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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Lord Marshal said:
we're going into a situation we could easily meet enemies of that caliber
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Ehhhhhhhh.

S-rankers aren't really like Pokemon, they don't just spawn unprovoked when we get into the weeds once far enough away from civilization.

Worst case is probably Akatsuki waking us up to respond to our damn message.
 
Lord Marshal said:
I see, my point wasn't "We're going to fight a summoner" but "Even Amy, a Jonin, prefer bringing a S-ranker when going into that kind of battlefield", i can see how my argument could be misunderstood, but core of it was "Ami, a Jonin, when going into a Jonin/S-Ranker Battlefield, is bringing an S-ranker", we're going into a situation we could easily meet enemies of that caliber with the least possible preparation.
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And I agree that if we went on a mission to hunt down and kill a rival Summoner for their scroll, not having strong backup would be an issue. But my counterargument is that we aren't going on this sort of mission; our goal is to find a scroll whose owner is dead, and we are specifically targeting scrolls with this in mind.
 
Hey @Noumero, not knocking the strategy for getting Mari the scroll...

But having thought this through, I fully expect it to go to Ami instead. Mari owes Ami a hell of a favor, after all, and Ami fulfills both the "social specialist" and "from a foreign village" roles.

'Course, Mari getting rid of that debt to Ami is a valid goal in itself so I fully support your wording.
 
MMKII said:
Ehhhhhhhh.

S-rankers aren't really like Pokemon, they don't just spawn unprovoked when we get into the weeds once far enough away from civilization.

Worst case is probably Akatsuki waking us up to respond to our damn message.
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faflec said:
And I agree that if we went on a mission to hunt down and kill a rival Summoner for their scroll, not having strong backup would be an issue. But my counterargument is that we aren't going on this sort of mission; our goal is to find a scroll whose owner is dead, and we are specifically targeting scrolls with this in mind.
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If we go completely unnoticed in and out?Of course, but let's put ourselves in shoes of our enemies, let's say you're Rock, and your spies warn you that us (The Sealmaster that Leaf broke every rules making a Leaf nin, just before unveiling the Skywalker seals) isn't in Leaf, what would you do in this relative period of peace where your S-rankers aren't really needed everywhere?
I would send at least an S-ranker + Jonins to capture or kill said Sealmaster, just because he could know the Skywalker seal, nevermind the fact he could be the one that invented them(Us or Kagome).
Now, i admit i could be missing something, maybe this place is far closer to Leaf that i understood, so the risk in minimal and i retract my objection in that case, but my larger point is that we're not missing nin anymore, we are highly relevant and interesting target for pretty much any village that isn't Leaf ally, and some that are, so we should take some precaution instead of just packing our things and go.
 
Lord Marshal said:
If we go completely unnoticed in and out?Of course, but let's put ourselves in shoes of our enemies, let's say you're Rock, and your spies warn you that us (The Sealmaster that Leaf broke every rules making a Leaf nin, just before unveiling the Skywalker seals) isn't in Leaf, what would you do in this relative period of peace where your S-rankers aren't really needed everywhere?
I would send at least an S-ranker + Jonins to capture or kill said Sealmaster, just because he could know the Skywalker seal, nevermind the fact he could be the one that invented them(Us or Kagome).
Now, i admit i could be missing something, maybe this place is far closer to Leaf that i understood, so the risk in minimal and i retract my objection in that case, but my larger point is that we're not missing nin anymore, we are highly relevant and interesting target for pretty much any village that isn't Leaf ally, and some that are, so we should take some precaution instead of just packing our things and go.
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A more interesting target is Naruto, who is even farther into hostile territory than we would be, and who is arguably far more dangerous in the foreseeable future.
 
Lord Marshal said:
If we go completely unnoticed in and out?Of course, but let's put ourselves in shoes of our enemies, let's say you're Rock, and your spies warn you that us (The Sealmaster that Leaf broke every rules making a Leaf nin, just before unveiling the Skywalker seals) isn't in Leaf, what would you do in this relative period of peace where your S-rankers aren't really needed everywhere?
I would send at least an S-ranker + Jonins to capture or kill said Sealmaster, just because he could know the Skywalker seal, nevermind the fact he could be the one that invented them(Us or Kagome).
Now, i admit i could be missing something, maybe this place is far closer to Leaf that i understood, so the risk in minimal and i retract my objection in that case, but my larger point is that we're not missing nin anymore, we are highly relevant and interesting target for pretty much any village that isn't Leaf ally, and some that are, so we should take some precaution instead of just packing our things and go.
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Except both Kagome and Hazō have been out of the village and ran missions in other countries since skywalkers got revealed. Asuma was even willing to let Kagome go on a mission just to keep him happy. So risk is negligible
 
Oneiros said:
word count: 244
[X] Action plan: The quest for the scroll
  • Meet with Ebisu. Get the results of his training.
    • If appropriate, send a report of the results to Asuma.
  • Discuss with the clan: the Scroll Hunt.
    • First: Condors.
      • If the Scroll's taken, Conjura won't be cooperative because Leaf also houses the Pangolins. It'll be caldera'd for Pangolin support or lay fallow until Conjura's hunted down (which may take years).
      • However, an elite social-spec might manage to negotiate for powerful jutsu/summoning contracts in exchange for moderating Pangolin aggression or (clandestinely) providing Conjura resources.
      • Present the idea to Asuma if Mari would be up to it and thinks Asuma'd agree.
    • Other Scrolls: we have all necessary information to start the mission. Should we recruit more ninja for firepower/support? Possibilities:
      • Mari:
        • Pros: works best with the team, incredibly talented.
        • Cons: retired, might not be able to spare her from political work.
      • Snake:
        • Pros: good relations, talented.
        • Cons: ANBU.
      • Anko:
        • Pros: social-spec, Mari's friend.
        • Cons: is Anko.
      • Tsunade:
        • Pros: most talented ninja available.
        • Cons: difficult to recruit.
      • Other ninja? Follow the clan/Mari's recommendations.
    • Pay any reasonable amount to recruit one (or more)of them.
    • Once recruited, Hazō, Akane, Haru and the others head to Todoroki Shrine.
      • Prepare disguise kits.
      • Meet with Jiraiya's contacts. Look for anyone who came from Sky or Moon in the past 20 years, civilian or ninja.
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A couple of comments:

Meet with Ebisu. Get the results of his training.

1. Rather than having Ebisu verbally communicate the results of his training, why not ask him to have his students conduct a demonstration of what they have learned? This fulfills a couple of goals:
a. Prevents Ebisu from shading results in one direction or another out of pride or perfectionism.
b. Asuma or more likely one of Asuma's trusted agents can come see the results in person instead of reading a report.
c. More exciting scene for the QMs to write (VERY IMPORTANT)

Discuss with the clan: the Scroll Hunt.

1. You're spending a lot of word count on potentially recruiting other ninjas, but have you considered you're looking at this the wrong way by talking in terms of personal relationships? The best way to recruit ninja for a job is to POST A MISSION with your requirements, let the Tower decide the rank (C, B, A or whatever), and see who responds. You're not going to get Tsunade like this, but on the other hand you might get ninja that Hazou isn't personally familiar with but that have key skills. Benefits are:
a. Simplifies discussion for writing purposes.
b. Allows QMs to have more choice in who accepts the assignment.
c. Works within village system for how missions are "supposed to be assigned".

2. Instead of specific people, put in suggestions on needed skill sets: Social, Investigate, ability to search a wide area.

Once recruited, Hazō, Akane, Haru and the others head to Todoroki Shrine.

1. Suggest that you use the word count preserved from talking about recruiting ninjas to go into more detail here.

2. Are both Akane and Haru needed on this mission?

3. Should provide a better approach for the QMs. Suggestions:
a. One or more members of a group disguises as a merchant while the others are ninja bodyguards. This may help get info from general public that they won't talk to ninjas about.
b. Leverage information on the Shrine as a religious institution in some manner?
c. Request QMs to spend a Fate Point on Hazou's Consequence (which remains an Aspect) that gives him some nudge/feeling on if a summoning scroll is in the vicinity.

Can you please let me know if you read this? Nothing more discouraging an an extended commentary that doesn't get a reply.
 
I really would prefer to go after the Otter scroll. Expecially since EJ keeps not-so-subtly hinting that it is the best option via Hazou-thoughts. Or at least that's how I'm reading that.

I suppose we can wait for that one, though.
 
faflec said:
And I agree that if we went on a mission to hunt down and kill a rival Summoner for their scroll, not having strong backup would be an issue. But my counterargument is that we aren't going on this sort of mission; our goal is to find a scroll whose owner is dead, and we are specifically targeting scrolls with this in mind.
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Our goal is to find a scroll that as far as we know don't have a owner or isn't guarded by anyone. One of the constant in warfare is that we will unexpectedly encounter things that we won't like.

And since everyone is heavily incentivized to be looking for scrolls, or listening to assets for sign of interaction with ninja, we may find ourselves in a life and death situation.

Which makes me wonder why the heck are we taking Hazo on a mission especially when his stats currently make him a liability in combat?
 
Briefvoice said:
A couple of comments:

Meet with Ebisu. Get the results of his training.

1. Rather than having Ebisu verbally communicate the results of his training, why not ask him to have his students conduct a demonstration of what they have learned? This fulfills a couple of goals:
a. Prevents Ebisu from shading results in one direction or another out of pride or perfectionism.
b. Asuma or more likely one of Asuma's trusted agents can come see the results in person instead of reading a report.
c. More exciting scene for the QMs to write (VERY IMPORTANT)

Discuss with the clan: the Scroll Hunt.

1. You're spending a lot of word count on potentially recruiting other ninjas, but have you considered you're looking at this the wrong way by talking in terms of personal relationships? The best way to recruit ninja for a job is to POST A MISSION with your requirements, let the Tower decide the rank (C, B, A or whatever), and see who responds. You're not going to get Tsunade like this, but on the other hand you might get ninja that Hazou isn't personally familiar with but that have key skills. Benefits are:
a. Simplifies discussion for writing purposes.
b. Allows QMs to have more choice in who accepts the assignment.
c. Works within village system for how missions are "supposed to be assigned".

2. Instead of specific people, put in suggestions on needed skill sets: Social, Investigate, ability to search a wide area.

Once recruited, Hazō, Akane, Haru and the others head to Todoroki Shrine.

1. Suggest that you use the word count preserved from talking about recruiting ninjas to go into more detail here.

2. Are both Akane and Haru needed on this mission?

3. Should provide a better approach for the QMs. Suggestions:
a. One or more members of a group disguises as a merchant while the others are ninja bodyguards. This may help get info from general public that they won't talk to ninjas about.
b. Leverage information on the Shrine as a religious institution in some manner?
c. Request QMs to spend a Fate Point on Hazou's Consequence (which remains an Aspect) that gives him some nudge/feeling on if a summoning scroll is in the vicinity.

Can you please let me know if you read this? Nothing more discouraging an an extended commentary that doesn't get a reply.
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Will be looking into implementing some of these ideas
Byzantine said:
eally would prefer to go after the Otter scroll. Expecially since EJ keeps not-so-subtly hinting that it is the best option via Hazou-thoughts. Or at least that's how I'm reading that.

I suppose we can wait for that one, though.
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Otters would be great. Unfortunately our current lead is wonder the desert till we get lucky. Not really an optimal path.
Kiba said:
Our goal is to find a scroll that as far as we know don't have a owner or isn't guarded by anyone. One of the constant in warfare is that we will unexpectedly encounter things that we won't like.

And since everyone is heavily incentivized to be looking for scrolls, or listening to assets for sign of interaction with ninja, we may find ourselves in a life and death situation.

Which makes me wonder why the heck are we taking Hazo on a mission especially when his stats currently make him a liability in combat?
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Because we aren't going to expose ourselves to anything that could risk combat. If another ninja is is going after the scroll or pulling an op in the area we just leave. We don't need to expose ourselves to risk because we have 4 more opportunities to take
 
faflec said:
A more interesting target is Naruto, who is even farther into hostile territory than we would be, and who is arguably far more dangerous in the foreseeable future.
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There is nothing "interesting" about Naruto, he's currently one of the strongest, if not THE strongest S-Ranker alive, any attack against him require overwhelming forces and is liable to sustain massive losses. S-Ranker are S-Ranker for a reason, the same reason Jiraya could go left and right as a Spymaster, you don't engage an S-ranker unless you're ready to sustain losses or have overwhelming advantages (Mist vs Leaf battle with Skywalkers). We on the other hand are chunin, the risk vs reward situation are completely different.


Oneiros said:
Except both Kagome and Hazō have been out of the village and ran missions in other countries since skywalkers got revealed. Asuma was even willing to let Kagome go on a mission just to keep him happy. So risk is negligible
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When? Kagome went on a mission in which secrecy was paramount, with the express order to leave everyone behind and ran away the second it was needed, it was also an infiltration mission that made heavy use of skywalker exactly to not be found.
Hazo as far as i remember never went really far without Naruto,(especially now that Leaf is relatively weak and other villages know it).
I mean, if the answer is "We recognize the risk and planned accordingly" fine,it's a conclusion i can understand, but the answer i saw are "No,you're wrong and those risk don't exist, so we're just going to pack our bags and go in one plan".
I would like to note i'm not criticizing the entire plan, just the hurry and the lack of precautions
 
Oneiros said:
Because we aren't going to expose ourselves to anything that could risk combat. If another ninja is is going after the scroll or pulling an op in the area we just leave. We don't need to expose ourselves to risk because we have 4 more opportunities to take
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I don't care about what we do when we knew that hostiles are in territory and have an escape route. That's not what I am worried about.

I am talking about when shit hit the fan. We can't retreat, because it's already too late.
 
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I would like to suggest that, for plans covering a significant amount of time such as a week, that the following line be added:
Eaglejarl has expressed that he's tentatively okay with linking to a post containing the full methodology of something as long as it's not being used to circumvent wordcount limitations (i.e. methology and reasoning, but not action):
eaglejarl said:
I'm cautiously open to the idea so long as it isn't abused to get around wordcount limits. I don't have a good definition of what that means but one examples would be that linked explanation should be philosophy, explication, and methodology. Not action. I'm sure there's other stuff but it would be "reasonable person" standard.
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This is a bit of a slow-burn project because we want Hazou to spend a fair amount of time refining the ideas before publication, but now's a good time to start.
 
Oneiros said:
Otters would be great. Unfortunately our current lead is wonder the desert till we get lucky. Not really an optimal path.
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I mean, our Pangolin lead wasn't really any better.

Part of the reason I suspect Otter is best is because no one else has been looking for it for a very long time.

Perhaps we should try to contact the Otters ourselves to see if they can narrow the area down, if any had been with him around the time he died.
 
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Oneiros said:
what precautions would you suggest we take? Willing to implement ideas
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Some require time, other less, i will just write the ones i find useful regardless
  • Use Shadow Clone to obfuscate our absence(Leave a SC, fake being sick and then dispel it, hoping it will be enough to confuse possible spies)
  • Recruit a S-ranker before deciding what do to(having a S-ranker or not changes how we approach the mission and how stealthy we want to be)
  • Coordinate with Asuma to make sure Leaf can support us in our mission
  • Talk in thread about possible countermeasure against an S-Ranker/Jonin(Do we have a plan if that happens?)
  • Receive Asuma permission to use Skywalker to move without being noticed
  • Waiting we are in top shape to try the mission(Risky, The window of opportunity could close for some scroll,i admit).

This just on the top of my head
 
Oneiros said:
However, an elite social-spec might manage to negotiate for powerful jutsu/summoning contracts in exchange for moderating Pangolin aggression or (clandestinely) providing Conjura resources.
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I don't think the "elite social-spec" part is super important here, but rather: What can we (Leaf or Goketsu) actually offer?

How do we moderate Pangolin aggression? We do need to actually talk with the Pangolin at some point, what do we give them?

Mari doesn't know much about the Condor or any other summoning clan for that matter, the best she can currently accomplish is that Conjura isn't immediately going to kill her and be a somewhat safe bridge for any kind of communication between both clans, which might be enough, or not.

And Secretly supporting the Condors would put Mari and Keiko in conflict, not something Mari would want or approve.

I think we need to prepare some better arguments for Asuma, Mari, Conjura and possible Pantsa to go along with this. Because right now the Pangolin might just pay Keiko and Asuma with ninjutsu to keep the scroll unused. Asuma will probably just go along with it if all of Leaf just gets access to some nice new ninjutsu. (Asuma: "Oh hey bioterrorism, neat")

We can try to make the other nearby Clans to arrange some kind of peace talk, but the Pangolin aren't going to be happy about that either.
 
Lord Marshal said:
Some require time, other less, i will just write the ones i find useful regardless
  • Use Shadow Clone to obfuscate our absence(Leave a SC, fake being sick and then dispel it, hoping it will be enough to confuse possible spies)
  • Recruit a S-ranker before deciding what do to(having a S-ranker or not changes how we approach the mission and how stealthy we want to be)
  • Coordinate with Asuma to make sure Leaf can support us in our mission
  • Talk in thread about possible countermeasure against an S-Ranker/Jonin(Do we have a plan if that happens?)
  • Receive Asuma permission to use Skywalker to move without being noticed
  • Waiting we are in top shape to try the mission(Risky, The window of opportunity could close for some scroll,i admit).
This just on the top of my head
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1. Not allowed to use Shadow Clone on our own yet.

2. "S-Ranker" is Naruto, Tsunade, or Orochimaru. Naruto is busy, Tsunade has better things to do, and... well do I need say why O is a bad idea? We can't hide behind S-rankers every time we want to do something.

3. What kind of 'support' do you want from the village?

4. It's kind of hard to have a generic anti-jonin plan. It's really going to depend on specific circumstances of the encounter; from how far away we see them coming, etc.

5. What about the mission requires that level of stealth? In fact, it's the opposite- successful completion of the mission requires openly coming out to talk to people and gather information.

6. I admit, it's a bit annoying how Major Consequences just get applied as a penalty to every single activity no matter what. That's not how I understood the system to work. I thought there was discretion about whether a particular activity/roll would get the penalty on a case-by-case basis.
 
Briefvoice said:
a. One or more members of a group disguises as a merchant while the others are ninja bodyguards. This may help get info from general public that they won't talk to ninjas about.
b. Leverage information on the Shrine as a religious institution in some manner?
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Briefvoice said:
1. Rather than having Ebisu verbally communicate the results of his training, why not ask him to have his students conduct a demonstration of what they have learned? This fulfills a couple of goals:
a. Prevents Ebisu from shading results in one direction or another out of pride or perfectionism.
b. Asuma or more likely one of Asuma's trusted agents can come see the results in person instead of reading a report.
c. More exciting scene for the QMs to write (VERY IMPORTANT)
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Implemented these suggestions
 
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