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[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.

[X] Plan Fields of Gold

[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.

Revoting so we focus on just the golden boys.
 
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[X] Take an active hand in the EIC


[X] Plan Fields of Gold
-[X] Recruit Maximilian
-[X] Recruit Johann


[X] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.

[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
 
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
 
[X] Plan Fields of Gold

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.

[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
 
It could be people are concerned about him going "Nah, don't have to do what you say" and ignoring Mathilde.
That part is wholly unfounded in its concerns though. We're not just Mathilde Weber, Court Wizard of Karak Eight Peaks. We're Mathilde Weber, Magister of Grey Order whose 'sword of judgement' is as just about as tall as she is. Ignoring a nominal superior is one thing but ignoring a watchdog given orders to rein him in is quite another.

To be sure, I trust Johann to not fuck up dealing with warpstone and other Skaven related tech shenanigans. He is his own character in this Quest and kitted out with all the right tools for the job... but given the fact that we're the Court Wizard, we do need to ensure that other Wizards do fall in line, at the very least to present a good face to the dwarven hosts... and at the very most because warpstone failure shenanigans is just terrible for everyone involved.
 
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.

[X] Plan 2 wizards
-[x] Recruit Panoramia
-[x] Recruit Maximilian
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
 
Actually yes safer than using less magic, being a warrior priest of Sigmar for instance is a lot safer on a battlefield than being just a knight with no ability to smite your enemies.
I said less magic not no magic. This in the context of casting battle magic - something with an inherent risk of disaster even with all mitigating steps taken - and trying to ride the tiger that is direct divine intervention. If you can solve the problem with lower magnitude spells and some extra effort sneaking/fighting/lying do that. If you can dispose of a massive discharge of power by earthing it because you've practised that and are carrying the right equipment, do that rather than escalating and channelling the power through yourself.
 
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

[X] Plan 2 wizards

[X] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
 
Think my main gripe with the current vote is how the Amberlings get summarily dismissed.

While Eight Peaks has a lot of scouting units, high mobility and flight capable scouts qualified to understand and interpret magical events from ordinary weirdness are invaluable for finding weird shit on our own initiative rather than waiting for Rangers to report in.
 
Think my main gripe with the current vote is how the Amberlings get summarily dismissed.

While Eight Peaks has a lot of scouting units, high mobility and flight capable scouts qualified to understand and interpret magical events from ordinary weirdness are invaluable for finding weird shit on our own initiative rather than waiting for Rangers to report in.

Max was a great paper-writer so far, we want to keep tabs on Johann + Magister is a very very useful asset, Panoramia...well she is actually better off helping halflings feed everyone, I suppose....
But I think two goldies are a lock-in, and w/o Collegiate we aint picking a third wizard (or two, as is the case with Ambers).
 
I said less magic not no magic. This in the context of casting battle magic - something with an inherent risk of disaster even with all mitigating steps taken - and trying to ride the tiger that is direct divine intervention. If you can solve the problem with lower magnitude spells and some extra effort sneaking/fighting/lying do that. If you can dispose of a massive discharge of power by earthing it because you've practised that and are carrying the right equipment, do that rather than escalating and channelling the power through yourself.

I really doubt we are getting an on call god, so that's not likely to be a concern.
 
Think my main gripe with the current vote is how the Amberlings get summarily dismissed.

While Eight Peaks has a lot of scouting units, high mobility and flight capable scouts qualified to understand and interpret magical events from ordinary weirdness are invaluable for finding weird shit on our own initiative rather than waiting for Rangers to report in.

If we lock them in here, they definitely won't be able to go on murderous lionbird adventures. That would be super cruel.
 
[X] Plan 2 wizards

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.

[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
 
We already have Waaaghbane, and I suspect we'd be fighting Orc Shamans before having to face off against a Skaven Grey Seer. So yes, I don't see the urgency of taking Magical Duelists, when we already have Waaaghbane and would likely get the next shot at Magical Duelist through Waaaghbane. Now, if the Head Ranger vote won, or the Assassin trait was in the lead, my position might change. But I think Waaaghbane +20 is likely going to suffice for the next few turns.

Fair enough, but I don't recall how often we get to choose or upgrade traits. I feel like we'll be waiting more than a few turns, though.
 
Max was a great paper-writer so far, we want to keep tabs on Johann + Magister is a very very useful asset, Panoramia...well she is actually better off helping halflings feed everyone, I suppose....
But I think two goldies are a lock-in, and w/o Collegiate we aint picking a third wizard (or two, as is the case with Ambers).
They're all journeymen and above, with their own interests. They'll get on with things. We don't have to direct all of them in a turn. We get more control in an action efficient manner with collegiate but usually if we want to get assistance from another wizard it will be a particular one for a particular purpose.

That said, I just voted for the ambers and Johann myself. The ambers will leave once they're done with the spiders unless we recruit them and we don't have seniority over Johann unless we assert that he comes under authority of learning advisor. They're all doing research type activity where we'll want reports too. Max and Panoramia will stick around and be available if we need them either way but their main jobs shouldn't need them reporting to us.
 
[X] Plan Fields of Gold

If thread suspicion of Johann is justified, we need to be keeping an eye on him. If it's not, having another Magister on staff will just be incredibly helpful.
 
The one I'm most interested in is Dreng, Marshal of K8P. Wanderer turned Royal Bodyguard turned Marshal is an interesting career path.

I assume his Martial is ridiculous.
 
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Infiltrator: Nobody seems to guard anything well enough to keep you out. +2 Intrigue, +10 bonus to infiltration.

[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.

[X] Return it with your thanks to the Bright College. +2 College Favour.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[X] Donate it to the Winter Wolves of Ulrikadrin.
 
I dunno, I'd still think twice before going for a priest not of one of the three major ancestor gods. Especially Valaya, as she is the founder of k8p.
Keeping in mind Belegar personally trusts him overriding Kragg even.

Thats kind of significant.
Also while Belegar will of course be restoring shrines for the three major gods, his biggest URGENT concern spiritually speaking is that there might be defiled dwarf tombs and remains that need to be returned to where they belong. Greenskins do like using remains as trophies.

That and remember the bigass tomb he built in Lhune housing all the dead of the reclaimation expedition. Theres thousands of human and dwarf dead in there. And a bit of a spiritual conundrum(though I dare say fewer bodies have been stolen from dwarf tombs than Morrite Gardens by necromancers)
He was going to be a normal character that just fits the role of bog standard generic priest of Gazul. Then he critted with a natural 100 as his first on screen appearance. Per word of god if something like that happens the character gets bumped up a bit. So Gunnar is now if not a hero tier character then at least approaching it.
We can bond over 'Screw vampires, necromancers and vampire necromancers'!
The Amber Wizards are going to leave if we don't take command of them. The Amber Wizards are debatebly worthwhile but they have a lot of overlap with our rangers. If we're just having them go around scouting and such it might not be worth the actions to keep them around.
Magical, flight capable scouting. Theres a fair chunk of regular garden variety weirdness that'd be much easier to deal eith if we had a mounted response team that can check it out and identify if it would take a Magister to fix.
Addendum: I am not precisely sure how actively working on empowering a local monopoly will mesh with Vows. It probably can be alright if we ensure it's working purely for benefit of Empire, but I think us taking a personal care to empower it makes it a harder line to toe.
BoneyM clarified this. Monopolies are just regular business in the Empire. The thing to watch for is their becoming malicious monopolies breaking good Imperial Citizens for profit.
Then either take Collegiate so that adding another journeymanling does not take up extra action (with two already managed it'd be exactly 3 wizards, so 1 action) or take up 3 wizards right now, so that that adding 4th will take up 2 actions in total.
edit: Delegation is an action-saver, but management costs action too! Hence why Collegiate is a trait choice at all.
Useful point: sub-delegation is the answer. Once we get a respectable setup we can assign Journeymen under Magister subordinates to save actions.

Directly managing more than 4-6 minions is madness.
[X] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.

It's Empires primary religion. This is a powerful flaw that needs fixing. Sure, the other traits are very nice, and this one give paltry +1 Piety, but don't expect to get rid of this potentially crippling flaw in the future without a similar or greater cost.
For a powerful flaw it only really mattered three times all quest. And was not a major element for two of those(it'd have done a number on the Watch, but we lost control of it immediately after, it might have hurt relations with Roswita but she wanted us out of her sight ASAP)
My first instinct is to say 'yes', but I've got a funny feeling that if I allowed that it'll become one of those arguments that's repeated every turn like clockwork. So consider it locked in for at least a couple of years.
Personal proposal: the intent of the vote is that we should keep an eye on the EIC to make sure it stays on the level...which means that we should stay in an active position until we set up a reasonably reliable internal oversight department, are convinced that the corporate culture and credo has been carved deeply to prosper over profit, Wilhelmina's inheritance and the new shareholders are proven responsible parties, Stirland's state oversight is convincingly competent, or otherwise obtained a singularly controlling stake we could use to sweep other stakeholders aside.

I.e. once we've proven sufficiently to ourselves that we only need to drop in every 5 years or so.
@BoneyM I understand that no-one else seems bothered by this, so unless that situation greatly changes it'll be my last time requesting it, but;
Please, will you consider ranked voting for options we can only ever take once (marriage, adviser position, favour spending, etc)?
24 hours in which to vote, with vital clarifications coming at any point through that period, with many people voting straight after reading the update and never again, or not having time to catch up on the runaway thread and which way the required strategic position is swinging...
It's a lot of work, and there's a lot of possibility for unpleasant surprises that I think could be somewhat reduced if people were able to convey in their vote "I don't care between options 1 and 3, but 4 is awesome and I would not take 2 for love or money" and not have to spend more energy having their results reflect that.
Questwise, ranked voting has consistently proven inferior to approval voting with regards to accurately representing the voters.

This is because its, harder to understand, more tiring to vote, AND people usually only care about 1-2 options, the rest of the ranks are assigned based on 'that guy who posted above me'.

Approval voting is much more stable. If you are willing to see an option win, go for it. If you prefer one option strongly? Vote for it alone.

If you really want a given option to LOSE, thats shit outta luck, but thats part of the point. Approval voting focuses on what you want, not what you hate.
Because fighting other spellcasters isn't like grinding mobs in an RPG, and probably isn't supposed to be as easy as Mathilde makes it look. A lot of Come to think of it, ALL our counter-casting domination so far has been at the whim of the dice (that basically gave us hilariously incompetent or terribly unlucky opponents); that one time we would've eaten an 'Eadbutt was after we got that rune belt.

There's always a bigger fish, and there's no guarantee she'll get another stab at Magical Duellist before meeting her match. In the meantime, I'd much rather have another layer of extra insurance.
Eh, just T pose over greenskin shamans.

The big problem with the reasoning is that: The Eight Peaks area only has one remotely common type of hostile spellcaster - greenskin shaman. Skaven spellcasters are important enough to only see one badass hero and no more. No necromancers in the area. Trolls don't cast. Too far south and too far from the coast to see Norscans. Too little forest to see Beastmen. We have a trait which gives a large advantage over the local casters.

Its not about being better safe than sorry here. We already have twice the bonus. Thrice if you include our Learning being significantly better than most Greenskins. And we have a powerful magic item specifically to cover for when we fail to dispel.
 
They're all journeymen and above, with their own interests. They'll get on with things. We don't have to direct all of them in a turn. We get more control in an action efficient manner with collegiate but usually if we want to get assistance from another wizard it will be a particular one for a particular purpose.

That said, I just voted for the ambers and Johann myself. The ambers will leave once they're done with the spiders unless we recruit them and we don't have seniority over Johann unless we assert that he comes under authority of learning advisor. They're all doing research type activity where we'll want reports too. Max and Panoramia will stick around and be available if we need them either way but their main jobs shouldn't need them reporting to us.

Ambers like hanging out with Taalites too, they probably will feel a bit lonely w/o them? But idk.
I mean, recruiting wizards just means that we are getting them as our underlings. It makes sense to not do it if we think they are going to do useful stuff anyway?
Idk, I just think we should keep an eye on Johann and impose on Max a bit to get him to help us with papers and whatnot.
Panoramia is great but she is probably going to do the most good right where she is.

Ambers...well, I can see the case for them being useful here. But, again, we can only control two with 1 action, unless we take Catlegiate.
 
Think my main gripe with the current vote is how the Amberlings get summarily dismissed.

While Eight Peaks has a lot of scouting units, high mobility and flight capable scouts qualified to understand and interpret magical events from ordinary weirdness are invaluable for finding weird shit on our own initiative rather than waiting for Rangers to report in.
I'm pretty sure demigryphs are essentially wingless gryphons, from the art I've seen. The wiki describes them as "Head of eagle, body of lion." So, not flight-capable, although still high-mobility.

Edited for updated vote in later post.

Reasoning: I want to keep an eye on the EIC, and possibly nudge Wilhelmina towards selecting an heir for her shares who is more inclined towards enlightened self-interest, at least. Also, gives more of a chance to keep in touch with Anton.
The Undumgi could very much use the torc, more than the knights, and I would like to see it in use. Preferably make it part of the regalia for the Undumgi's field general, or whatever the position will be called.
Avatar doesn't really excite me, but I do like Windsage, and I think both Collegiate and Magical Duelist could be very useful.

@BoneyM
As regards the recruiting... I'm not sure exactly what it would mean to not be managing the Journeymanlings - does that basically mean they may still be around, but are doing their own thing and not considered under Mathilde's authority?
 
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Correct. They'd be once more Journeying freely, though only the Ambers are likely to leave in the medium term.
Would it be possible to get the ones staying long-term in K8P under Mathilde's authority later on? Or, contrariwise, would it be acceptable to recruit one, (for example, Panoramia), but most of the time not actively manage them, letting them do their own thing?
 
If you really want a given option to LOSE, thats shit outta luck, but thats part of the point. Approval voting focuses on what you want, not what you hate.
Not really. A negative vote can be accomplished by voting for everything else that isn't that option.

Non-strategic approval voting works like a threshold: basically you find the worst option you are willing to support, then vote for it and everything above it (equivalently, find the best option you won't support, then vote for everything above that.)
 
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