwerty said:
To clarify, do you think this extends to asking him to bend his rules without having broken them yet? I really don't like the tendency not to confirm certain assumptions -- like what happened with sticking to the idea of SC needing 35 CR without ever having Noburi check or other due diligence.
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Negotiating with Asuma over where exactly the CR line needs to be should be perfectly fine. At worst he chastises us a little for trying to get around a precaution taken for our own sake, but Hazou being eager to get on with full use of SC and thinking the precautions are overly careful isn't disobedience or a challenge to Asuma's authority.

It's best if we have a good reason to think it's possible, such as having Noburi observe on someone else the cost of the second SC and compare it against just one, but even if all Hazou has is a vague, unconvincing intuition that he's ready, I think Asuma would do little more than tell us to not risk our lives being impatient.
 
To be clear, we basically treat Force Walls as a lightweight, incredible sharp physical object. You push on it, it moves the way a normal physical object would move. It doesn't move towards you, or faster than you pushed, or whatever wackiness y'all are speculating. If you allow the frame to flex, the wall goes away and doesn't come back until you reactivate it. Also, the word "invulnerable" should be taken to mean "extremely strong" and "stronger than anything it has been tested against thus far" but not literally Platonically invulnerable.
 
Force Walls are completely unnecessary and flincky for making hot air balloons. We will have less hassles if we simply use fabrics.

If we have a good design, they could make good shields for a hot air balloon though.
 
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